Are we different in the UK

[philB]

Hi

I can now say, having spread my wings and attended the TU meet in April, that I have been to America and fished. I thought I would put down some of my fishing observations.

I love my Pike fishing here in the UK and have an interest naturally with Muskie, when a pike angler fishes in the UK he very rarely picks up a lure rod but will head out armed with natural baits some of which are not so natural. It is accepted here that if you wish to catch a real big fish then you will place a static bait on the bottom of the river or lake and wait this is because our big Northern pike are scavengers before predators. That bait can be a natural fish present in the water but can also be alien and sea fish are a popular choice amongst the pikers here especially oily sea fish such as Mackrel and Sardine (having said that the British record Northern Pike is a 46.5 lb fish caught on a Creek Chub Pikey Lure !!!). How many American anglers would consider this type of fishing for Muskie ???, has anyone tried static deadbaits for Muskie or is it just the accepted way that to fish for Muskie you use a lure ??.

Another thing struck me in a big way. A much larger percentage of Americans fish or hunt, it is a way of life in the States and everything seems to embrace these pastimes. You guys are privileged with access to these amazing places such as the Lake we fished, Pomme de Terre, if this water was here the authorities would do their utmost to keep folk away from it or impose too many restrictions. A 'for instance' is our Lake District, a lot of the lakes in Cumbria you cannot even take a powered craft on to them !! if you want to get to the other end which is maybe 4 miles you have to row there or haul the boat out and drive down to put it back in again. Public access is heavily restricted in the UK and you are more likley to see signs saying 'NO FISHING', 'TRESSPASERS WILL BE PROSECUTED' or 'PRIVATE KEEP OUT'.

In the UK we have to purchace every year a rod and line licence, this does not give you the right to fish only to use a rod and line for fishing and covers 2 rods, if you wish to use more than 2 rods then you have to buy a second licence the cost of these annualy is

[hazmail]

Hi Phil- I will second that, I could not imagine half the U.S population sitting on the edge of a lake with those weird 20'+ 'Coarse Fishing' poles, firing corn with a slingshot, out into the lake either - This type of fishing is becoming more popular here too, can't imagine me having the patience, something you poms are renowned for. Virgin Airlines are opening up a route to the US @about $1200, which is about 1/2 what I paid, might make it again. pete

[KcDano]

Yes there are plenty of people here in the states who use live bait and real critters. In Florida they once used large shiners( a type of minnow) to fish for bass, I don't know if that is still is the case or not. The nightcrawler worm has caught about every variety of freshwater fish you can think of and many people still fish with them. When anglers here fish for catfish they almost exclusively use dead bait, live bait or a prepared bait. I couldn't give you a percentage but I bet there are plenty of Muskie fisherman who use live bait, Spike might better answer that question. I guess most consider it more of a challenge to catch a fish with a artificial bait. Yes, we are privileged to have so many resources at our disposal.

[Vodkaman]

What I remember is fishing matches along a featureless canal, with a hundred other anglers. All using size 20 spade end hooks or smaller and match stick sized floats. The winning weight, quite often just a few ounces. I think the available hook sizes go as small as 32, just large enough to hide in a bread crumb.

At large, professional competitions, it is not unheard of for an angler to hook into a 2lb tench and to snap the line off. Because he could catch more weight in tiddlers in the time it would take to land the heavy, strong fighting tench.

My friend, a very keen angler, used a roach pole, with a short length of elastic at the end. You would dismantle the pole to bring the fish in. I myself built a 14.5 ft rod for my fishing. It looked like a walking stick next to his pole.

Ah! those were the days.

[Spike-A-Pike]

Yes Phil - when the bite is slow, it's not uncommon to put a 8"-10" live sucker hooked with a quick strike rig (a single hook through the lips and a treble with one straightened hook in the upper back) in addition to a second pole with a spinner, in-line spinner, or some form of hard bait. Just sitting and waiting for something to bite would put me to sleep. Are you sure UK pike, even the younger/smaller ones don't get aggressive and go after spinners, spoons, or crank baits???

Just a few quick facts:

The current Muskie record is held by Wisconsin angler Louis Spray, with a 69-pound, 11-ounce fish he caught in 1949. Second spot is held by a 67-pound, 8-ounce muskie caught by Wisconsin angler, Cal Johnson, also in 1949. Currently the number three muskie is held by Canadian Ken O'Brien fish, a whopping 65 pounds, October 16, 1988.

The North American northern pike record was set in 1940 @ 46 pounds, 2 ounces, caught in Sacandaga Reservoir, New York. Can you believe that there is only a few ounces difference between the UK and US pike records??? Cool.

Phil, Pete, and Dave; if/when you guys come back to the states, either for the Meet or just to visit, if we can find some open water we'll get in either some musky or pike fishing. But I want to take you to Wisconsin where we can do both on the same lakes, rivers, or flowages. Good day and good night ya' all.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Spike-A-Pike

[hazmail]

"flowages"??? Bruce , you had better put this one in Gene's 'Lure Making Terminology ' post. What's a "flowage"? pete

[Spike-A-Pike]

Simple Pete,

A body of water, such as a lake or reservoir, formed by usually deliberate flooding. From the late 1800s forward, waterways in Wisconsin have been blocked either by nature, in the form of beavers and wind storms, or man, using the water to power saw and grain mills. The water is normally slowed enough to force it out of it's banks, but normally there is some degree of water still flowing. Present day, water is used to generate hydro-electrical power or as part of the paper milling process.

That was a good question, I grew up around them and forget that most folks didn't grow up with 10,000 lakes in their state... I think Wisconsin and Minnesota are the only states in the U.S.; I'm not sure if Michigan is a member of that club or not? Do one of you Michigander's know what the lake count for Michigan is???

Edited July 6, 2008 by Spike-A-Pike

[diemai]

@ PhilB

Don't complain too much(though you surely have good cause for it) , I think , in Germany it's still worse than your described situation in the UK .

We are very familiar with those difficulties about boatfishing as well , that you mentioned .

Most likely no gas-engine powered boats allowed , and if they are(most likely on very big waters or public waterways) , you'd have to register your boat and/or pay for a license annually .

You hardly find places to slip your boat from a trailer , even a lot of places are not easy accessible by car , so when fishing from bank , you often have to carry all your gear for a more or less distance to the chosen fishing spot .

In many waters boat fishing is forbidden entirely , where it is allowed , you must most likely row .

Fishing restrictions are issued locally by the single German states(Bundesl

[Spike-A-Pike]

Well guys, I can't complain. My hunting and fishing license is totally FREE as an Illinois disabled veteran, trailer license is $48.00 a year, boat registration is initially $52.00 then renewals 3 yrs later are $45.00. In Wisconsin, as a non-resident, the annual cost is $50 for an individual or $65 for the family (includes children 16 & 17 years of age). I figured it out once, I think I pay about $50 or $60 a fish - anyone else paying less???

I tend to see it as paying $50 bucks a year for fishing licenses in the two states and everything else is an investment in my mental health care fund... Enjoy.

[King Bait Co.]

diemai your Green Party sounds a lot like PETA here in the U.S. The lady who is head of PETA is German I do belive. If I rember right I had seen a show were they connected the two groups together. PETA wants to ban hunting and fishing all together. It will never happen in my life time. Their is a show called Penn and Teller BS on a cable channel yes BS stands for bull:censored:. If you are able to see the show it will open your eyes to what these groups are about. They did a whole show on PETA it even shocked them. They have been proven supporters to enviormenta terrorist that burn buildings down and bomb buildings in the U.S. in the name of animal rights. In the short they are P.O.S. that don't even follow their own rules. Its a do what I tell you to do but don't look into what I do group. Sorry to get of the subject but these groups make me sick.

[philB]

Dieter

Last year I fished Lough Corrib with a pal of mine and we had several trips in the company of a German guy who fishes and stays there on a regular basis, he told us of the killing policy and how all the Carp he catches are undersized .

[philB]

Yes there are plenty of people here in the states who use live bait and real critters. In Florida they once used large shiners( a type of minnow) to fish for bass, I don't know if that is still is the case or not. The nightcrawler worm has caught about every variety of freshwater fish you can think of and many people still fish with them. When anglers here fish for catfish they almost exclusively use dead bait, live bait or a prepared bait. I couldn't give you a percentage but I bet there are plenty of Muskie fisherman who use live bait, Spike might better answer that question. I guess most consider it more of a challenge to catch a fish with a artificial bait. Yes, we are privileged to have so many resources at our disposal.

Hey Dan

Them fellas fishing for cats with bait have got it all wrong. Fly fishing is the way to go, a wooly bugger on a 5wt . Just a little tip I picked up off Lincoya whilst I was in his company , glad a 30lb'er didnt grab it though.

[philB]

Spike

Tempting, tempting, very very tempting.

[philB]

Hi Phil- I will second that, I could not imagine half the U.S population sitting on the edge of a lake with those weird 20'+ 'Coarse Fishing' poles, firing corn with a slingshot, out into the lake either - This type of fishing is becoming more popular here too, can't imagine me having the patience, something you poms are renowned for. Virgin Airlines are opening up a route to the US @about $1200, which is about 1/2 what I paid, might make it again. pete

Naaaah, we got the French and Italians to thank for the 'Pole'.

[Ogajiga]

Hey Euro guys, Thanks, that was very interesting, guess I won't be planning any fishing vacations out your way. In our island(s) state there is no ocean fishing license, and I was surprised to learn you had to pay to play on the continental US when I first crossed the ocean about 6-7 years ago. However, without license fee revenue here there is no stocking program & I have never seen a game warden to enforce size/season/bag limit rules. Shoreline fishing success here therefore requires skilled, creative, and often death defying solutions.

[KcDano]

Yes, I did forget about your flyrod adventure with catfish. Gene did offer you some good advice on the flyrod fishing for cats. However, he didn't mention his real secret. That being his abillity to custom cutting a hot dog in a manner that creates a action catfish find irresistable. He is so willing to share, but won't budge on that.

[diemai]

@ King Bait Co

Don't know nothing about the PETA except that they are the natural enemies of all anglers and hunters worldwide !

May well be possible , that their head is a German , since in the wide public over here obviously the welfare of animals is considered more important than the one of humans(at least mistreated animals always generate bigger headlines as crimes , violence or even murder against senior people) !

I also can frequently read of them in local fishing magazines about having lost for one more time a lawsuit against single persons or organisations involved into fishing or hunting over here:yeah: .

Their complaints and arguments are just of the most unbelieveable and foolish nature , so that no judge could follow them:yes: !

And we haven't yet lost hope , that things could also turn out better one day:wink: :

Since many years it was forbidden nationwide to keep your caught fish in a livewell net , you had(and have) to kill them instantly:( !

As a result , on a hot summer day you have to leave the waters edge before time , since you don't want your early day caught(and killed) fish to be rotten in the heat:eek: !

I consider this a massive impact on the planning of your rare leisure time:angry: !

But the newly reworked restrictions(2006) in the state of "Mecklenburg-Vorpommern" allow such livewells again , which is evident to me , that the common sense is not entirely lost , and we hope , that other states would follow soon:yay: .

@ philB

Off course this "Kill Policy" does not allow a very good stock of fish to grow over here and also that seldom bigger fish are caught .

This German guy , that you mentioned , might as well also not have caught legal sized carp , because there is another restriction about not stocking legal sized fish anymore into the waters , so there are a lot of small ones against few big ones , the "Kill Policy" probably removed the rest inbetween:( !

But this really depends on each single water:yes: .

Not to forget , that big carp are pretty clever , and most likely you don't catch them just like that !

In my local waters in Hamburg you hardly catch carp without special carp gear , especially not big ones .

But they are the ones to be caught frequently from March through December , since these carp guys are the pioneers of CPR over here , and many of us predator anglers have learned our lesson and follow them nowadays , though it is still illegal !

Here is a pic , that I took on the 23rd of May , saw this guy playing this fish from the bank , when passing by with my small boat .

I went ashore to look more , and he was so happy , that I took some pics with his own camera as well , since he was alone:lol: .

Also made some shots , when he released it again , it was his PB of 38 continental pounds , so almost 42 lbs:lol: .

Why , the heck , one should kill such a beauty , the quality of its flesh would be minor anyway !

Next season it would have gained another few pounds to probably make up for someones PB again !

@ hawnjigs

Not really worth it to take a trip to fish over here , though we still have some excellent pike waters , a good share of Europes largest are still caught in German waters , but only frequently fishing natives most likely catch these trophy fish .

Only option for a tourist might be to fish the coastal waters of the Baltic in "Mecklenburg-Vorpommern" . They have professional guiding there , a tourist license issue is possible and there are frequently big pike caught there at certain times of year .

But in general the numbers of fish caught over here are smaller , on good days(long time gone) over here I have caught and landed 5 or 6 legal sized pike:yes: , in other European nations ( Ireland , the Netherlands) you could maybe catch them by the dozens on excellent days !

Dieter

Edited July 6, 2008 by diemai
addition in text

[diemai]

Sorry , forgot to attach picture !

[hazmail]

Diemai - What do you do with those carp, eat them???????? They are in plague proportions here (like rabbits) and usually if they are caught, the are left on the bank, for pigs etc (they taste like mud). They are undermineing the river banks here, and are destroying the native fish habitat at an alarming rate. In the larger rivers they are netted and canned for pet food (that's when the rivers have water). pete

[diemai]

@ hazmail

Different countries , different habits , hahaha:lol: .

I have heard before, that rabbits and carp have turned to a plague in Australia , since the early colonists have imported them to keep up the old British habbits of hunting and fishing , as they where used to from home .

Eating carp has a long tradition over here , the fish is originated from Asia , normally they had(and still have) scales , the one pictured here doesn't , it is a hatchery form especially bred for easier handling in the kitchen .

They first brought them to northen Germany(don't know about the rest of the country and Europe)around the years 1100 to 1200 , when christian monks had christianized the local tribes .

Due to beeing not allowed to eat meat of animals during feasting times , these monks in their monastaries started out in carp hatchery those days , and since probably the tradition goes to eat carp for Xmas or even more for New Years Eve .

But usually these hatchery carp only live for three or four years , otherwise they'd get too big for the kitchen , also their quality of flesh gets worse , when older . Usually they have 4 to 7 lbs at this stage !

They also have a better taste during the cold season , since there are not so many small particles and algiae in the water at that time of year , also the fish don't eat so much as well anymore in colder water , thus not often digging the muddy sediment anymore .

But in Australia its always warmer than in Europe , those conditions are better for them to spawn , since they need very warm water for reproduction , over here they only do in very warm years(which nowadays occur more often) .

It is always the problem with such "alien" animals brought to a place , where they don't belong , we have troubles with a sort of crabs , that got to our North Sea harbors from Asia around 100 years ago in the ballast tanks of ocean liners .

These nasty critters have by now even reached Vienna through the Danube river , they are a disease to anglers , since they eat off your bait and snap line and leader !

There are times , that you can't just put out a baitfish or worm over here , a fish never has a chance to find it on time , these crabs are there first:mad: !

I only have one solution , like for your carp and rabbit plague as well :

Sell them to Asia , they eat anything over there:wink: !

PS : In my opinion a big carp outmatches any pike in terms of playing it , once hooked .

Only bad thing is , that you sometimes have to wait for days to get one on ! Nothing for me:lol:!

[King Bait Co.]

We have some lakes in Nebraska that have been over run with carp. They have carp days were you can fish for free just to see how much carp can be caught in a day. Last year at one lake they got 9,000 pounds and it didn't even make a dent in them. We throw them on the bank also so the cyotes, mountian lions and bobats eat them. or what ever is their for a fee meal. You guy in Germany have 9 out of 10 people that eat carp we have a 1 out of 10 that eat carp. Thats why we have such a problem with them most think they are a trash fish but they are fun to fight I will have to admit.

[diemai]

@ King Bait Co

So obviously same problem like in Australia , but at least in Nebraska you'd also have a cold season , when the carp won't taste that "muddy" .

But who knows , in these times of constantly rising prices , also for food , wether one day people would be happy about this widely untouched source ?

You could prepare the fish in many ways , I prefer it smoked(like most other fish as well) .

And , once biggger , these carp don't have natural enemies anymore to eat them , despite the big silure , but that one doesn't make a difference between carp and bass , ducks and small dogs:yes: !

Also inviting European carp cracks won't help , because they'd always release their fish !

And I am sure , that they won't be used to catch carp in numbers , one after another , since here they first have to feed a spot for some days over here , before fishing .

The fishing session usually takes not less than 24 hours , most likely the whole weekend or sometimes even days or weeks .

They use a quality tent with a camping bed inside , modern cable ,-or even radio strike alarms , that wake them up from even the deepest sleep at night and special rigs , that cause the fish to hook itself , no hauling back neccessary .

How big your local carp are and what bait and gear do you use to catch 'em ?

Greetz , Dieter

[King Bait Co.]

My father in law is a big carp fisherman. He uses corn the most on the bottom. I have seen him make some dough balls and boilies. He likes them for the fight so he acutally uses light tackle. He has got hi-vis Stren 6lb line. and 6' 6" medium to light medium rod and a medium open face reel. He has got a 19lb one last year and a couple of 12lb one's also. He does use a boat so they can run to were them down. He just gets picture a puts them back. He just loves the fight the put up. The true carp fisherman around here are the Russian's hand down. I have seen them with buckets full of carp and their like the KGB they won't tell you a thing. They will hide their bait when you go by them so you don't see it. The Asians use a white paste with white and blue glitter in it. We haven't figured out what it is yet. We can't talk back and fourth to well and they don't know the english words for the stuff they put in it. I assume they get most of the ingredents at the asian markets in town. I think we have got this thread a little of track wouldn't you say.

[diemai]

@ King Bait Co

Yeah , it got out of track a bit , hope Phil won't mind , but there is always something dynamic about different threads:huh: .

But this carpfishing in America and Europe(and the UK is the motherland of this way of carpfishing , as it is practised today over here)also might be considered to be one of those differences that Phil started out with !

Anyway , pretty nice fish , that your father-in-law catches !

I assume , that those Asian guys use a readily made so-called "trout dough" , very common stuff in our local trout ponds , biggest manufacturer of it is "Berkley's" .

Before the modern carp fishing over here came up from the UK , the old-timers over here used half boiled smaller potatoes , boiled in scented water , with,-or without peeling them .

The consistency has to be hard enough to keep the hook inside whilst casting , but yet soft enough to release it when setting the hook .

[hazmail]

diemai, KBC- there is an upside to this, Murray Cod here grow to huge proportions, 80 lb would be a big one and I think the record is 212 lb (back in late 1800's). The cod seem to be coming back, and this is assumed to be because of the carp, which they like to eat (live bait), the other is, the Asians here like them too, and you can see them on any day sitting on the banks of the lake, in Canberra city, catching them- thank god somebody likes them. pete