Fraley Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 Hi Guys, I'm having some trouble of the mold chipping on the edge of the cavity when I try to take out my wooden master. The 1st one I made was great and now the next 6 or 7 are all chipping or some of the pop is coming with the master. I have been putting vasoline on the master, but I'm not sure what to do. Any help would be great. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 For my time and effort, I use Bondo whenever possible for this type of mold. Plaster always absorbs a significant fraction of the mold release (vaseline), so removal of a hard-material master always brings with it the risk of damaging the mold. Try Bondo, and as long as your master is well-designed, you won't have that problem. Other than that, by far the most frequent problem facing the new pop mold maker (in my opinion), is patience. If you work with plaster, you have to forget about instant gratification. When I make a plaster mold, I wrap it in a plastic bag and let it sit for 48 hours in a warm spot. That process is critical to developing maximum strength in the plaster. Then I remove the plastic wrap, and let the mold sit-- untouched-- for two weeks while it cures and dries fully. After that time passes, I'll remove the master and do any additional prep needed. By that time, the plaster is well-cured and strong, and chipping of the cavity edges is avoided. If you try to remove the master too soon, you risk damaging the mold. Another trick is to use Sculpy polymer clay to make the master. After baking, it retains some flexibility, so removing a difficult master from hard plaster is fairly simple and easy. Wood doesn't have that flexibility. Hope this helps, good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraley Posted July 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 Thanks Saga, I guess I will have to give it more drying time. I was letting it dry about 30 min before trying to take the wooden master out of the mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 More drying time will help. I'd be interested in knowing what shape your master is. Sometimes the shapes are much more complicated than folks think. One bait in particular, that I designed, gave me fits. I finally had to make the master mold in 2 pieces; and that was for an open mold configuration. The bait I did was a legless lizard and I haven't shown that one yet as it's been my secret weapon in the tournys. www.novalures.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGrant Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 Definitly more drying time. One thing to remember with wood masters is they swell in the presence of moisture. (Even with vasaline). You need to make sure that the master itself is dried out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGrant Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 Also one thing you might want to try is using some rattle can laquer finish to seal the wood master. That way the master won't absorb moisture and with vasaline will help release the master from the mold easier. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Bait Co. Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 If the chipping is a problem with POP. I would try and make them out of RTV silicone if its a one piece mold. I know how POP chips belive me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJS Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Farley - You say, "The 1st one I made was great and now the next 6 or 7 are all chipping or some of the pop is coming with the master. BIG QUESTION: Are you trying to make additional molds from the same master??? Or are you making additional molds using different shaped masters??? 1-piece or 2-piece molds??? Only once have I made a baked master out of Sculpy (similar rigidity as wood). Great stuff to work with. But, when casting a 2-piece mold using Sculpy masters that have been baked, YOU CAN"T PERMIT THE CASTING MEDIUM TO OVERLAP THE SIDES OF THE MASTER EVEN JUST A TINY BIT, or you'll never get the master out. For example, if your master is round-sided, don't let the PoP creep up the side past the widest point... or your in trouble. Sometimes I'll use a marker pen to outline the widest point going completely around the master tip to tail. Then when pressing the master into the first layer of PoP, I don't let the PoP creep up past the marker line. Then I apply vasoline to both the dry PoP and the master before pouring the second layer. I coated the sculpy master with 1 coat of 5-min, 2-part epoxy, then apply a lite sheen of vasoline before casting. B**ch to hold onto them but needs to be done. I suggest expoxying your master too for a slick finish that will release easier than one thats not slick. Also - 30 minute drying time for PoP is waaay too short. Think a couple of days. Sometimes I'll place my masters on the dashboard of a HOT closed up car facing the sun. They'll dry out pretty fast then... or do a slow bake at low temps in the oven... then, when completely dry, take the master out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraley Posted July 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Hi HJS, I was using the same wooden master for all of the molds and they were 1 piece molds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I ony use my master to make one mold. From that I pour a bunch of baits. I then select the best ones and make my main production mold. Plastic is a lot easier to get out of POP than a piece of wood. www.novalures.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraley Posted July 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Thanks Nova, That's what I was trying to accomplish. Once I get a good one from my wooden master that's what I will do. Question: Do you pour the plaster then place your master in and push it down or do you put your master in 1st into the container your going to use then pour the plaster over it? The reason I ask is because I have been putting my master down 1st then pouring over it because I liked how flat and smooth it was when I would pop it out of the container I was using and thought it would make for percise pouring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 The only time I pour the POP in first and set the master into the plaster is when I'm making a 2 piece mold. Other than that I glue the master to the bottom and pour over it. www.novalures.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraley Posted July 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Thanks Nova, Maybe that's my problem. I have been putting vaseline in the container, then vaseline on the master, so when I press it down it would kind of stick to the bottom of the container, but maybe by not using glue a little of the plaster is getting under the master even though it does not look like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJS Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 What Nova and others said. If you have at least one good mold then use that mold to make several masters from plastic. Then, using those new plastic masters, make a second mold with 3 or more cavities side by side. Its difficult to make a 1-piece mold for round masters and have the resulting lures look exactly like the originals. The resulting pours will have a decisive flat side to them. 2-piece molds are best suited for roundish lures. But keep in mind that making a 2-piece mold is several leaps more difficult than making a 1-piece mold... but can be done. Do a search for "2-piece" molds and you'll find several good threads describing the techniques. For 1-piece molds, definitely superglue the squeeky clean masters to the squeeking clean base THEN apply a thin sheen of Vasoline befor pouring in the PoP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraley Posted July 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Thanks HJS, Is it difficult to get the mold out of the container you are using with it being super glued? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Not at all. You don't put any more glue than a few drops; just enough to hold it down. www.novalures.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Bait Co. Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Fraley if your using a wooden master RTV silicone would be the best way. I think it would be easier to remove the master from RTV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
