Javelin Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 I bought about 75 lbs of soft lead from a metal recycler and when I melted it down, it had alot of blue and copper stuff floating on the top. I would scoop it off then in a minute or two, more copper looking stuff on top. I never seemed to get it all of, it would just keep coming back. When I finally poured it into ingots, the ingots didn't have that brilliant 'silver-chrome' look to them, but more of a blue hue to them. Is this lead worth saving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeves Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 The lead is definitely worth saving. The colored stuff that surfaces is just more impurities in the lead. I get the same thing but once I have made my ingots for later use in the melting pot, I don't worry about it. When it returns in the melting pot, I just skim it off to the side before I dip with the ladle. It never seems to build up too much to worry about and don't seem to effect the pour any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin Posted June 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 I was just worried that it might have too much copper in it??? That copper looking color and the blue made me wonder if the lead would be tough enough. Thanks for your reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin Posted June 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 I also had 2 5 lb bars from Doe Run that I bought from a junk dealer. When I melted them down individually, one had a nice brilliant shine to it and the other had some blue at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeves Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 Javelin, You won't be melting any copper in your lead pot, it doesn't get anywhere near hot enough to melt copper. Not sure what causes that color, but it is not copper. It sounds like the Doe Run stuff might have some tin in it which would give the shiny appearance. It may not be as soft as pure lead would be. Either way, everything you have is good to use for your lures. Have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin Posted June 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin Posted June 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 Do you think I should add a little hard lead to it for my spinnerbaits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) I bought about 75 lbs of soft lead from a metal recycler and when I melted it down, it had alot of blue and copper stuff floating on the top. I would scoop it off then in a minute or two, more copper looking stuff on top. I never seemed to get it all of, it would just keep coming back. That "copper and blue" stuff is composed of oxides of lead, and is not caused by any contaminant in the lead. As a matter of fact, that copper and blue stuff is a good indication that you have fairly pure lead with no contaminants or significant alloying elements. If the lead had any significant alloy components, it would not likely turn that characteristic color. What happened, simply, is that the lead was overheated. And that's why the copper and blue oxides just keep coming back. You can't scoop the contaminant off, because it's just lead that you're removing. Even if the lead is 100% pure, when overheated it will turn yellowish, and then coppery or blue. Solution: Just reduce the heat a bit! When I finally poured it into ingots, the ingots didn't have that brilliant 'silver-chrome' look to them, but more of a blue hue to them. Is this lead worth saving? Again, what you're seeing is the lead becoming oxidised a bit. If you reduce heat slightly, and flux before pouring ingots-- which is the proper procedure-- the ingots will be shiny. The hotter ya get 'em, the less shiny they'll be. Yup, the lead is worth saving. I know it's common to blame anything unexpected on "contaminants" in lead, but I'm sure someone with a lot of lead pouring experience will confirm my advice here. Be safe and best of luck! Edited June 30, 2008 by sagacious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) Agree with "sagacious" that blue, copper, or gold oxide crust on an overheated melt is usually an indicator of good soft lead, as is this same appearance on a hardened ingot. Another indicator of lead purity I've noticed is depressed veins on the top ingot surface exposed to air.The more hardening metals alloyed into the lead the more even and satin shiny the top ingot surface. In my experience mirror shiny is a tin content indicator. Edited June 30, 2008 by hawnjigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Grump Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Again, what you're seeing is the lead becoming oxidised a bit. If you reduce heat slightly, and flux before pouring ingots-- which is the proper procedure-- the ingots will be shiny. The hotter ya get 'em, the less shiny they'll be. Yup, the lead is worth saving. Err...'scuse a Newbie question here....but what is flux and how does one do it to lead? Thanks UG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin Posted June 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Flux is something that you add to your lead when it is melted to remove the impurities. Some use bees wax or something like Frankfort Arsenal lead cleaner . I've heard of others using sawdust and stirring it around in the melted lead then skimming off the impurities off the top of the melted lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big-D Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 I was under the impression that "Flux" was something to make the lead "flow" better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 UG, if you use the "Search" toolbar I remember seeing some excellent member contributions explaining flux and fluxing. Its a valuable tool and I find that beeswax works best for me. Found some beeswax candles cheap at a garage sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Err...'scuse a Newbie question here....but what is flux and how does one do it to lead?Thanks UG No worries-- you don't learn unless you ask. Fluxing is fairly simple. It's done to remove oxides, some impurities, and to re-combine the oxidised tin back into the melt. This conserves lead, reduces dross and oxide formation, helps reduce the likelyhood of incomplete pours, and makes fluxing easier. Briefly: Before pouring (or pouring ingots), you add a small quantity of fluxing material (say, about a teaspoon or less) to your pot of lead. If you use wax, it will quickly melt. Stir it into the lead as much as possible, taking care to scrape the edges of the pot. Use caution, and use a long-handled spoon, since the wax will usually catch fire and flame-up for a short time. Keep stirring and you'll see a bunch of black dust and crud floating on the lead. Skim that off, and you're set to begin your pouring session. What you won't see is the tin and lead that have been returned to the melt-- and that's good. Pouring will go smoother and easier. If you don't flux, and you just skim off all that frothy lead scum floating on the molten lead, you're probably removing much of the tin component of the lead alloy-- and that's bad. Plus, you're just wasting good lead that could have been recombined with the melt, and also making your pouring more problematic. As others have noted, it's best to do a search, as some folks have spent considerable time typing out some very helpful info on fluxing, and you'll benefit if you take the time to read what's been written. Good luck, and be safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 ...helps reduce the likelyhood of incomplete pours, and makes fluxing easier. ... Sorry, meant to say: makes pouring easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 This has been mentioned by others, but want to add that my tool of choice for stirring flux and skimming dross in a small batch melt is the small quarter(coin) size cup Lee ladle with the wooden handle. Also want to suggest avoiding plastic handle tools around hot lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basseducer Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 hawnjigs, I also use one of those small ladles, but I drilled 1/8 inch hole in the bottom. Now when I scoop the crud I let the good lead drip back into the pot and all that is left in the ladle is the crud. Works great. TJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 TJ, huh, now theres an idea. A drain hole or few might be especially useful when skimming wheel weight clips with a larger ladle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basseducer Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) Yeah, it works great for that as well. You do have to get the ladle hot or it won't flow. TJ Edited July 1, 2008 by Basseducer add info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Good stuff here, guys! I use two spoons. The first is a long-handled 'serving' spoon that works well for stirring the melt, as well as light skimming chores. The wide blade skims the crud off the surface quickly, and it takes up very little space on my pouring bench. The second is a large long-handled slotted spoon that is secured to an 18" piece of hickory with a stainless hose clamp. It works exceptionally well for removing clips and dross when melting down tire weights or scrap lead. The wooden handle offers good grip even with gloves on, and always stays plenty cool. The longer handle also comes in handy when fluxing a large pot of tire weight lead with a bit too much wax, and the melt flames up a little more than usual! I got both spoons at a local thrift store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 "sagacious", haven't tried yet, do you flux tire weights before or after removing clips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 "sagacious", haven't tried yet, do you flux tire weights before or after removing clips? Always before. Be sure to add enough flux to thoroughly wet the clips. The recovery is better and simpler, since the flux changes the surface tension of the melt and causes the clips to all pop to the top of the melt for easier removal. The lead that had previously wetted some fraction of the clips all beads up and returns to the melt. If you light the smoke, you'll notice that the heat gain helps fluidize the melt, and the crud rapidly separates into a 'less-wetting' compound, and thus retains less lead droplets. I'll melt down a large pot of tire weights, and when the melt is almost, aaaaalllmost all melted, I'll drop in the flux and light the smoke. The flux, flames, and stirring all removes/separates the gunk, and the added heat instantly melts any unmelted tire clips. This results in a savings of time and expense, plus manages melt temp control-- vs waiting for every last ww to melt and then fluxing. Clips get skimmed, and the quality/'purity' of the melt is assessed, and if good, ingots are poured immediately. However, if the surface of the melt shows the telltale 'gooseflesh' of tiny particles wetted in the lead melt, I'll flux again to remove them. This process results in 'clean' lead ingots with no entrained foreign matter or particulates in the lead, and that generally doesn't require fluxing later. Sometimes though, a batch of lead ingots may require fluxing upon later remelting, so one should always re-assess the melt before starting a pouring session. When in doubt: flux the melt. Ingots that are poured at too high a temp are almost guaranteed to require additional fluxing upon melting later. This is another good reason to light the smoke when fluxing scrap lead and pouring ingots-- you want to pour the ingots at just the right temp, and not too hot. Too hot also allows the potential for other deleterious alloying or contaminating elements to dissolve into the lead-- such as zinc tire weights. Lighting the smoke provides a temporary temperature spike that doesn't leave the melt overheated when you're ready to pour ingots-- or ready to start pouring lures. Be safe, and good luck all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Lead residue crusted & plated onto skimmed clips has always bothered me, and including the clips in the fluxing process sounds like a great solution to minimizing the amount of lead going into our trash landfill with them. That idea along with the drain holed clip skimmer will almost make my next wheel weight melt a pleasure. Now if I can only scrounge some WW... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
