mark poulson Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Diemai, I found that, by marking the hook hanger locations (for me cotter pins pushed through 1/8 oz egg sinkers) on the side of the lure before it's shaped, but after I've traced the shape on the side of the blank, I can raise the lower screw eye location enough to clear the hook hanger hole, and it doesn't seem to affect how the lure swims, or it's strength. I also make sure to have enough room in a section with just weights to clear the screw eyes, too. For lower profile baits this may not be possible, but it works for me. And if my screw eye hole actually hits the top of the weight hole, I'm not worried because I set the weights in epoxy, filling the hole half way and then pushing the hook hanger in until the epoxy comes up through the hole the cotter pin is in, and overflows. I wipe off the excess with denatured alcohol, and it adds an additional sealer where ever it is spread over the lure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 @ mark poulson Thanks about that hint , if I understood right , the hinges neccessarely must not be placed equally centered(from a sideview) , but may slide upward a bit to gain more space at the belly portion for weights:wink: . I can imagine , that it won't alter the action significantly , so I'll have that in mind for future baits ! After glueing in your hookeyes with those 1/8 ounce sinkers attached , do your baits still sink at a horizontal level ? Or you add further balance weights ? I don't really like glueing in weights in advance , I need to test everything in my waterbucket ! Also already had some weight holes touch up internally to screweye shafts , just like you I don't bother too much , since my glue fills it all up again ! Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 diemai, I've done enough of my jointed lures to know that, especially with the poplar lures, I need at least 1/4 oz ballast, even for floaters, and always more. So I drill out additional ballast holes when I'm drilling out for every thing else, in the locations I would probably use, deep enough for either another 1/8 oz egg sinker, or two #5 split shots. I drill all my holes and make my hinges slots, seal the wood, install the hook hangers, hinge pieces, and line tie with epoxy, install the treble hooks and split rings, and then I float test them in a 5 gallon bucket of water, half filled (so it's not so heavy). If the lure leans, I add weight by pinching #5 split shot to the trebles, starting with alternate sides of both front and rear hooks, and adding additional weight as needed, again symmetrically, until the lure floats upright and as deep as I want it. Your tape method would probably insure even weighting. In the case of floaters, I like to have about 1/2" of the lure's back out of the water during testing. I've found that, even with painting and two coats of epoxy, they will still float. If I weight it so it float with the back barely awash, after paint and finish it will "suspend". In reality, it will sink very slowly. If I want a slow sinker, I add enough so it just falls, and more if I want a fast sinker. With the sinkers, I try to make sure that the lure will "stand" on it's trebles when it hits the bottom. There is no way to be truly sure if they will stand up on the bottom, since the ballast weights, once installed in the body of the lure, move the center of gravity a little higher, but I've tested finished sinkers, and, so far, they seem to stand up well. Another way to alter floatation is to change the hook and split ring size, but I like the biggest trebles I can get away with without fouling every cast (occasional fouling is unavoidable with a jointed lure that's flexible). I've found that my "suspending" lures are weighted really well for a fast surface retrieve, my floaters are good to medium speeds, and then have a tendency to lean. The true sinkers seem heavy enough to stay upright at all speeds. Again, the key is to keep the weight as low as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 @ mark poulson I expected it to be your experience to enable you to process this way , that you kindly described here . I once did the same with a bunch of six jerbaits , that were supposed to be weighted(with one single weight) to sink slowly , I have cut these lures out of teakwood kitchen boards . To save me some work , I only tested two lures in my waterbucket , it happened to be , that a 10 grams sinker just fitted to achieve desired performance , didn't have to tinker about it more . So I glued in those sinkers into all the lures , but after having finished and first tested them , I have found two of them still floating . Off course this is a result of different wood densities , also of subtle differences in the blanks shape , but since I trust more on weighting each single lure the way I do . When having to weight a sinking glider jerkbait , that most likely has two weights fore and aft , I'd most likely use roofing lead sheet . I'd first cut out a rectangular strip , approx . 18mm X 200mm , kink it and hang it on the belly hook . Now I shorten it , until desired sink rate is achieved . Then I straighten it to make up as a template to cut out a second strip . Now I have to estimate , about how to divide that strip to most likely two different lengths to let the lure sink at horizontal level . The rear strip piece most likely turns out a little shorter . In case , that it happens to cut one piece too short due to faulty estimation , I still have that second strip to start all over again. I'd use my taping method again for testing . The waste of lead I'd gather to cast sinkers or leadheads some day . After desired performance is accomplished , I'd roll up the strips as tight as possible(rolled them up loosely for testing before)and use a hammer over the edge of a steelplate(or anvil)to swage these rolls even tighter to a cylindric shape . After I'd drill fitting holes into the lure at determined locations for those lead-rolls to fit in . I heard , that some guys even drill the holes first , yet a little deeper , and pour molten lead in ! Now the waterbucket testing is done and as much lead drilled out on a drillpress as neccessary to achieve desired sink rate . Haven't tried it yet , since I know , that molten lead burns the wood's surface , and especially the leadplug inside the bore would surley start to turn , when the drillbit finds grip in it , so I guess after casting , it has to be pulled out and somehow bonded inside the bore with glue . greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Diemai, You've got it together, for sure. I'm sure your method works. Funny, the word swage is universal, I guess, for all metalworkers. My father was a lathe hand and machinest. And we had a small metal lathe in the garage when I was young. So I learned a lot of metal working terms and information when I was young. One of my most treasured books is The Machinest's Handbook. Fun to read about thermite welding, different alloys, and all the rest. I've also wondered if the wood scorched enough to make a loose fit when lead is poured into a lure.I don't know if guys who pour molten lead into their lures remove it afterward and set it in glue. It seems to me that would kind of defeat the purpose of pouring it directly into the lure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 I cast a block of resin, in which I drill a hole and cast the lead in this. I use the same drill bit to cut the hole in the lure. This guarantees a perfect fit every time. Even though this is essentially a one piece mold, with a few light taps, the lead slug is removed easily, as the lead shrinks as it cools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 vman, You are a clever devil! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 I had considered to cast my weights in a mold as well , but I would make it out of aluminium . I have made already some aluminium molds years ago , but for different items like jigging spoons , heavy football leadheads , sinkers , small spinnerbaits , etc.... ! Don't even remember all , they are buried in one box somewhere in my basement . I guess , that I never made one for lure weights , because I don't like any mass-production of my handmade lures ! I always like new challenges in making different lures(By now I already have a new idea on my mind about a lure , that pops on the surface but can also "walk-the-dog" , maybe even on a shallow dive ?) . And maybe such weights from a mold won't fit to all of my lure-ideas , though the weights could be cast in any length required by making the mold adjustable , but always of same diameter(for each different diameter I would have to furnish another cavity) . It would only take some time , but presently I am really not into casting lead anymore . @ mark poulson I have found that word "swage " in an US tacklemaking book(did not know it before) , used there to describe the working process of a hammer beating onto a piece of metal tubing to render it flat and shape to a lure , so in my mind I assumed , what its meaning in German would be , since I am familiar with that described process ! So , maybe my own personal translation went wrong ? But can't be that much , I suppose:huh: ! Anyway , just checked my dictionary here , and its not there ! Must really be a metal worker specific term:lol: ! You are right , that first casting lead into a lure , pulling the slug out to glue it back in , would be rather paradoxical , but I assumed it to be neccessary , since I know , that molten lead shrinks , when cooling down . But as I said , I haven't tried this weighting method before . Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokeyJ Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 I thought in reference to lead that swaging was cold forming lead through a large amount of pressure into a shape. This process results in more consistency b/c there are no voids in the lead. Lead swaged bullets are known for their accuracy because of their consistency of shape and weight compared to cast bullets. That is how I had always heard the term used, at least in regards to lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 (edited) @ SmokeyJ So probably Mark is right about the universality of that word in terms of working on metal , obviously it means either to shape or comprime metal by means of an outer force , in case of those bullets it would be a press to force the bullet into a kind of mold to comprime them , I guess . In case of the lead chunks it would be a hammer rendering their shape , but this is rather more like forging , but without utilizing heat:?! But as Mark once mentioned in another thread or in a PM , American English is a living language due to people from so many different origins making up for the nation ! For instance I just read a term in another thread " truck jackknifing" ! Never heard this before , but instantly I understood , that its meant to describe a truck with either its engine or a trailer to "fold" together , just like a jackknife ! greetz , Dieter Edited July 4, 2008 by diemai text addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 OK , this morning I have sanded over my swimbait sections and masked the eyes with vinyl tubing , now it should be ready for first primer coats . More details about this way of masking eyes in my thread "new Banana lure"(sorry , don't have much time to write the same things twice:nono:!) . Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Referring to my post No56. The resin I used had micro spheres in it. After 100 or so pours, the spheres start to powder, making the lead slugs more difficult to extract. This was predictable, everything is in hind site. Next I'll try pure resin, see how that does. You could say that I should have done the pours before reporting, but it was current. Still, I felt it right to report back on the disappointment. On to the next experiment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 This morning I finally applied first paint coats onto my swimbait , after having it primed white during the past days . Sorry , Mark , but I did not go after your advice to connect the lure sections prior to painting , since I just wanted to save time about unmasking the eyes and fixing the connected lure into a sort of frame for painting . I was just in a good mood about also spraying my batch of "Banana" lures with my rattle cans , and I did not plan from the start to put on a scale pattern onto my swimbait , which would have made connecting the sections essential ! OK , the right side of the head section turned out to a little darker tone , also these d:censored: rattle cans sometimes cause some paint drops , but the way , as it looks now , I can tolerate for myself ! After these blended paints have dried overnight , I'd proceed to brush on some details with model making enamels . wish me luck folks , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Diemai, I wish you more than that. I wish you good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 @ rofish Tanks a lot:worship: , off to work now:flame: ! Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 diemai, The lure is looking good so far. I can't wait for you to get home from work so you can do more and post more pics. I wouldn't worry too much about the variations in color you mentioned. I get variations in color from one side to the other with my lures assembled, and I use an airbrush. I don't think the fish care, only the fishermen! I sometimes paint the sections individually. When I am repairing a damaged section, I paint it individually, with the rest of the lure next to it for a sample. I'm just not that good a painter, so I find I get a more consistent match from one section to the next by painting with the lure assembled. One trick I learned here is to put a coat of clear pastel fixative over the lure during various stages of painting, when I've gotten a paint job I like up to that point. That way, if I mess up the next step, I can just wipe it off with water and repaint. Of course, I'm using water based paints. With rattle cans, if you let the paint dry completely, you could probably wipe off the next layer with paint thinner if you don't like it, but you'd have to be gentle. Depending on the paint you use, a solvent based paint can take a while to really cure, adding to your painting time. Like Rofish said, good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captsully18 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 diemai, I have been following this thread from the beginning, and I wish to thank you for such a thread. Mark definitely has given great advice along the way, and I wish to thank him as well. Just want to add that I think that you have done a wonderful job so far, and I think that you have a success in your hands. Looks grand, and I am anxious to see the finished product. Thanks again for such a fine, detailed thread. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 @ markpoulson Thanks a lot , but after work in the evening I usually don't go down my workshop anymore , but watch TV or check TU . I have planned to proceed the coming morning , but have to be earlier at work , since my shiftmate is gonna be absent , so no time left , I think:( . Its very clever to protect the single paint coats to be able to clean them off again , but won't work with my own , these are solvent based ! If I should make a big mistake whilst painting , I'd just apply new primer and start all over again , or just spray the lure in another , darker color , if possible ! I am not too choosy in that way ! Sometimes I also sand all off again , namely if paint should crackle , in this case the different paints don't match to one another in terms of compatibility , thus have to be entirely removed ! @ captsully18 Thank you so much for your kind words , but without Marks help and assistance I probably would not have started out at all , now I am already thinking over the next step/swimbait . I hope , that by this and other threads like this one some fella's would also be encouraged to try something , that is probably new to them , no matter , wether the lure here should fail or not , they can only learn ! Thanks again:worship: , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.dsaavedra. Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 diemai, our threads are so similar! i think it is interesting how we both just decided to try something new and jump into the world of swimbaits. i really liked the construction process of mine and tomorrow i am going out to buy more wood for the next couple of swimbaits! your bait is coming along nicely. have you tested it for action yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 (edited) @ DSV Just Like you , I really enjoy doing the construction of a new lure model , especially if it has some "mechanical" features(hinges) to tinker about:yes: ! I am also already making plans on another model , but with a different hinge construction , but also I want to put an idea to practice about a lure , that can be made to pop and also made to "Walk-The-Dog" at the same retrieve:wink: . I am not so fast like you , by far , only have two hours per day for making lures through the week , on weekends most likely I don't touch them at all , this is why this thread can never proceed that fast:huh: ! I have tested that lure previously , you can read it a few pages backward , but I can't provide such a nice video like you did . Though my camera has a video function , I haven't bothered yet to care about it . Such new electronic and computer stuff always scares me , don't have the patience to learn about it , sorry to say:huh: ! This swimbait here I weighted to be sinking after final assembly , as far as I can tell by your video , it wiggles a little more intense and also takes about half pull distance to start wiggling compared to yours in the video . Greetz , Dieter Edited July 11, 2008 by diemai added link did not work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Diemai, I have received an e-mail from TU with your previous post here. Your last phrase is about a German site where we could see a different type of hinges. But that phrase did not show up in the thread. That's more than strange. Anyway, I followed up the german link and I could not open it. It says the picture can be seen by registered users only. Can you copy the picture and then show it to us? Even if this would mean a lost time for you in finishing your swimbait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 (edited) @ rofish I'll try , but don't have time now , must go to work soon ! I did such before to import a pic from the web into my own picture file , so it might work out again ! I edited the link again very fast , after I saw , that it was not accessible to everyone ! You must have been there just that moment between posting and editing ! Edited July 11, 2008 by diemai Addition of text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 ! What a mess ! The worst case has occured , things went on too well so far ! "Murphy doesn't sleep" I read somewhere here on TU in someones signature ! It's d:censored: true ! Going to the workshop , I just had to face , that the paint of my swimbait had evolved crackles:cry: ! Blame it on the new yellow paint that I applied at first on the primer coats , does not seem top be compatible to the other paints(though it is also solvent-based , but a different brand) . I will try to spray it over for one more time now , trying to achieve about the same color blend , as it has now , have to look for another yellow paint before , since my old , proven can is down to the bottom:( ! But after experience I know , that these crackles would always show up again , even under fresh coats of spray paint ! If I'd brush paint over with model making enamels , I'd achieve coverage , but it won't look that good in terms of blending the different tones . This would be my second option , if re-spraying should fail , but I have a little hope , that it works , since the crackles are not that deep(not yet) . Same thing happened to me with another "Suick" type lure(even worse) , that time I blamed it on the primer paint , but obviously this was not the case , since I have switched the primer to an acrylic one ! Third option(after previously mentioned should fail) is to remove all paint down to the bare wood , done it before with another lure:yes: . But sanding didn't work well at all , I utilized my "Dremel" with a soft brass bristle brush for it . Since those lures are made of hard beechwood , this brush doesn't "bite" into the wood's surface , if worked carefully ! Sorry about this failure , since some guys seem to be impatient to see the finished lure , but this mess really throws me back quite a bit:( ! Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Diemai, I, for one, do not have anything against those cracks, in terms of artistry, and I am sure the fish would not even notice them. I even think they are cute. What I would be worried about, is that those cracks could "work" the lure after you clearcoat it. Things are different if you intend to sell that lure. The possible buyer could have a strong argument in negociating the price. But as we are eager to see the final result, what would you chose as your next step in the building process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Grrrr!!!!! I hate when that happens! I guess that's why I'm so hesitant to try new methods. So many lures, so little time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
