HJS Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 I wrote in another thread about my DAP plaster of Paris (POP) setting up too fast before I was able to lay in 6 masters. I was trying to make a 2-piece mold. As suggested by others, Durham Water Putty (DWP) had a longer setting time. I did a test of setting times before attempting another 2-piece mold. Testing is my forte. Being a retired scientist who did all sorts of testing like this, so I was in my element... whooo-hoo, back to work again! I mixed up both so that they poured easily like pancake batter, maybe even a little more pourable than batter, like extra heavy cream. I pored test puddles on a sheet of fairly rigid PVC sheeting. RESULTS: POP gott too hard to set in masters in 4 minutes. THAT'S too fast for making a 2-piece mold with 6 masters!!! DWP had stayed workable for at least 10 minutes, plenty of time to set in several masters. Also, directions for DWP said that a small slash of vinegar would further delay setting time. So, in a separate patch, I tried adding vinegar. I'm guessing my fluid was about 2+% vinegar and 98% water. This greatly delayed setting time to ~30+ minutes or more. This additional delay in setting time will allow more bubbles to rise to the surface and dissipate. CONCLUSION: DWP has a significantly longer setting time. If you're new at making 2-piece molds I highly recommend using DWP. Cost is comparable with POP. OK, now I can retire again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troul Hawk Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Thanks for posting you results HJS. I have never used the vinegar and now I know it will work if I ever need to delay my molds much more. I am glad this change will make life easier for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike-A-Pike Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 I read a recent post by Vodkaman where adding Elmer's glue to the PoP mix added to the strength of the mold and the ease of removing the pours after they set up. It could get a little spooky around here with a retired scientist (HJS) and an engineer (Vodkaman) with conversations on the exact compound and hydrodynamic of future lures. Welcome aboard HJS; remember... we only tease the ones we like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KcDano Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Since you forte is testing try using a quick setting drywall compound. They make 30-60-90 and 120, which designates the set time. The longer setting time will present more of an opportunity for any air within the mix to migrate out. The removal of air can be facilitated by the use of vibrating table or repeatedly dropping the mold box gently onto the bench or whatever surface you are working on. When the compound sets it will be hard as rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 Welcome HJS, but don't put your lab coat away just yet, we have a ton of experiments for you to perform. Good feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Brabant Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) They sell a retarder that plasters use when they need the plaster to stay workable longer. they also have a accelerator to harden it faster. Homless Depot sells it as well as acellerator. I worked with a buddy plastering a few years ago and we used a household product for either retarding or accelerating. i will try and find out what it is and which it was used for. I know it was a spice. I think it is cream of tartar. Edited June 25, 2008 by Ed Brabant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJS Posted June 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Funny this thread came BTT. Yesterday, I just finished yet another 2-piece mold. I'm really in to 2-piece molds now. I'm hooked! Heck, I'm having so much fun that I'm starting to make molds to replace my 1-piece molds. Even worse, I'm starting to make 2-piece molds for lures types I really don't need. (Did I mention its great to be retired!) My last two 2-piece molds were made from Durham Water Putty. DWP has so many advantages that I don't think I'll ever go back to making 2-piece molds out of PoP. Setting time is long enough to set in 5-6 masters with time to spare. Once DWP dries its much harder and more durable that PoP. Maybe PoP is still good enough for 1-piece molds, but for 2-piecers I'm staying with DWP. Ed - I've heard of delaying additives for PoP but never checked into them. I know with DWP that a splash of vinegar delays setting time. Says so on the box. I use 1/2 tsp vinegar per cup of water. Took 15-20 minutes for the DWP with vinegar to start to firm up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Brabant Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) What is the price differance. 1 Mold is just not cutting it. I know that plaster is pretty cheap. A 50 pound bag for under $10. It was cream of tartar. Sounds a little crazy but it works. Edited June 25, 2008 by Ed Brabant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJS Posted June 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Ed - Durham Water Puddy (DWP) is a little more expensive than PoP. I bought a 4# container of DWP at my local Ma&Pa hardware store for about $7.50. The same store had PoP for ~$5 for the same sized box. But still, it cost only about 75 cents to make a mold that will last years and make 100s of lures, if not dropped. IMHO, its well worth the slight extra cost per mold. You can make lots of molds from a 4# container. PoP might be good for practice but switch too DWP after you get the hang of it, especially if you get into 2-piece molds. The longer set time is a big bonus when making 2-piece molds. On the other hand, others on TU have suggested mixing in a hefty squirt of Elmers into the PoP and that will make it get harder and more durable. And I know what you mean by not having enough molds to make for quick pouring, even if just for your own use. The 4" paddletail Bass Assassin is my goto lure for saltwater striper fishing in both the Chesapeake Bay and in the Bath area of Maine. They are great for freshwater too. So now I have enough 2-piece mold capacity to pour 12 paddletails at a time. Thats about a full cup of plastic. Seems like cream of tartar is a master of many trades, an Elixir of life. Everytime I read a helpful hints article about home remedies to solve a variety of home problems they suggest to use cream of tartar. So now, here on TU, comes another use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 I looked for DWP today and was able to purchase a 4# box for 7.38 +tax. Lowe's had it in stock. Home Depot does not sell Durhams but has DAP water putty. Anyone use the DAP and is it comparable to the Durhams? Pop as in PopPop (Not Plaster of Paris). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj21xd Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 are these type molds suitable to pour lead in? i.e., i'd like to make a custom spinnerbait mold. thanks in advance for any tips shared! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJS Posted June 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) POP - I've never tried DAP water putty, so can't help you out there. But I bet DAP is pretty much the same thing as DWP. For those who have not tried DWP, its looks, handles, and pours EXACTLY like PoP. The differences are DWP is a very pale yellow, takes 2x-3x longer to set (big bonus in my book), and once completely dry, is somewhat harder than PoP (more durable). msj21xd - I've never tried casting lead using molds made from POP or DWP. Maybe others here will know if this is possible. I've read elsewhere that it can be done but the mold has a fairly short life-span due to the much higher heat associated with molten lead. I've heard after many pourings of lead that the PoP mold starts to deteriorate to the point that its useless. Maybe DWP might perform better than PoP at casting lead... dunno. Its also my guess that you would not need to seal the mold. I'd think that hot lead would totally and instantly wreck either Elmers or epoxy sealants. Farthermore, if the unsealed mold surfaces are smooth, as they should be if you do a good job of pouring, that lead would not stick to them like plastics will. And last, be absolutely certain that your mold is totally and utterly bone dry before attempting to pour lead. Edited June 30, 2008 by HJS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike-A-Pike Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Just clarify what HJS said above: Hot molten lead will explode when it comes in contact with Water!!! When adding solid lead to molten lead, BE ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE THERE IS NO MOISTURE HIDDEN OR IN PLAIN VIEW ON THE LEAD; IT WILL EXPLODE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj21xd Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 thanks for the replies. i'm not too concerned with longevity of the mold. if i can get 100, or so, i'm very satisified, for i'm only wanting to duplicate an existing head for my own personal use - not wanting to mass produce to sell. again, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piscivorous Pike Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 are these type molds suitable to pour lead in? i.e., i'd like to make a custom spinnerbait mold. thanks in advance for any tips shared! Yes, I hardened the Pop with white glue in the mix. Baked it dry, very dry no moisture can be present when casting lead. I made a 2 oz. bullet sinker to include a SS metal pin to make the line hole. I did a little math to predict the size and volumn verses weight to make a proper size cone out of clay for the model on the density of lead. I use a bullet metal casting furnace and just used wheel weights. Filling the mould partial up can make lighter weight sinkers but of course they have the same ojive, they are just shorter. As you can see I just joined and learned sooo much from TU. I have been fishng all my life and years ago started copying with Pop soft plastics; so I was thrilled to find this forum much better ideas. I am a fanatical fisherman but this past few years has saddled me with responsibiliies and health problems that has made more time for dreaming about it than doing it. So I decided to to vent my frustration by again starting DIY tackle and rod projects. I had already gotten involved in making custom and high powered portable lighting, flashlights, from joining another forum. This one looks freindly. This is my first post here. Hi all! I recently found a jerk bait pattern that was outstanding on northern pike. I found this site while looking for more of this slightly peculiar pattern. I cannot find the product anymore, Creek Town Pro Series , maybe they are out of business. I do not think I can live without a this new to me pattern so I decided to copy it, I have 4 left. It is much like a bass assasin but has a very long flimsy tail shank and end is a flat splayed forked tail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike-A-Pike Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Piscivorous Pike, Welcome to Tackleunderground the tackle junky center of the known universe - as you may or may not know, tackle making can be very addictive and will change your life forever. You may want to take a few minutes to introduce yourself on the All Aboard - Tackleunderground section. That way we can all give you a warm welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
