jcb19983 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 I am buying an iwata airbrush from merriartist.com and i cant decide on an the airbrush i am going to buy. The hi-line hp-ch or the hpc plus, the hi-line has the mac valve but that looks like it would be really hard to understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTfishingrods Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 Heres what Tackle Making .com says. TackleMaking.com - Airbrush Buying Guide for Lure Makers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 I have the hi line hp-ch. The valve on it helped me learn the art alot faster than any other could provide, in my mind. The control you have with out veteran experience is incredible. I have not used the plus, but will not traid my hp-ch for any other brush. Good luck and I think you have a hard choice for you. Easy choice for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjbass Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 (edited) There is no one brush that will do it all, but if you can spend the money you can get close. The Custom Micron cmc plus is about as perfect as it gets. I have been airbrushing for years and have owned just about every make of gun out there. Nothing even comes close to this gun. We own 8 Iwata brushes and they are all good, but the two Custom Microns get the most use. They also have the MAC valve, and really it is not hard to understand it just gives you more control. They are super easy to clean, easy to adjust, easy to change colors and will definitely make you better. I saw one for $315 on ebay which is better than the $365 price anywhere else. JMHO Rod Edited April 15, 2008 by rjbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 I have the HPC plus, and had never airbrushed before, and I was able to paint almost immediately. I leave the main air pressure at 36-40psi, and use the needle flow control in the handle that regulates how much the needle valve is opened to adjust my paint flow, and to let me do finer lines. I am not an artist, and I'm not a very good painter, but my Iwata lets me paint my lures well enough to fool the fish, and make me happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6_feet_deep Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 ....but my Iwata lets me paint my lures well enough to fool the fish, and make me happy. It's really about what you want to get out of it I've found. If you just want to paint lures and catch fish then I've seen people use $25 siphon feeds or heck even cans and get great results. If you want to paint as a hobby and possibly a business, then it's good to go ahead and get a nice gun and learn on it. Get used to it...how it feels, how it sprays, it's little tricks and secrets. Good luck with whatever you go with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 The MAC valve on Iwata brushes is easy to understand. You twist it to vary the air pressure released into the brush. More detail requires lower pressure. MAC is just a convenience. You can also control pressure with a $15-20 valve connected to your compressor. The convenience comes by having the control immediately at hand on the brush instead of having to reach over to your compressor to change pressure settings. Since my compressor sits on the bench beside the painting area, that isn't much of an advantage. In fact, I like to see a pressure reading as I adjust it so it's more convenient for me to have that control on the compressor, right beside the pressure gauge also mounted there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Bob, How is the MAC valve different in practice from the needle adjusting feature on the back of my Iwata? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm really just trying to figure out if I should get off my duff and move my regulator closer to my brush, so I can fiddle with the pressure when I paint, instead of the paint needle. P.S. Isn't it fun when you write a post, use spellcheck, and it comes up no spelling errors? Almost like making a bait that works......NOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Iwata HP-BCS .50 mm tip. that is what I use. I dont like my expensive gun.. I used it 2 twice and put it back in the fancy case it came in.. but I might actually take RJ advice and check out the Micron... Since he has 8 Iwata.. and found something better... Thanks RJ.. NOW IM GOING TO SPEND 350 more DOLLARS!!! will I ever see a PROFIT!!! The ROOKIE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjbass Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 I have accepted the fact that there is no end to it...... Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Mark, that needle thingy on the back of an HP+ limits the amount of needle travel and hence the amount of paint fed into the mix chamber. An Iwata MAC valve limits the air pressure/volume. MY HP+ doesn't have a MAC so I turn down the pressure at the compressor when I want smaller lines (can't call them fine!) or fine shading. I suppose delicate control of downward trigger push has the same effect but my fine motor skills don't stretch that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6_feet_deep Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 ...so I turn down the pressure at the compressor when I want smaller lines (can't call them fine!) or fine shading. I suppose delicate control of downward trigger push has the same effect but my fine motor skills don't stretch that far. I second that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 (edited) I'll give my own experiences with using the MAC valve. I don't know how I lived without it now that I've used it for the past couple of years. It makes it so much easier to dial in just the right pressure to not only get fine details but also just to atomize the paint perfectly. I run my regulator pressure higher than I would normally and then dial the pressure down for painting. When it comes time to clean out the airbrush, I simply crank the MAC valve wide open and blast all the paint and crud out of the brush with the high pressure. Another great use of the MAC valve that I do is it is awesome for dialing down the pressure so that the paint just spits out when you rock the trigger back and forth. This creates all the tiny dots you see on some of my baits. The dots are commonly known as "stipple" and just by tweaking the MAC valve slightly you can get larger or smaller dots. That alone makes it worth the money for me. Having to change the regulator all the time is a pain and having access to the air pressure right at my finger tips makes my airbrushes far more user friendly. Edited April 20, 2008 by Snax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMAXX Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 I to had the same question about 5 months ago...anyway I went with the hi-line(w/mac) HP-C, now that I did it was worth the extra 30 dollars I spent over the non-mac gun. Go ahead and get it you'll be glad you did and it's not a complicated feature.The features SNAX mentioned are dead on:wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 (edited) This is what I use, I suppose it is an Iwata copy; it’s made in China and cost $36 NEW, on fleebay. I have had it for about 9 months now and had no trouble with it. I pulled it completely apart yesterday, for a good clean, and found it breaks right down to past the tip holder, so is the easiest brush I have ever had to do a spring clean on(I have 4 including a Iwata HP). It is a .2mm model ( thought it was .3) and I have sprayed a little thinner based lacquer (Propionate) through it, with no ill affects yet!!. I does not have a ceramic seal on the needle, so this may be a problem in the future. All the air/paint adjustments are really handy, compared to a standard brush, and the needle stop, with a bit of ‘souping’ up is a great feature. The only drama I have had with it, is a bent needle, which straightened O.K, it was my fault. I tried to fit the Iwata tip in it when I had it apart, and found they even use the same threads, so all in all I’m impressed- !! For the price, compared to Iwata Hp Plus @ $294 here, I can buy about 9 of these. Saying all this, if I was doing commercial lures I would spend the money on the Iwata. pete Edited April 20, 2008 by hazmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Pete, What's the name brand of the brush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMAXX Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 (edited) Pete,What's the name brand of the brush? Mark I think this is it if you run a search on ebay: Air Pro PS900 Dual Action MAC Airbrush Gun Kit Art NEW! Edited April 23, 2008 by VMAXX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatfingers Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 The Custom Micron CM-C Plus is a precision tool, sort of like a cell phone. You could function without one, but you'd never hit your true potential. It comes down to how seriously you want to approach this hobby and how far you want to go with it. Can you "get by" without one or one just like it? Yep. But you could say the same about a drying wheel, the number of colors you paint with, the use of epoxy, and a whole range of things we commonly use to build a quality bait that is not only productive but also esthetically pleasing to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 This is off fleebay Australia, I am in Kansas City at the moment and this does not appear on the US site, so try and follow this link - or maybe search Seller "Princess Trade" . pete http://cgi.#########.au/BRAND-NEW-DUAL-ACTION-AIR-BRUSH-W-MICRO-AIR-CONTROL_W0QQitemZ130216456819QQihZ003QQcategoryZ2594QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 (edited) Yep, it an Air Pro brush, here's a link to it on Ebay http://search.#########/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=Air+pro+airbrush&category0= For some reason, copying and pasting a url doesn't seem to work. Just go to Ebay and search on Air Pro airbrush. Edited April 24, 2008 by BobP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTfishingrods Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 (edited) I agree with Fatfingers completely, and I am usually one to go and buy the top of the line what ever I am going to need the first time. But, $400.00 for an airbrush if you are just starting into this in my opinion is not how I would go. I have no idea what your artistic abilities are or how long it will take you to achieve the level of craftsmanship that you see on this board or more importantly the level you want to achieve yourself. But it does not happen overnight. It does not even happen in 6 months to a year for most people. But then again only you know your abilitys. If your not artistic by nature, then you would be better off spending $100 on a descent airbrush and get lots of paint, lure bodies, epoxy, and whatever else you need to start practicing. That initial $400 dollar purchase could be stretched into a lot of practice and completed fishable (maybe not perfect) lures. If your lucky maybe a family member or friend will even buy them for the cost of materials (padded a bit of course) and your off to making more. Im not sure as a begginer I would go as low as the $30 one off ebay though. It looks like it would work, but it also looks like you need knowledge of airbrushs to bring it up to the standards needed to make it work for our hobby. Both badger and Iwata have brushes close to the $100 mark that should work just fine. I am not an expert on the different models though so I wont recomend a specific model. I will leave that up to everyone else. Edited April 24, 2008 by MTfishingrods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 (edited) I found an Iwata knockoff, a Master Airbrush, on Airbrush Depot, for $75 out the door. It had the MAC valve, a .025m tip, and looks just like the $400 Iwata. I haven't hooked it up yet. I'll let you know how it works when I have given it a test run. It does have a tip that's cut into four triangular sections. I'm very curious to see how that affects spray pattern. Edited April 24, 2008 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodfishsticks Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 Same brush as air pro-/airbrush city. seems their all jumping on this gun now. Price depends on how much they put in the box as far as goodies go.Airbrush city came with hose[a nice soft one] extra needles etc. air-pro you just get the gun.But if you ask they throw in a cheap 6'hose..I've found I just take the very tip off and they spray better, no spitting . only draw back is you need to be carefull you don't hit the needle tip on anything.It's taken me about two weeks to find how to adjust these guns to the different colors...they do like thinned paint better then right out of the bottle...very easy to clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boskabouter Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 (edited) It looks like that brush Hazmail showed us is sold under different brands. This is what I came across in Holland: http://www.bullishop.nl/N_frame.html?http://www.bullishop.nl/N_grp_7-1.html Then go to Airbrushpistolen and scroll down a bit. Definately the same gun. It's sold here as a Black Bull. Looks like a nice one to me though. I think I'll try one. I now have a Harder and Steenbeck Evolution that has no air and needle control. Would love to have those features though It's also here: http://www.airbrush-emmen.nl/shop/blackbullairbrushspuiten/blackbull180.php Edited April 24, 2008 by Boskabouter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 The threads on the Master brush aren't as polished as on the Iwata, so extra care must be taken not to cross thread when cleaning. Still haven't fired it up. Damn work keeps getting in the way! Work is waaaay overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
