Poll votes

[redg8r]

Spike the reason for the question was me and my friend are looking to start a forum type site for are kids that are pre teens. It is going to be about fishing the kids do and they have a safe place to chat about fishing,show off their pictures of the fish they caught and lures they made that kind of stuff..........

We don't let them ask questions here because people get mad when a question has been asked before and leave a negative response or just say use the search.

Free advice:

I'll recommend you research that idea as much as possible.

You'll want to know straight off, that offering ANY forum for children under 13 (preteens) will require you to file physically signed paperwork from each child's legal guardian, as mandated by the federal COPPA Act. It is a federal offense for you to offer an account without it.

We conform to this mandate as required by law.

To say "people get mad when a question has been asked before and leave a negative response" You should join a few other boards that carry a member base our size if you haven't yet & see the troublemakers who freely troll those boards. TU members are among the most generous, helpful & positive minded folks in the fishing community & the volunteer staff here is instrumental in keeping it that way.

Not trying to criticize your plan, it's a novel idea. If you want to start any online community, just be prepared to maintain it constantly, security flaws popup every few weeks (Ask Del or Erik Moore over at Tacklemaking.com what it's like to get hacked.) requiring software patches, software upgrades, daily moderation, probably HOURLY moderation for a kids site (they are the most vulnerable type of member, spammers & others love to prey on innocence, they'll click anything). All that will need to be tested on an exact duplicate of your live site (essentially doubling your webspace) so you don't screw up & break your live site.

Be prepared to possibly quit your hobby/luremaking job, because the site can take all that time away, including any fishing time you had. If you're like me hopefully you can offset those losses by enjoying the reward of watching your members advance, evolve their craft, startup businesses or just catch nice fish, as that's all I have to account for my involvement here over the years. I've said it before in here, my hobby was luremaking, that's why I started TU. My "hobby" has now, inadvertently become making sure YOU further your luremaking hobby or business. I never intended to to run this site as a business. I personally relate & enjoy doing everything discussed here.

You asked what it costs to run a site like this, All I care to tell you is that it's taken @ 6 years for the advertising revenue to cover the software licensing & webhosting. The revenue is so small that Google doesn't even 1099 me. I could make more money at a day at the dog track.

I personally hate obtrusive ads, but if you guys suggesting the site support itself some other way, we can do that, just be prepared to close a pop-up or pop-under ad every time you navigate, just like on BFHP or a few other luremaking boards.

[Vodkaman]

Allowing the intrusive ads in would be a huge step backwards in my opinion.

The subject of new member questions has been flogged to death (a bit like the new member questions), so I'm going to give it another kick. Personally, when I joined, I was overwhelmed by the expertise and knowledge of the members. Recognising how basic my questions were that I wanted to ask, I searched rather than asking. I think in hind sight, I should have asked, as searching for the answers was difficult because I did not know the terminology, or special words to search for.

Sometimes the questions are so basic, that we have no choice but to suggest the search button. But rather than a search, we should direct the member to the tutorials section that Bruce has done such a good job with. There they can get a feel for the processes and the terminology.

It is largely the new members that bring life to the forum, so we should look after them. Open a new window, do a quick search and paste a few links to get them started. Include the search words that you used. The new member would very quickly get the hang of how it works and come back with meaningful and more challenging questions.

[redg8r]

I agree on some points & disagree on others.

Allowing the intrusive ads in would be a huge step backwards in my opinion.

Agreed, but it's a staple in many ad supported sites around the web.

The subject of new member questions has been flogged to death (a bit like the new member questions)

I think the community has handled this issue relatively well, admit it, they could be worse.

Personally, when I joined, I was overwhelmed by the expertise and knowledge of the members. Recognizing how basic my questions were that I wanted to ask, I searched rather than asking. I think in hind sight, I should have asked, as searching for the answers was difficult because I did not know the terminology, or special words to search for.

That is/was my next task, to put basic, comprehensive, & simple how-to info on the homepage for beginners.

It is largely the new members that bring life to the forum........

The new member would very quickly get the hang of how it works and come back with meaningful and more challenging questions.

That's relative, remember, "New members" don't always mean "inexperienced members" we have new guys sign up regularly who have been in the biz for years, they simply just took awhile to find us.

If you want to volunteer the next 6 years telling members where to buy Devcon, you can, but I want a better topcoat, sprayable, instant UV cure, or simply hang to dry. This is just one common topic. We have existing TU members using better products & better processes daily, but they aren't discussed because the newer members are too quick to "recycle" the same answers they received a few months prior instead of pushing that envelope & sharing their improvements, like we used to. That's fine, but there's nothing going on to entice our vets to participate anymore, unless there's something else to be learned.

I use you as an example because you are atypical to what I've just said. You bring relevant & challenging discussion to the group. It's come with your share of judgment and I've defended you publicly & privately many times because I know you are truly passionate about advancing the craft.

Rest assured, there will come a day when you no longer feel challenged, or feel like there's nothing new to be gained here @ TU & you will join the ranks of who I'm trying to save, who BTW, hold massive rewards to the new or "inexperienced" members you defend.

Some eluded to making TU an e-book, or somehow publishing our info for a fee. OK, in that respect, lets lock down the site to the first 1000 registered users, or make it invite only. We could congregate here privately & publish enough advanced info to put out a solid e-book every month, wonder how well that would go over?

Alot of you are discounting the founding members of this site. I had a chance to meet just a few of them in Missouri. The talent shown & processes discussed there in real-time blew my mind. I consider myself relatively talented in many luremaking trades, (cmon, iv'e read every topic here) but I was truly humbled.

[KcDano]

Since many new members inquire where to purchase basic componets, blanks, wood stock and such. And ultimately are directed to online sources. Why not offer a starter kit with or without a basic E-book that takes the builder from start to completion. The kit would contain everything needed with the exception of readily available materials sold at retail stores: Paint, Devcon...etc.. There is only one tutorial posted on the site that takes lure construction from raw wood to completion. The e-book could also contain some of the tutorials that are in pdf format to give alternate methods and techniques of construction. This idea might apply to the other types of baits also.

Judging by the volume of questions posted by new members who are reluctant for whatever reason to search the wealth of information contained within the forum posts. Perhaps a starter kit and e-book would offer a convenience in which some would willing spend the money for if reasonably priced. It won't solve all the problems, but it could help.

I have my doubts about the discount for existing members as being fair to the community as a whole. This seems to stack the deck against a new member with applicable knowledge and whom is willing to share. What incentive is there for knowledgeable new member to contribute if the reward is paying the same fee as a new member who doesn't contribute at all or to lesser degree.

Edited July 6, 2008 by KcDano

[mark poulson]

Jerry,

I, for one, would put up with pop up ads, if it meant keeping the site fee free.

I say that because I don't want to face another, "How much will it cost in six months?" scenario, like gas prices or food. I think that kind of a thing is a big turnoff to fun.

I realize it costs to host a forum and website like this. I just hope you can find an advertising method that pays, and yet is less obtrusive.

In my first post, I suggested you visit Westernbass.com and look at their site as a model of one way a site is setup and run without fees.

On their forum pages, they have an advertising banner at the top of the age which loads automatically, with direct links to the advertisers.

Every time someone on the forum clicks on an advertiser's link from the forum, the site gets credit. I don't know exactly how it works. Like Jack the Ripper said when they asked him how many women he'd killed, "How do I know? I'm a murderer, not an accountant!".

Well, I'm a carpenter, not an internet expert, and I don't have a clue. But I do know the method Western Bass uses seems to be working.

I think Nathan might know some of the people involved, since he has a "west coast presence", and is well known and highly regarded out here.

I say this because I want your site to succeed, pay for itself so you don't have to come out of pocket, and still be a fee-free site, which I think will severely limit it, and may eventually doom it.

I've learned, over 60+ years, that I'm pretty average in how I think, so I'm guessing my view of pay-to-play sites is pretty common.

[King Bait Co.]

This is off the subject but can you add a How To Cook Fish fourm?

[Fatman]

I'm sorry I missed the poll, but I've had to cut-off Internet at home and only get it at work when I have free time. Being in the middle of bankruptcy there would be no way for me to pay a subscription fee, and I would truly miss this site.

I've posted advice where I could and learned a lot that saved me some time.

Fatman

[Smallie]

It appears to me that less than 1.5% really cares what happens

to TU. Only 76 votes out of 6000 plus members.

Very disappointing!!

Coley - I didn't even know there was a pole. I go on vacation for a week, come back home and see the site is down and find out there was a pole of some sort. Tonight is the first I have heard of this issue.

Where is the post or pole that says "hey guys, what do you think? or what ever it said?"

[Smallie]

I'm not surprised there were only a few votes and comments during the poll. Like others, I suspect, I just stumbled on the poll the last day it was active. I usually surf straight to the Hardbait Forum and seldom check other parts of TU except to peruse the Gallery occasionally. So I wouldn't conclude that low response numbers is a sign of low interest in the lure making community. As far as I am aware, this is the largest and certainly the best luremaking site on the internet. As is obvious in the forums, there are plenty of guys who use the site quite heavily. Inlcuding me!

Bob - I do the same thing except it is plastics. I have an icon that takes me directly to the forum that covers my number one interest.

[Hookfin]

I missed the poll...I would pay for what I use..for example I just use "soft baits" I would use the "tackle store" but the rest of the TU site I no go because I do soft baits. I would suggest a subscription by use which is open to expand. When a new subscriber comes to TU in time they may expand. Great site...rough times...keep it simple.