swimbait , very first attempt

[.dsaavedra.]

i was asking captsully18 if he could tell me or show me the hinges he uses that bobP makes.

[captsully18]

DSV, I will look for the link to show you pics of the hinge. They are on here somewhere, BobP has shown them. As son as I can find them I will post them here.

David

[mark poulson]

DVS,

I have made hinges out of twisted sst wire, and they work.

I went to sst screw eyes because they allow me to adjust the hinge gap width before I epoxy them in. I use two eyes per hinge, so I can get them adjusted, remove one and epoxy it in, using the other as a depth gauge to be sure I have the same depth, and then do the second one.

I use 1" and 1 1/4" screw eyes. Since I have about 3/16" of the shank behind the eye exposed, I want at least 3/4" of screw embedded in the wood with epoxy. I've never had one fail or pull out. The screw eyes are thicker than the sst wire I use for the hinge pins, so I'm guessing the hinge pins would fail first, although I've never had that happen either.

I just picked up some sst bicycle spokes (thanks captsully) to try as hinge pins on my next set of lures, whenever I can get to them. The spokes are thicker, so they shouldn't ever break, but the real reason I want to try them is that the bigger bit for the thicker wire should be easier to drill without drifting.

No one system is fool proof. But, done right, all of them will make a lure that will last for a long time. I just went to the screw eye/hinge pin method because it's easier for me.

[captsully18]

DSV, I cannot immediately find the post I was looking for. I will try to explain the technique. If I should confuse you please send me an e-mail to captsully18@aol.com. I have some pics saved from BobP that will probably help. Anyway, here goes.

Begin with a piece of stainless steel wire in the dia. you want. Bend this piece in half. Place the two ends you brougt together in the chuck of a drill. Next, take a piece of metal rod that is the size of the loop you wish to make (I use old drill bits for this) and clamp it in a vise. Place the loop of stainless wire over the rod that you just clamped in the vise. Hopefully you have a variable speed drill, and turn drill slowly. The wire will twist and when it is tight against the rod in the vise, You have one half of your hinge. Then you will take a second piece of wire and bend it just like the first. Before you place it in the drill, slip the first piece into the loop of the second. Repeat the twisting process until you have twisted the wire tight to the rod and now you have two twisted wires locked together in two loops. Then I assemble in the method described in the earlier post.

I hope you can understand my ramblings and that I have not muddied the issue too much. Please ask any questions you may have.

David

[.dsaavedra.]

captsully18,

that is what i have been doing! i understand very clearly. someone posted a tutorial of that in the tutorial section, and that is where i got the idea from. i used twisted ss wire on my first swimbait.

i used ss wire loops on my second, but they weren't twisted. they were just bent like a cotter pin. PAIN IN THE BUTT TO CARVE GROOVES FOR THEM!

my bent wire loops were also too far apart, making my joints very spaced out.

i might try some twisted wire loops using a smaller diameter loop to try and limit the spacing.

i think what i am going to do is get some long screw eyes and use some bicycle spokes for my pin.

[diemai]

@ captsully18

Thanks about that information on the twisted eyes !

But are they supposed to sit snugly in their bores or are they even twisted in:? ?

Or you even bend the ends of the twisted portion backward towards the eye to achieve a kind of hook to find grip in the glue:? ?

I know , that the bore must be thoroughly be filled up with epoxy , when glueing them in !

Yesterday during my workbreak I have put my initial sketch of my second swimbait into a neat shape , it turned out to have approx. 3 3/4 body length .

I am eager to find out , wether it would work out the way , that I have planned !

Here it is !

Greetz , Dieter

[diemai]

And I couldn't wait to start out with it this morning before work !

As I always do , I first cut out a photocopy of my sketch and glued it onto my wood board , I cared about setting the center reference line of the sketch paralell to the bottom edge of the board , so that I cut furnish the 90

[diemai]

Still had some time left before lateshift , so I cut through the 3/4 body width saw cuts and also marked the the hinge bores onto the corresponding planes of the three sections .

I drilled the bores 3mm dia. freehand with my "Dremel" , and it worked out fine:yay: !

The wire coil hinges , that I've made already yesterday(little shorter than the ones shown in my first post about this new , small bait) , fit in nicely , they even bind sufficiently for the first bath tube test to come !

Since it would be a PITA to shape all these tiny lure sections separately , I have planned from the start to stick the sections together with some sort of pins , so I utilized some bamboo barbecue sticks , that I normally use for float building , for the purpose .

These were a little too thick in diameter , so I cut them a bit longer than neccessary and fixed them into the chuck of my lathe motor to sand them down to fit into the hinge bores , also ground a little point onto either end to have them inserted easily , after having cut them to approbiate length .

Since I took care(wasn't that hard), that the opposing bores would be positioned reasonably flush , I gained an almost perfect fit , and it takes quite a bit of force to poke the parts together and also pull them apart again , so they should hold up this way for all outer shaping by grinding and sanding .

Now I can shape all the three sections like it was a one-piece lure blank !

Next task is to furnish the concave/convexe shape of the corresponding section planes , I must also care about a snug fit of these , since it would add stability to the temporary pin bonds .

Also would have to drill the hinge bores deeper to fitting length , at least at the convexe portions !

After this I would finally start out with shaping the body taper and rounding-offs , also carve the details !

Hope , things would continue to get along well , Murphy should leave me alone for this time:p !

greetz , Dieter

[diemai]

Hi , everbody

Just this morning I have completed the woodwork on my new , small swimbait .

Everything went along fine so far , the bait also has the 90

[mark poulson]

Dieter,

You're flying along! You make it look easy.

I really like the new lure. Good carving job, too.

I'm sure, if a pike eats it, the sst leader will keep him from stealing it. And the worst that will happen to it is he'll straighten out a hook or split ring.

There are worse things in life.

Good job.

Keep the pictures coming.

[captsully18]

Diemai, I apologize for not getting to you with answer on the twisted wires. Not been on here in a couple of days. The twisted wires are just set into the holes drilled for them. They can fit flush with the surface of the wood, or out as far as needed (of course, too far and they will have a tendency to bend).

Your new bait is excellent. Wonderful carving and those hinges look top notch. Good job, and as Mark says, keep those pics comming.

David

[diemai]

Thank you , Mark and David(no need to apologize:nuhuh:) , but I hung that lure aside right now(not for a long time:)) , next I must get started with a new topwater prototype , that has been on my mind for weeks now , still want to try it in the warm season this year , and you know , that I am not of the fasted kind .

I guess , tomorrow morning I'll get my lathe running:) , so I could do the sealing and painting together with that swimbait .

Also planning on some jerkbaits long time overdue for a friend and....and....!

So many lures , so little time:( !

Greetz , Dieter

[diemai]

Hi , back again here after a long time !

At first : I am disappointed on that second , small swimbait , but its my fault !

The wood is more buoyant , as I've thought , so to get it to sink , a lot of ballast is required , obviously more , than can be possibly embed into this small lure , due to space reasons .

Found out about this last week during a bath tub test .

The lure also did not swim in that snake-like manner too much , only the third section did wiggle a bit .

But this could also have been caused by the leadweights taped outside on the belly , they were just too large and heavy .

To still get this lure running I am now considering to place a lip into its chin , and put just enough weight into the belly to let it swim upright .

I would have failed my design target to achieve a deep running , small swimbait , but at least I would get a wakebait out of it:yes: .

BTW : Talking 'bout deep running swimbait .

I wonder , wether this could be achieved at all , since today I've fished that "carp" swimbait for the first time in my most frequently fished swim (average depth approx. 20 feet , deepest holes 45 feet).

Though it sinks level at approx. 1 foot/sec. and I let it drop to the bottom at 20 feet , it tended to rise up very fast , so that about the last quarter of the retrieve I could view it coming back under the surface .

If I won't let it sink at all , its backfin of brush bristles would "scratch" the surface constantly , the perfect wiggle of the lure also causes a wake on the surface .

Since I don't have experience with swimbaits a lot , I'd just like to know , wether it is somehow possible to built or alter those swimbaits to be able to be fished deep down ?

Or its in the nature of the business , that they are strictly topwater wake baits or shallow runners exclusively ?

If it should be so , I could not use them there , but for bankfishing other , shallow waters , since fish in there are most likely located quite deep:yes: .

Greetz , Dieter

[pikeman]

Diemai, had the same problem with a glider, found out that it was because the height of the lure, for example a minnow shape will need less ballast to become sinking , so in my opinion you should consider changing the shape if you want to do a sinking one

Edited August 30, 2008 by pikeman

[diemai]

@ pikeman

So you mean , that a slim , slender bodied swimbait would not have as much tendency to rise up on retrieve and stay deep better ?

My first swimbait sinks as well , it can't be the weight issue alone !

Would I have to place the tow eye not at the lower "chin" location , but further upward the "head" portion:? ?

Or better utilize a diving vane to keep the(sinking) lure down on retrieve , where I want it ?

But in this case I won't have a swimbait anymore , but a multiple jointed , sinking crankbait(won't bother , if the fish wouldn't , either !).

Too many questions:huh: !

Greetz , Dieter

[pikeman]

I think you should go for rather a fat shape with less height to help improving the quantity of ballast that may enter into the body , also if you want to rescue this project you cant try adding ballast on the hooks, it is not so good looking but it can save the work ( use some feathers from a fly fisherman to cover them out )

[mark poulson]

Dieter,

Almost all wood swimbaits will rise if you retrieve them fast, even deep runners.

Without a bill, a slow retrieve is what is required for a deep running swimbait.

I try to counter the rise by putting a shallow groove on the head of my lures, between the eye tie and the top of the head, like some rattle trap lures have.

The more weight you add, the faster you can retrieve it without having it rise.

I've found even the best store bought swimbaits, at least the wood or hard plastic ones, have the same characteristic. I have a Matt Newman swimbait, 11" trout, that has adjustable ballast, so it can be swum on the surface, medium, or deep. It is very heavy and hard to cast all day, and, even with all four tungsten ballast balls in place, it will come up more shallow on a fast retrieve.

Rather than a bad thing, I try to use it as a change of direction, strike-triggering thing.

I think the lure is followed by the fish when it's retrieved slowly at depth, and then the fish thinks the lure is trying to escape when the retrieve is sped up and it starts to rise.

Many times, I cast my sinking swimbaits across a point, let them sink to 10', and then begin a slow retrieve. As they approach the point, I speed them up, as though they see the fish approaching or sense danger, and are trying to escape. Actually, I want the lure to rise so it doesn't get hung up on the rocks. But, by repeating this method, first over the deeper part of the point, and then shallower, and finally right near the shore, the fish are repositioned to their shallow attack station (thank you BBZ) and the last cast brings the bait through their "funnel" zone, the part of the point where they naturally trap their prey by forcing it up against the point and shallow rock.

This method works for largemouth bass. I don't know about pike, but a predator is a predator.

Edited August 31, 2008 by mark poulson

[Wayupnorth36]

Mark

I can't quite picture this groove on the head that you mentioned, would you mind posting a pic?

Thanks

Alex

[mark poulson]

Alex, I'm not sure a photo will show it. I take a radiused file, like a rat tail file, and file a slight groove along the top of the head. Then I use a more gentle round file to widen the groove, so the forehead of the lure is concave. I got the idea from lipless crankbaits made by Yozuri, which have their foreheads kind of scooped out like this.

I guessed it was to help the lure dive faster. So I did it on my swimbaits.

I'll look for one that has a pronounced groove, and, if I find one, I'll take a pic. No promises.

[diemai]

Thanks a lot for your advice , folks !

Mark , I assumed , that such a swimbait wouldn't run too deep , when I first saw my little "carp" swimming:yes: .

Your idea of a groove in the head is alright , well worth a try:yay: !

But I also do consider about making the entire upper head portion of a swimbait to act as a diving vane to keep the lure down , though in this case the lures outline won't look too realistic anymore:? .

I have the shape of my "Rolf 's Wiggler"(check gallery , looks a bit similar to a "BajouBoogie") in mind to employ for this purpose .

Heavy weighting to keep the lure down is not the best option to me !

I can imagine that a heavily weighted swimbait could turn to loose action , become "sluggish" in its motions:? !

I believe , that wood lures should not sink faster as 1 1/2 feet per second , otherwise they would act too unnatural in appearance:yes: .

I see point in the lure presentation , that you kindly described , Mark , but I don't think , that it would work out often in that particular water , that I refered to , it has always been "a little different" there:yes: .

Fish are always located quite deep or at bottom due to heavy boating traffic , they most likely only come to the shallows as it gets dark and at night , and I don't do boatfishing lures at this time of day anymore .

But in other , different waters it would surely work out that way , too:yes: !

Greetz , Dieter

[mark poulson]

Dieter,

I remember the pictures of the lakes and rivers you fish, and I can see how point fishing isn't really an option for you.

I work lures more slowly as they get deeper. Realistic features aren't as important when it's deep and dark, but a predator will find a slow, easy meal. I am guessing pike are no exception.

Since the lakes I fish have rocky bottoms, I'm not as worried about snagging my lures in deep brush, so, if they get stuck because I'm working them deep and slow, I drive the boat over the spot and pull from the other direction, and they usually come loose.

The one lake that has lots of big fish, and lots of brush, Lake Casitas in Ojai, CA, has been on a restricted access regime to "protect" it's water infrastructure since the Quagga Mussel was discovered in some of the other SoCal lakes. The lake is, first and foremost, the major drinking water supply for Ventura, so the water board decided it was better to err on the side of caution.

But, if I were in their shoes, I might have made the same choice.

Since I would have to take my boat there to be inspected, and then not fish for a ten day quarantine period before I actually would be allowed on the lake, I don't go there anymore.

Best swimbait lake in SoCal, by far.

Edited August 31, 2008 by mark poulson

[jamie]

Diemai I have in the past made special leaders for musky fishing with egg sinkers fixed torwards the the line tie of the leader. Sometimes you have a shallow running bait you like but wont run deep enough. Clip on this leader and it will drag it down to the depth you need. Experiment with the weight and you will find a happy medium. The leader really doesnt affect the bait as much as you think since the weight is not attached on the lure but the leader itself. I use this in trolling as well as casting works well for me.

[diemai]

@ mark poulson

I fish that water, the "Dove-Elbe" racetrack , just similar as you have described .

Let lure sink and work slowly , always having it fall back to bottom frequently . I fish bigger sinking cranks like sinking "SuperShadRaps" or heavy spoons like 1 3/4 ounces "Daredevles" that way , of course also various homemades .

Most other anglers throw plastics there , but for some reason I have a kinda antipathy against them:huh: , I don't tie them on too often , only if it would be the best option , f.e. when drift fishing on more windy days .

If I should snag up , my lure retriever most likely gets them back , at least the two ,-or three hooked cranks and jerks , single hooked lures like plastics , jigging spoons and casting spoons sometimes remain in their "wet grave" .

Just thought , that I could fish swimbaits the same manner , but now I see , that it would still take some more experimenting an trial and error lurebuilding to possibly get there .

www.asvhh.de/Karten/kadov_gps.htm

(click "SAT" on map for enlargeable sattelite pic)

Its an artificial dug out created in the early 1950's , clay and mud bottom , some few places quite snaggy , since they put housing debris from the war into it .

That alien "Quagga mussel" sounds to be of Australian origin , as I think to figure out by the name .

10 days of quarantine is is impossible to hold up to , won't be able to fish elsewhere during that period , only solution is to have a boat placed steadily on that lake , but who has a boat to spare ?

@ Jamie

Thanks a lot for your input about a weighted leader !

I had just remembered to have read about it somewhere , as I read your post , I had entirely forgotten about such an option .

This is the first thing to try , I'm gonna furnish some during this week , so I'd be ready to go for the weekend , and see , what would come out of it:yes: .

There is also a possibility of utilizing sinkers on sidearms or bottom bouncers a few feet ahead of a (floating) lure , to get it close to bottom , but I never could grow much sympathy for that method , since it would be impossible to cast a lure accurately like this .

Better suited for trolling , but trolling is not permitted in many waters over here , for whatsoever reason:( !

That weighted leader sounds a far better option to start out with , thanks a lot:yes: !

greetz , Dieter

[rofish]

Diemai,

Why are you trying to complicate things? If you want your swimbait to run deep, I think there is not a better method than to add a lip to it. What would be the problem in this case? Would you be ashamed that you have caught a pike on a wakebait instead of a swimbait?

A lip would surely change the action of the lure, but perhaps it will be for the better.

[diemai]

@ rofish

I will surely build one with a lip as well , I am just at the beginning with swimbaits , still a lot to learn and find out about(and so little time) !

And really don't bother about which kind of lures I catch fish on , main thing is , that I catch some at all , lol:lol: !

greetz , Dieter