Lure--Prof Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Jim, and others using Dicknite's Topcoat:See my post #11 for preserving dicknites. Using a bottle with a neck like a salad dressing bottle will also help as it restricts atmosphere transfer by reducing the contact surface. The ony way regular Createx does not work when topcoating with Dicknite's is when the Createx is insufficiently heat-set! I wanted to emphasize this point because this is the number one problem builders have when using Dicknite's and Createx together the first time. I don't use Auto-air, so I cannot speak for problems one may encounter with it. I brush on my Dicknite's topcoat with a 1/4 to 1/2 inch artist's camel-hair brush: this way I can control the amount of product on the lure, and not have it run on the lip. It only takes a few strokes and a very short amount of time to apply the topcoat like this. It is quite different than applying epoxy. With Dicknite's, brush slowly using a minimum of strokes, DO NOT OVERBRUSH! With practice you will be using fewer and fewer brush strokes--when you cover an area you are done with it, continued brushing will just mess it up! There are other application methods with which many members are quite successful, and some of the methods are use over paints other than Createx. But the above is the method I use and it works for me, and has for a couple of years now. :yay:Thanks Pete for providing the additional information via the instruction sheet for what is obviously the same product! Dean I just wanted to edit and add to an earlier mis-wording I made earlier,i.e., "when using Createx for the first time ", should be "when using Dicknite's and createx together the first time". Sorry for the miscue, Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted April 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Clamboni, I meant to ask in my last post ( damn my old, feeble mind ) can you give me some info on the uv paint you mention? Sounds like something I would like to try. Tired of melting crayons to put in airbrush .Thanks David I don't have any of the paint, just the topcoat. I can't really say how it compares to the regular stuff because I jsut started using them both. It's only been two days, but it seems to be curing the same. This crankbait is only Createx pearl white with Createx black back. Then a misting of pearl white over the black. You can see a blue/purple hue mostly over the black. In low light inside, the topcoat looks clear, but it flouresces outside. Just like a clear/blue flourescent fishing line. Same color, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotorhead Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I have tried several types of clear coating but not Dick Nites clear. Is it sold by Dick Blicks Art supply Thanks Rotorhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotorhead Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I have tried this type of coating. Can Dick Nite Clear be purchased at Dick Blick Art Supplies Thanks Rotorhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bemidjibasser Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Go to the DN site through TU and you will get a discount on products. I ordered a pint and it was a lot cheaper than going directly through the DN site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTfishingrods Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Rotorhead, Click on the link to Dick nites on this site and look at the price break he is giving the members. I would say take advantage of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Bass Baits Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Thanks Bob and Dean, Yes I know what went rong with DN in the jars/can, my own fault. But I have painted over 100 lures and once in awhile I get the crack paint when brushing DN, I just tried Auto air pearl white because it was sent to me as the wrong item, I really like the auto air compared to createx but now I have the paint eating problem. No problem with 2T with it. Only auto air pearl white is being eaten, I have other colors of auto air that is does not affect. I even let it sit for a few day's and it still did it. I cleared the bait with createx clear and it still did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted April 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 (edited) Dean, Do you reuse your brushes? If so, I'm assuming you use acetone to clean.........I haven't been able to get mine back into decent condition. I've been using nylon bristle brushes, though, and not camel hair like you. That's what I'd been using for devcon and have a few left. I couldn't keep the natural hair brushes from shedding bristles no matter what I did. Also, how many uses do you generally get out of a brush before it's shot? Jim, are you heatsetting? I remember Dean saying quite a few times that if you don't heatset createx thoroughly you'll destroy it most of the time, not matter how long you let it sit. I personally have always used the hair dryer after every coat, but only to speed drying. I haven't had a problem with not heatsetting any longer than it takes for the paint to dry........then again I've only coated 3 baits so far. And on another note, With the UV activated stuff, I don't think I'll personally use it as a full topcoat, but have been imagining using it only to add effect to some parts of a bait, like masking off lines or spraying it in a scale pattern, doing only the belly or back of a bait.........stripes on a bluegill, or using it then painting over top of it........Reverse scale pattern would probably be pretty cool. Edited April 10, 2008 by clamboni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Bass Baits Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Clam, no I do not heat set, I never had too before. have I tried the heat set, yes, recently, no. Seeing I finally tried the D2T I really like what it does to the lure so I probably will not quit using it, I am coating over the D2T with DN now for my second coat, Does anyone think I should put another coat of DN on it as well or will 1 coat of each be enough to make it very durable ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lure--Prof Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 The ony way regular Createx does not work when topcoating with Dicknite's is when the Createx is insufficiently heat-set! Jim, I guessed you missed this in my previous posts; this is in regards to using Dicknite's topcoat over Createx. It means that if you DO NOT heat set Createx, there is NO WAY that Dicknite's will work over top of it. It also means that if you DO heat set your Createx enough, that Dicknite's will work over regular Createx 100% of the time. If I'm not being clear on this, pm me and I will explain further. And yes, you can use Dicknite's over any Epoxy and it will work okay. I really think that it would be to your advantage to lock on to one system of components that are known to work, and work out one problem at a time with it until you have it right, rather than constantly switching different components and application methods and introducing new variables and problems with each change you make. There is a learning curve with every system, and if you change methods and products each time you run into a problem, you aren't going to learn that curve that makes every clear coat work. There is no "magic bullet" out there yet. I hope this helps. Good luck! Clamboni, I've used a variety of camel hair brushes, and the hair can be a problem, but you can really minimize it to a "very seldom" kind of thing. The last brushes I bought were 1/4 inch Torringtons, which fan out larger than some of the other 1/2 inch brushes I've used. Before I first use a brush, I gently pull on the bristles over and over until I feel I've gotten all the loose hairs. I clean them in a can-bottom puddle of rubbing alcohol immediately upon finishing, dabbing the brush and changing the alcohol unil it remains clear, then i take it to the sink and rinse it in a little dish soap and water. It is okay to not get 100% ofthe coating out of the very top of the bristles where they are crimped--this works to lock in the rest of the bristles so that you almost never drop another one. I ordered the bristles from the same fly rod component shop in PA that I got the Bloxygen from--these brushes have become my favorites, but many others will do the job too. Holler at me if ya need that address and I'll dig it up, no problem. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Bass Baits Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Hey Dean, I do not heat set my createx and very rarely run into this problem. Talking createx and auto air might be getting confused ? The auto air is what I am having trouble with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lure--Prof Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Jim you said you cleared the bait with Createx clear and still had the problem, which I took to mean that you used Createx clear over the Auto-air, as using Createx clear over Dicknite-incompatible paints has been discussed here many times. If this is what you did, then the Createx needs to be heat-set. If you don't thoroughly heat-set regular Createx and try to use Dicknite's topcoat over it you will have problems just like all the other people who run into this same problem. I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, I'm just trying to be clear on this clearcoat situation. Clamboni, Oxhair Brushes - Medium: Golden Witch These are oxhair brushes, the medium size is what I use. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Bass Baits Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 LOL, Ya that is right, I did try the createx top coat and it still did it. I did heat set one of them but maybe not enough ? Just for the record I do not heat set createx and very very rarely have this problem, it is with the auto air that is every bait out of 4 that did this. I have done 10 yesterday and today with D2T and then one coat of DN with no problems so far but I know it is just a matter of time when I start cussing again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KcDano Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Auto Air might not like a componet of the DN. Lacquer clear is iffy over Auto Air. But a urethane shouldn't present any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMAXX Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) LOL,Ya that is right, I did try the createx top coat and it still did it. I did heat set one of them but maybe not enough ? Just for the record I do not heat set createx and very very rarely have this problem, it is with the auto air that is every bait out of 4 that did this. I have done 10 yesterday and today with D2T and then one coat of DN with no problems so far but I know it is just a matter of time when I start cussing again. Jim I spray about 80% auto air and 100% DN and with heat setting I've seen very little wrinkling, just an occasional bait here and there Edited April 11, 2008 by VMAXX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Bass Baits Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Hi VMaxx, Even with Auto air pearl white you do not get this problem ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMAXX Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Every once and awhile I might but I'm guessng here that since it's pearl white your using it for overall on the body of the bait and it seems when I did have this problem it was from putting excess paint on the lure(like Bob P said) try lighter coats and heat set them all....I know its kinda a pain heat setting every coat but the wrinkles tend to ruin a good paint job:teef: Hope this helps Stacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 Some paints work better with DN than others. I haven't had problems with any Createx or Translatex color, nor any of the cheapo hobby acrylics like Apple Barrel. But I had a problem today with DN over Wasco Wildlife Stone Gray. 3 identical baits painted with Createx came out just fine. The DN took abnormally long to harden on the Wasco bait but eventually seemed OK after 24 hrs. I decided to refinish the baits today after making some performance mods and lightly sanded them before repainting. When I wiped the baits with some denatured alcohol to remove sanding dust, the Wasco bait became very tacky while the Createx baits stayed hard and smooth. So I'm now leery about using Wasco Wildlife Colors under DN. I vaguely remember a few other TU'ers having wrinkling problems with Wasco and DN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMAXX Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 I've had some similar problems Bob but it's been from can to can of D/N, one can has performed flawlessly with the paint I use,then maybe the next can might have a tendency to eat into the paint somewhat. Don't get me wrong I love D/N and don't use anything else however I've wondered if sometimes the can I have maybe a little fresher or have a higher solvent content than the last can? But overall for me it performs the best even with the few small problems I've run into Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted May 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Bringing up an old thread here, but I had to add that I just started spraying it. I though it looked good before but the finish I'm getting now blows the brushed finish away. The problem I was having brushing it is that just about every one I've done so far I miss little spots with the second coat. Was having trouble getting it brushed on really evenly, too. No pics of anything I've done yet, unfortunately, I didn't really paint anything worthwhile, just a few more jann's crankbaits. Just painted bodies I wouldn't sell or use to see how the sprayed topcoat would be. For the other guys spraying it........how many coats do you use, and how long apart? I'd assume you need more than the 2 or 3 most guys use dipping or brushing. Now I just have to finally get my booth set up right so I can start spraying it inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lure--Prof Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Some paints work better with DN than others. I haven't had problems with any Createx or Translatex color, nor any of the cheapo hobby acrylics like Apple Barrel. But I had a problem today with DN over Wasco Wildlife Stone Gray. 3 identical baits painted with Createx came out just fine. The DN took abnormally long to harden on the Wasco bait but eventually seemed OK after 24 hrs. I decided to refinish the baits today after making some performance mods and lightly sanded them before repainting. When I wiped the baits with some denatured alcohol to remove sanding dust, the Wasco bait became very tacky while the Createx baits stayed hard and smooth. So I'm now leery about using Wasco Wildlife Colors under DN. I vaguely remember a few other TU'ers having wrinkling problems with Wasco and DN. You hit the nail on the head Bob, concerning the compatibility of Dicknite's topcoat with the above paintsIf you're gooing to use Wasco and DN together then a "buffer" clearcoat of some kind that is compatible with both DN and Wasco must be used on top of the Wasco to avoid problems. Of course the simplest thing to do is simply not use Wasco with Dicknites. I've sprayed Dicknite's but still prefer brushing it for my small lure quantities. An advantage for me is not having to mask the diving lips for my final coats as I would have to do when spraying. A few tricks taught me by Experience have reallly smoothed out my brushing procedure. #1, is using Bloxygen Leftover Finish Preserver, which keeps my DN fresh as a daisy. Not only does it simply save your finish, but by keeping it fresh, it does not thicken, making it much easier to brush, And #2, is the application brush itself. After experimenting with several natural bristle brushes, I tried a 1/4 inch #105 Torrington, which is a soft ox-hair brush, and is bigger than some 1/2 inch brushes I've used--anyway, with a few slow smooth strokes, it covers a bait evenly, bubble-free, and very quickly. After the first coat, simply check for complete coverage beneath a light while slowly turning the bait. I clean my brush in rubbing alcohol. The brush just fits through the top of my 1/2 ounce Testor's mixing jars, BTW. Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benton B Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 A side note WASCO doesn't make Wildlife colors (Smith paint), WASCO's brand is polytranspar. I find it odd that the DN clear coat is having compatability problems with Wildlife colors. This is by far the best water based paint that I have used. That just means now I have no choice but to stick with D2T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 benton, I don't use DN, but wouldn't spraying a coat of Createx clear over the paint job before you use the DN protect the paint, since, from what I've read, Createx has no problems when you coat it with DN? Sorry for the run-on sentence. Too much coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomah21 Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Dont mean to get of subject but someone brought up purchasing DN through the tu site (or a link of some sort) I am having a issue locating that....any help thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlcam Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Dont mean to get of subject but someone brought up purchasing DN through the tu site (or a link of some sort) I am having a issue locating that....any help thanks When you go to hardbait section there should be an advertising banner at the top of the page,click there and it will take you to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
