rofish Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Diemai, I simply do not understand why you have to go through such a complicated way of gluing the wire to the wooden lip. I see the reason why you have to put first a little glue on the wire, to keep it in place, and then continuing the gluing process. But to speed up things, I would simply use some superglue to make the wire stay in place. Superglue dries instantly, so it saves time for you. Then, the problem with the tape. On one hand, you say that bubbles in the glue must be avoided. On the other hand, you say that if you press the glue from above, using a toothpick, it is most likely that the slot is not entirely filled up with glue. I think this is quite a logical result, since the air is trapped between the tape and wood, and since you press the glue from above, with a toothpick, and through the slots in the wood, I assume, the air has little chance to escape through the unique way out - the small slots, made for the 2 peaks of the "M" shaped wire to go through the wood. I think there is a simpler way to glue the wire. After the wire is glued with a little glue in place (either superglue or your 2 component glue), you find a method to block out the 2 slots, so the glue would not be able to go through because of gravity (you put there small pieces of wood, or use a little of your 2 component glue the moment it starts to harden). Then, you glue the wire in 2 steps, once from above, and then from the other side. If you glue the wire this way, you can avoid air bubbles, which have a natural tendancy to go upwards, through the glue. Another method would be that you use a very soft wire, which you can form directly on the lip, and in this case you do not make slots, but just holes, a little biger than the wire, and so the glue could not go through the holes. I have to try your idea with your egg box. Very clever one. Recently I have used a similar squeeze tube glue, similar to yours, to glue in lips. It is a 10 min. epoxy, 2 components, transparent not clear, as I presume yours is. Don't know if it would be suitable to glue the twisted wires in. After cure, unlike most epoxies, it is still soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 @ rofish I can understand your concerns , but (to me) the glueing process is not as difficult and time-consuming , as it may seem to be ! It only takes about half-an-hour for four lures to be completed as shown on third picture(excluding screweyes) , since my glue starts to set quite fast , and you may already proceed with the next step , when its surface is still a little sticky , at this stage it won't flow anymore and stay in place ! For instance , when twisting in screweyes with that glue (I use pliers to hold them) , you won't do more than four at a time , rather more even three only . For the fourth one the mixture would already have turned "jelly-like" , and you still need some time inbetween to wipe off excess around the eyes ! Sometimes I do fix the wire form in place with superglue before , but only if the slot and groove turned out to be too big , and the wire has too much loose play in it . This way I avoid the toweye to possibly move into an improper position whilst the glue is curing . But usually I don't like doing this too much , since the wire form never comes to sit snugly everywhere in the groove and into the bores at ends of groove , so this way described previously I can be sure , that the entire wire and groove are properly covered and filled with glue ! Superglue won't fill up every place as good as this glue shown , and if the wireform was fixed with superglue at first , the two-component glue would certainly not flow underneath it anymore to fill up every gap in the groove and bores ! Concerning airbubbles , these are not such a great problem , they even tend to occur more , when poking that wire piece or toothpick inside the slot for better pass of glue . It's not like airbubbles sometimes occuring on clearcoats of lures , its rather more one single bigger bubble , that can be pinched open , when the glue is still fluid enough ! If the slot , where the eyelet passes through , is still big enough(most likely on larger lures) and has not been partly blocked with glue from the first step bonding the wire ends into the groove , the gravity of the fluid glue is often enough to fill up the entire slot , therefore I leave this "hump" on the tape , when masking the slot . Poking in a toothpick only supports this flow . And if not , I don't mind , its only a matter of minutes to apply a third mixture of glue to close the slot on the bellyside of lip . But this way I am sure for myself , that I have created the most rigid bond possible , and since I make lures for my own pleasure and not to earn money with it , I really don't care about slower or faster proccessing that much , main thing is , that I am satisfied with what I am doing . I don't quite understand , how you want to block the slots with pieces of wood , whilst applying glue:? ? The glue would also bind this wood ! My plastic tape doesn't ! This glue , that I use , also does not cure to a rock-hard condition , but it has great strength . But I lately found on a lure , made about 8 years ago , that it would turn yellowish after a long time ! Glad , that you like this "egg box rack" , I've been utilizing it for many years now . Since there are different ones around , make sure to look for a box , that has extra deep cuppings on the underside between the single egg's compartments , these also hold many lureshapes in an upright position(f. e. for glueing in diving bills or screw eyes) ! Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Deimai, Forgive an ignorant question. Obviously you've perfected you method, so it works for you. But I can't help wondering why you wouldn't tack glue the wire in place, mask the line tie side, and glue from the back in one shot. From my uninformed point of view, this looks like it would be a heck of a lot simpler. Of course, I've never made a lure like yours, so I don't know all that's involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 @ mark poulson Off course I have considered to do it this way as well , maybe I have even already done it before , don't remember , though:? . But I am simply scared , that after having fixed the shanks inside the bellyside groove with this two-component glue , masking the eyelet side might move the eyelet from its fit accidentally , when tape is pressed too hard sideward against wire eyelet , since I don't always wait too long for the glue to cure properly before making the next step . And you can read in my previous reply to rofish , why I don't like using superglue for tacking the wireform too much . This two-component glue only reaches a fraction of its full strength after , lets say 60 min. , and I already proceed after about 10 min. , than it just turned from a "jelly-like" to a firm , but yet sticky condition . And I guess , I can't put any force on the bond at this stage . The final strenght of that glue is achieved after 72 hrs. , after about 24 hrs. it has well over half of its strength . I have already considered about trying a faster-setting glue , but than the processing time to achieve any fittings would surely be too short . I hope , that I could make my reasons understandable , though surely not agreeable to everyone , but each one of us has his own preferred methods , but which neccessarely might not be the most practical ones to others:wink: ! Call this the freedom of the arts:lol: ! Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Diemai, I figured you'd probably tried everything, and had good reasons for you method. Different materials and designs require different methods, and it looks like you've found the method that works best for you lures. I was just being nosey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 @ mark poulson I really don't mind , this is what such forums are for ! People here might get a lot of ideas and input by the work of other fellow tinkerers (like I also do) , but many things about these they have to or want to adapt to their own purposes , possibilities and demands:yes: ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Diemai, I think I have to explain what I was thinking of. The superglue does not have to be used in large quantities, you just put a drop or less in let's say 3 or 4 places to bond the wire to the wood in the desired position, so as to be able to use the real glue afterwards without the possibility that the wire changes it's position when applying the 2 component glue. I thought the process of forcing the glue to pass through the slot is tedious and the result is not the one you expect, since there is still air between the tape and the wood. What I was thinking of was not to put a piece of wood in the slot when you glue the wire, but before that, so as the glue cannot go through the slot. But this depends on the size of the slot and the consistency of the glue. It may be the situation that you do not have to block the slot at all, you just put the glue into the groove, and then you reverse the lure and put the glue on the other side. This way you avoid using the tape and you also avoid air bubbles. But as Mark Poulson said, you know best what is best for your lures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 (edited) @ rofish I must admit , that I did not quite figure out , what you meant about that small piece of wood , now I do:wink: ! Compared to the time , I'd use to clear off all the excess glue again with router bits , files , a knife and finally sandpaper , any time-saving on the glueing process would not be that remarkable . Mark's suggestion about masking the eyelet instead of the groove and apply the majority of glue from the belly-side would probably save a little time , if I think over it well again . It's a little finacky and time consuming to cut free the eyelet from it's surrounding glue drop , so if I'd mask the eye , I had less cured glue to remove , but if not properly done , the freshly glued eye might move out of position . Or an indention around the eye would show up by having pressed the tape into the slot too much , in that case I still would have to prepare a new mixture of glue and put a drop over the eye to fill up this indention and later work everything perfectly flush to outer body contoures . I'd prefer to apply glue everywhere generously at it's time , after 24hrs. it has cured enough for the excess to be removed , and if I should find a bubble or uncovered spot at this stage , this would throw me back for a day , since I'd fill that spot up with glue and wait 24 hrs. to re-shape flush again ! So I take my time to do it properly at first step:wink: ! Greetings , Dieter Edited June 23, 2008 by diemai mistake in writing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 (edited) Started out on removing the excess glue on my lures , sorry , that some pics got out of focus , but I hope , they are still easy to follow the step-by-step working process . The cutting with different "Dremel" router bits is fairly easy and reasonably fast to be done , make sure not to put too much pressure on it , since pretty fast you might cut blemishes into the wood body . When getting closer to it , just let the router only slide over the glue . Make sure to always hold the circumference of the bit parallel to the wood plane , also to avoid cutting into it . Go as close as you dare down to the wood , the fine-shaping is afterwards done with knife and files and sandpaper(180 to 240 grit) ! Edited June 24, 2008 by diemai text change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Alright , here are some more pics showing the fine grade work to render all excess glue finally flush to the lure body . Only use the knife to cut off glue against the wire eyelet , never onto the outer contoures of the lure , you'd surely cut inside ! The inside of the eye(lip plane) you'd furnish with a slim triangle ,-or square file , just work the glue down to lip level , glue remainders around the "root" of the wire eye are cut flush with the knife , always guiding it parallel to the lip plane against the wire . Not much to say about the belly groove , just file smooth according to the belly contoure , finally sand over with 180 to 240 grit sandpaper . The glue would smear into the files teeth after a certain time , rendering it blunt , I utilize that special file brush shown to clean them up again , but an ordinary steel bristled brush should do as well . Before the first paintcoat clean all chips and dust away from the lure , I use a special cleaning brush for this . Gonna proceed with this in the evening or tomorrow , only worked a bit early in the morning to shoot the pics , got one week off from work , going fishing today:) ! Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Diemai, I thought I had a lot of patience when I make my lures, needing hours to fine shape, sand, making hardware, tuning, etc. Now that I see you at work, I think I am a small child compared to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 @ rofish Hahaha:lol: , I have probably gathered so many lures , that I surely won't be able to fish them all for the rest of my lifetime (at least , that's what my wife says:mad:) ! So I don't have no hurry with building my lures , I want them to turn out the way , that I think is best . Actually it is a well-suiting leisure time occupation for me , since I have to work in a shift system since 1992 . The first 9 1/2 years I have made weekly changes of day ,- late ,-and nightshifts , now I only do day , -and lateshifts , but most likely lateshifts . My buddies take over the nightshifts for me , since they hate lateshifts and I can't find sleep during the day . What I want to say is , that sitting in my workshop and making something , that I like , with my own hands , is giving me a kind of satisfaction , not only to live for going to work . I have several times gone fishing before late ,- or even nightshifts , but it always turned out in dissapointment and frustration to have to leave the water at a given time , maybe even when fish just have started to strike well ! So I leave it now for weekends and vacations . I usually really don't have to hurry with making lures , I enjoy making them ! But I must admit , that for some reason I do not bother for a state-of-the -art paint job , I'd rather create different and sometimes strange and unusual designs . But I can tell you , that the described working processes are not that difficult and time-consuming . The point is , that after some time making several similar lures you'd become rather professional in it , so you also get pretty fast to work them down(in my opinion of speed !) Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Maybe jamming a wooden toothpick through the line tie would stablize it enough so it wouldn't move during a glue up from the backside. Tape, then toothpick, maybe some crazy glue at that point to help hold it and seal the hole, and then flip it and glue it. I try to keep any cleaning of the line tie to a minimum, since any rough spots on the eye can lead to line abrasion and failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 How about dipping the line tie in tool dip or wax before inserting in lure. Then you could peel it off after epoxy/paint without damaging the line tie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 @ mark poulson , @ clemmy , Just realized about your concerns on this glue-drop to be cleaned off the line tie with knife and file:o:huh: ! You are bass anglers , you tie on your lures straight to the line:wink: ! In Germany not too many fishermen do that , in fact the restrictions of most fishing clubs(a membership is almost essential to be fishing over here at all , since these hold many of the waters) and also local restrictions command the use of a wire leader , when lurefishing . For deadbait either , off course ! So the lures would always be fixed with a snap onto this leader , not tied to the mainline directly ! Only some anglers fishing for zander(walleye) in our bigger rivers and trout anglers fishing smaller rivers and creeks , also so-called "put-and-take" trout ponds , tie on straight like you do , since pike are quite abundant in such waters , or lures are too light and subtle for a leader . But even when sometimes not using a leader , I'd always put a Duo-Lock-Snap on my line , just for easier switching:wink: . So I don't have to bother about blemishes and cuts on my tow eyes ! But thanks for your hints , anyway , especially this tool dip or wax thing I'll keep in mind , may utilize it for jointed lures one day . So well , I have now cleared off all the excess glue from my five new "Banana" lures , only took a bit more than one hour(check pics) . @ rofish , to me this is not too long:) ! But as I look closely on the third picture(sideview of all the five lips) I can clearly see , that you guys are just too right with your concerns ! Thank God , that for above mentioned reasons I do not have to bother about it:) ! Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Hi , folks Since my "SuperBug" version has already dried sufficiently from its linseedoil treatment (obviously takes a little less time on such lower density kind of abachewood:)) , I have just now glued in its lip and connected wire harness . It took me five glue mixing processes in total to fill up everything properly . On such curvy shapes it can't be done with much less mixtures (also some spots at the sides of the lip's base remained uncovered at first) , since the glue tends to flow away from its location for some minutes until it sets , so I had to change position of lure a few times and apply new glue into the center slot and sideward lip slot . After at least 24 hrs. curing time I would then remove excess glue the same way previously shown with the teakwood "Banana's" ! After this removal I'd finally be ready to give my entire actual batch of "Banana's" , my first swimbait and two of Tacklejunky's "RoboMouse" versions the first clearcoat for first bath tube testing:) ! Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Hi , folks Finally managed to weigh and test all of my recent "Banana" lures in my bath tube , also some other lures , that I've been working on during the past weeks . And I am very happy , that they all turned out to work fine this time , no rejects:) ! Some lures required a balance weight to stabilize their swimming pattern , some didn't:wink: . The smallest teakwood "Banana" has the "wildest" wobble , due to its pronounced body curve it moves almost like a snake , "corkscrewing" itself through the water , but yet not overturning , even at higher retrieve speed and without balance weight ! And I am absolutely amazed about this "SuperBug" version:lol: ! It has quite a narrow wobble and body roll , but at a very high cadence , almost vibrating ! Since I used less dense abachewood and fixed a 2mm Lexan lip , it turned out very buoyant , way too buoyant to reach sufficient depths:? ! So I taped-on two lead shots of a total weight of maybe 5 grams , just to get it deeper a bit . As you may see on the picture , it is still buoyant enough to pop right back out of submerged obstacles ! The lure runs stable even without weights , these are only for deeper diving , and they minor the wobble just a very little fraction ! Next time I'd better go with a thicker lip or more denser wood , or even both together ! Maybe you guys wouldn't understand.......but I am happy , the worst is done ! Greetings , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny.Barile Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Diemai I wouldnt mind building a few of those in the larger sizes....(about 6 inches or so) I have been fishing surface and near surface religeously this year (my new passion). The Bluefish here really slam lures that leave a wake or splash trail and those look very different from what we are accustomed to here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) Dieter I have just been reading your mammoth post. In answer to 'LaPalas' comment about our (Australian) fixation with banana lures, this probably has more to do with the main fish being targeted, ie, Murray Cod, which like slow, wide, loud lure action. I have had several attempts at making a lure similar to your 'banana' over the years, but have always found, as with 'Flatfish', they are really speed sensitive and hard to tune - love your work and tenacity in keeping at it, these, for me anyway, are the hardest lures to get anywhere near right. Here is another famous/legendary lure of this type, I found a couple in the shed, they come in sizes from about 70mm to 200mm and dives to about 30', they shake so hard/. p, you can nearly hear them coming.pete Edited June 30, 2008 by hazmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) @ Sonny.Barile In fact the largest of my "Banana" models(132 mm , 5 1/3") can be used as a wake bait , provided that it would be made of maximum possible buoayant sort of wood ! Check previously posted pics(three lures swimming on surface) , these almost achieve this feature on a very slow retrieve with the rod tip pointing upward , especially when they come in closer back to you . I am sure , if you make them little larger , as you said , and thus more buoyant , you might still enhance this swimming action . I have just searched my various storage boxes in my basement and picked some lures , that might also be of interest to you . All of these are prototypes , made of buoyant abachewood . I haven't fished them a lot(just because they don't fit easily into most of my tackle stowaways , that I take along fishing:() , but they all do work nicely . I just like to fool around with different and sometimes little weird designs ! In particular the one on top with a "frog" finish does not dive deep at all , when retrieved quite fast , it just swims along at about 4" under the surface . Pulled back slower , it's tail shakes and swings right on the surface , causing a nice wake . Don't quite remember about the other two , but they would act similar on a slow retrieve . They all have in common to provide this distinctive side-to-side swing , just "corkscrewing" through the water , but never overturning ! The two lipped lures also have a jig rattle set in at their fattest portion of body . When making the lip arrangement , first finish the outer shape of lure , after make the lip of aluminium sheet(1,5 to 2,0 mm) , on larger lures thinner SST sheet should do either. Mark , center-punch and drill the screw holes into the lip and then press the lip in proper position against lure to mark the pilot holes at the blank through the lip holes with an awl ! It is very important to put a piece of paper inbetween:wink: ! This is to resemble the final paint ,-and topcoats , if you don't do this , the screwhole(s)and the hole on top of blank won't be aligned anymore and you'd have to extend the lip hole to an oval shape with a small router bit . Certainly they might still require a little balance weight somewhere in front of the belly hook , if the line tie stands in the way somehow for this , I also sometimes drill the weight holes left/right of it , embedding two equal lead shots into them . Greetz , Dieter Edited June 30, 2008 by diemai wrong text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 @ hazmail Thanks about having posted that picture , could be another challenge for me:yay: ! In fact , obviously you also had to learn the hard way about such "Banana" lures ! I have produced so many rejects , before I obviously got behind their secrets . Well , here are two sketches of well-proven models(sorry , don't have a scanner/printer) , maybe , you could take advantage of them somehow ? If I want to enlarge or minor the size of lure , I'd just enlarge or minor the sketch on a photocopy machine , the sizes(length and especially width) I calculate into new dimensions alike . I'd cut out the copies and glue them onto the wood , but one might as well go with cardboard stencils made after them:wink: . These lures all dive rather shallow(2 to 4 feet) , depending also on sort of wood used . If you want a deep diver , it seems , that this "SuperBug" version ist rather foolproof , but I can't tell for sure , since it is my first one:huh: ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 OK , here some pics of some lures made after previously posted sketches , The version with the rounded tail has a little more moderate wobble , the one with the straight "cut" tail woobles a fraction more intense ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted June 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Alright , and here finally the "Round Tail" versions , the two smaller lures have already produced some smaller pike and also perch:yes: . Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 OK , yesterday I found the time to glue in the weights into the lures , that I had previously determined . When neccessary , I'd render those simple leadshots to a rather cylindrical shape , at first with pliers and to get it still a little more round , I'd swage it gently with a small hammer over the edge of my vise from both ends , always turning it . Quite finacky on smaller pieces , but works for me:wink: ! At first I fill in some glue into the holes , than put in the weights and finally close the holes with glue . It is of advantage , not to break the edges of those weight holes , when drilling them . The little ridge , that sets up there at the entry of the hole , helps a bit to prevent the wet glue from flowing off the hole too much:wink: . When weighting bigger lures with larger weight holes , or when holes are located at rather round portions of the lure(wet glue flows away easily) , I'd pour some sawdust or woodchips from my lathe into the freshly mixed glue , and stir . This way I get a nice putty to smear into the weightholes , after the lead has been set in . I save expensive glue this way , but biggest advantage is , that it can not flow away , when still wet . Also cures better and faster . You can easily comprime this "woodchips glue plug" with your fingertips , just pour some sawdust on it , when still sticky , this way it won't stick to you , just like a baker does on the dough:yes: ! After at least 24 hrs curing time , I'd work those glue plugs flush again like previously described . Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 This morning I have sanded the temporary "for testing" topcoat rough for following primer coats to adhere better:wink: . Also masked lip and screw eyes . For masking the screw,-and wire eyes I utilize pieces of vinyl tubing , the kind , that is used to dress trebles on spinners or spoons . I'd cut them to approbiate length , heat up one end to melt with a lighter or candle and fuse it closed with my fingertips . Those too sensitive for this might also employ pliers for this . These tubings can be used several times , to remove dried paint before re-using , I'd put them in a small plastic or metal box together with some old sinkers or nuts and shake for some minutes , so that the loose paint comes off . Before sliding them over the eyes , I'd scrape off remaining paint with the blade edge of my carpet knife . The aluminium wire hooks , that I use to hang the lures into my drying rack , easily poke through the tubing , since their ends are quite sharp , due to having them snipped off with wire cutter shears . At first I'd now brush on two coats of white primer for better coverage . I'm gonna try acrylic one this time , since recently I had problems with following spray paint coats on solvent containing primer . Let's hope for the best , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
