Site Expansion & the future of TU (Poll)

[scottishghillie]

Having read all the posts to date, I can see both sides of the fence. However, I will not be supporting a fee to keep the site going.

I havent posted a lot as I am just starting out and my technical knowledge so I am more of a taker than a giver (to quote an earlier post). I use the internet the same as I use a library. I need to find out about something, I go on line. I am a fishing guide and I am making lures for myself in an attempt to keep the cost of guiding down, as well as making them just for pleasure.

I vote no to change and subscriptions, at any level.

[philB]

Well Jerry, I have thought about this and have made up my mind. I find myself thinking maybe it aint such a good idea as, I have said before, some of the greatest lure makers on the planet are right here on this board, guys who, although they say you learn something new everyday, dont really have to learn from being here but willingly pass on their wealth of experience out of the goodness of their hearts. I wonder if they would still want to do that if they had to pay $50 for the privilege . As for me personally I would gladly pay a fee but I still have a lot of learning to do. Before the imposition of fees I would examine all other avenues first, an online shop appeals to me and with all these users has to be an option to generate income, the personal web page hosting also is something which has to have potential and would enhance the TU.

So after much deliberation I am going to vote yes as I believe the TU is worth the support and has got to such a level that it simply has to make some money, it is not unique there, but I have serious reservations about its effect. Reading between the lines I suspect the decision has already been made to have a fee system ?

Edited June 30, 2008 by philB

[captsully18]

Help me! Help me! I am sooooo confused!!!

Now to get serious. I am about as computer illerate as anyone you will come across. Heck, I voted yes before I realized that all these comments were on here. That is the way it was laid out, so I thought........ See what I mean?

I have since read all the posts here and they present a lot in the way of pro and con. I am an old guy and don't really like change. Seen too much of it and a good bit was not for the good. I am really into this site and there are very, very few days that I don't visit. I post when I either have a question or a possible answer. I don't have a lot of experience compared to most of you, but have learned a bit via trial and error that I don't mind passing along.

As far as givers and takers, I think that was well covered in a thread of that name. Through the school of hard knocks (I have belonged to that school for many, many years) I have determined several members that only want to parade their talents and will answer NO questions concerning what they do. If you will pardon my speaking plainly, these guys piss me off. But that's just me, and I do move on. What I have found that is the most desirable is a big bunch of guys that don't mind sharing and helping out one little bit. In past year I have learned a ton of stuff, much more that I can possibly give back at this time. But I am willing to help any way that I can.

Jerry, you have listed quite a few changes that you have in mind. I can't allow mysef oppose change, but I don't necessarily agree/like it.

A lot of the guys that have posted here I consider "friends" and agree with what they have said here (Mark Poulson, BobP, Delw, The Rookie [aka Tater Head er Hog] to mention a few) And I am sure Dean McClain would have some input here as well. I will NOT presume to speak for him, but I do know he is having serious computer issues at this time. Hope he gets it fixed in order to post here.

I know I owe this site a great deal and would hate to see it taper off, but I am afraid that that is exactly what may happen in near future if you stay with the dues you propose. I think that the guys that are giving so many of us their talented input would loose interest after paying dues for a while, leave, and not return. Not to mention the "newbies" that would wander off to other sites, cause they didn't get the "nurturing" they wanted/needed.

Just felt like adding my input (good or bad) and not sure I have done a good enough job. But as I stated at the beginning.........I am sooooo confused!

Thanks for hearing me out

David

[Coley]

Well, well, well, we have indeed, two kinds of opinions, A "yes" and a "no",

and reasons why yes will fail and reasons why no is what I want.

Are there any reasons why "yes" will not fail. I'll give you one. We, as

senior members of the site seldom post anymore. Why?? because

we are sick and tired of the same old, same old questions.

How do you make a crankbait, does anyone of you realize how

long it would take you to tell someone how to make a crankbait.

I have responded to several questions on the site, asking for email

addresses to send info, with pics and explanations on how to do it.

Maybe 2 responded. My feeling is, "yes" it will help bring the seniors back.

I am all for it.

[Joe S.]

I think it is a very tricky situation, I am undecided at the moment, but can lean 60% towards the side of not registering for a fee.

I've been a member for a few years, I don't have a lot of posts in that time as I usually stop in a few times a week to take a peak and see if there is anything I can add to, or if I might need a quick answer to an issue, and also to just admire a lot of the work that is done by the members.

Unfortunately for me I didn't find out about this website until I already went through all my trials and errors in pouring. Have I learned some things since then, of course. But I also feel I may have helped a few as well. I feel this site is the best tackle making board on the net period.

But as some others have stated, I think in the beginning you will probably lose some valuable members due to the fee, but then some will stay.

Then you are going to have people stop by to figure out how to start making there own stuff, which initially is expensive, and on top of that they would have to pay a fee here.

I think that will turn away a lot of people from joining, even if it was cheaper than currently advertised.

Then from the lack of participation over a short period of time I think the participation from active users will decrease as well.

That's Just my opinion.

I also understand your position as well.

I believe this place is pricless as far as knowledge, but nowadays with the cost of things it's going to be hard to get people to pay, they might not get the same exact or as high quality of information, but they can get it else where on the net might just take a lot longer.

[rhahn427]

Done

Thanks

[Ogajiga]

Having learned my niche in tackle making the hard way by trial and much error, I'm here to share what I can to help others out. Sorry, but don't know if I want to pay for this opportunity.

[mrs.redg8r]

Hi everyone!

some of you know me and some don't. I just wanted to put a little two cents in. After reading the posts and understanding where everyone is coming from, you just have to take a deep breath and put yourseld in the big TU shoes for a minute.

You love this site and we love you. This has become more of a family lately than just a bunch of strangers looking for tips and tutorials and I think that is what keeps most coming back.

This is not something thought up overnight. The more is costs for the servers, new programs and tons of tedious hours to design even the last detail of this site, something has got to give somewhere.

Donation buttons = only a few helped. thank you to those of you.

I put up a shop full of TU merchandise after everyone said they wanted t-shirts and hats. I even announced that the proceeds would go to fund the site. I paid for the stock out of my pocket...only 6 people bought (a big thank you to those of you).

We don't charge alot for advertising and those of you who have ads are making more because of TU.

Even those of you who have used the classified ads are making money.

Jerry has some great Ideas that would benifit all of you. Especially those of You that are luremakers. It is so easy to say just do this or just do that. Software is expensive and those of you that have sites know what kind of time it takes just to code one page of ideas. It took 6 years to bring this site this far. and for the cost ...well it's not cheap. Everythings comes out of pocket for us and we have been happy doing it. There has been a continuing happiness from stories, jokes, picutres, and updates of the latest BIG ONE CAUGHT TODAY post.

No decision on the future of TU becuse it remains how it always has been....the decision is up to you....the MEMBERS

[Lbifisherman429]

I see where you are soming from but i think that alot of members will go else where to free sites

also a nothe rocnsern is how will the members under 18 pay?

[redg8r]

Thank you all for your opinion on the subject.

closed

[Spike-A-Pike]

This is a difficult debate and I’m afraid that there will be nobody that is going to come out of this 100% happy; some may get their feelings hurt, and still others will feel betrayed… One thing is certain, nothing stays the same forever.

When I first dropped into TU, I was amazed at the volume of information that was here to absorb and knowledgeable folks to discuss both some simple and complex matters in lure construction. I still think that this site continues to feed my need of new ideas and processes at least once a day – I crave the communication with like minded individuals. The number of international members that we continue to gain is incredible! I have noticed that there are 2 primary types of active members:

• The ones that go through all the new posts and contribute with questions, answers, or intelligent dialog of the subject matter.
  
• The ones that tend to stay in just one main focused forum that is their primary comfort zone and they are respected masters of authority in those domains. Both types actively contribute and support the membership.
  

Some of the proposed changes are very exciting. I am a hobby builder and have always enjoyed making streamers and spinners – there is nothing like catching quality fish on my own creations, except watching someone else catching a quality fish on one of my creations – it’s a real rush. I enjoy passing information to those that will follow behind in my foot steps so they can experience the thrill of catching fish on one of their creations and mentoring them along. I have seen an active, informal mentoring program that takes place in all the established forums… It will take a while in the new forums for that to happen, but it should happen.

I know that there are a lot of guys that are very supportive of TU, I met some of them at the TU Meet a few months ago. It was amazing to see the distances several folks were willing to travel to attend; I’m talking thousands of miles. I was also just a bit disappointed in the lack of participation for those less than a few hours drive to attend. The energy of the group was incredible; my wife and I both felt we had made some great new friendships. That feeling still occurs a couple times a week as I view their posts or have an insight of the experience they possess.

So, I’m really torn. I know Jerry has a vision for future of Tackleunderground.com. As a group, we asked for TU caps, shirts, and other site sponsored gear. Jerry and Missi (aka: Mrs.Redg8r) met that request; Missi learned how to silk screen T-shirts and found a good source for our TU ball caps. To be very honest, I wear that cap every time I leave the house. When I’m around other fishermen, “What’s that Tackleunderground.com about?” is a common question. The start of the TU Gear part of the site was a new beginning. I watch as it continues to expand and meet member needs. The cost to invest in an inventory isn’t cheap and I worry that it will go away without active member support.

One of the goals Jerry has mentioned is building a collective of TU lure builders large enough that we can go to major tackle component suppliers and get discounted pricing on common use items. I don’t feel it is right to expect TU (aka: Jerry and Missi) to fund that type of project out of pocket – so, the seed money has to come from some place. I’m sure that our membership dues will be used to get that initiative started.

A few TU members have actively tried to give something towards the mentoring and teaching of all the “newbie’s” in the form of the Member Submitted Tutorials (MSTs). As the TU Tutorial Manager, I marveled at these timeless classics that were given selflessly by the members. The server crash months ago caused most of the pictures to be lost from those libraries. I don’t know how many hours Jerry invested into finding as many of those missing photos as possible, I remember the number of hours I spent putting back together with the surviving text narratives into formatted document and, from there, converting them into portable document format (pdf) files. As I started going through some of those files, I realized how committed Jerry is to TU, he’s authored several MSTs and some pretty high standards are maintained in all of them. After repeated complaints about the missing photos (mostly by newbie’s - sorry if the truth hurts), the incomplete tutorials were pulled even though the supporting text was still a useful accest. IMHO

The MSTs, the Galleries, and even the photo intense threads in the various forum, not to mention the threads going all the way back into 2003, are all stored some place. After the server crash and all the losses from the experience, in finding a replacement hosting service reliability and reputation were amongst the top priorities – those cost money. I have never seen a message saying, “The storage space in all full and all maxed out – post somewhere else.” I have seen threads to certain forums warning about the number and size of the photos being posted as a preemptive effort to prevent disruptions and loss of files. In many companies, IT folks are constantly warning users that the servers are almost full; those companies normally have to buy more storage and sometimes, entirely new networks. Jerry has always worked in the background to keep that from happening to TU.

I won’t try to tell others what to do; but I would like to point out a few comparisons to ponder…

Monthly = $5.99 USD / Semi Annual: $29.95 USD = 1 month FREE / Annual: $53.91 = 3 Months FREE

• The cost of a single pack of cigarettes is about $5.00 a pack and those, over time they could kill you and if you’re a 2 pack a day smoker like I used to be, that is about $300.00 a month give or take $50.00 either way.
  
• The price of a gallon of gas is around $4.20 a gallon and a fill up is about $75.00 (minimum) a tank. To go fishing to my favorite local fishing hole (about 120 miles one way) and tow the boat both way is going to cost that plus the price of gas and oil for the boat… If I get rained out and stay home, I’ve almost paid for 2 years membership.
  
• The average non-matinee movie ticket now costs about $10.00. Popcorn costs about $6.00, and a drink, about $4.00. Thus, the average expense at a theater is about $20.00. For a family of four, that’s approximately $80.00 for two hours of entertainment.
  

The term being used to describe these costs is “Membership Dues” because we are a sort of club. We have received a heck of a deal on a very elite membership. Do you like to golf? I do and so did my father, he was a member at Sawgrass. Check what his membership dues were at http://tpc.com/sawgrass/membership/index.html… And it truly was one hell of a coarse 12 years ago.

I have been struggling for for the better part of two days to write this, to reach a tone that wouldn't offend or be too over the top. It wasn't easy and it still falls short of all the things I would like express about my feeling towards this site. Come what may, I'm glad we had a chance to share view points. Other sites would have just notified you that the change was implemented and please pay XXX to find out why. Freedom just isn't free.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Spike-A-Pike