I need some help with powder paint

[sagacious]

I've got a whole heap of powder paint questions that hopefully you pros out there can help me with.

First, what do you guys feel is the brightest, most silvery chrome powder paint available? Right now I'm using Caswell's "extreme chrome", and while it has it's benefits, the result I get is more of a 'pewter', and not quite as silvery as I'd like to have. Since shiny objects are notoriously difficult to photograph with any accuracy, I can't get a good idea what the brightest chrome powder is from looking at pics on the web-- they all look the same to me. Is this as good as it gets? Do I need to apply a black undercoat, or do any other prep-work to brighten the color? Any tricks I'm missing?

Next, who has the best knock-your-socks-off glow powder paint? I have been using super-glow vinyl paint for years, but fishing heavy jigs on these Northern California rocky reefs takes a toll on vinyl paint. The super-glow vinyl gives me the light show I want, but not the durability I'd like-- is there a powder paint that will do the same? Can I add additional glow pigment to a glow powder to enhance the glow? How about multiple coats? Any advice appreciated!

Orange. I'd like to get my hands on some of the hottest, brightest, fluoro orange powder. Not just any orange, but "you'll need sunglasses to look at it" orange. Candy colors look bright, but they don't give me what I want. I'm undercoating with white pearl, is plain white-- or another color such as yellow-- a better undercoat? I use a clear powder overcoat, and that helps intensify some colors and give me the 'depth' I want. Who's got the hottest fluoro orange, and how do I get the best out of it?

I also need a really intense fluoro green. Again, candy colors aren't giving me the intensity I need. Maybe I'm using them wrong. How do I get the most out of candy colors?

Next is purple. I need a metallic purple (maybe a metallic sparkle purple?) that has a lot of color, but a lot of brightness to it. Not a dark, opaque, lifeless "liver" purple, but a purple you'd put on your racecar. Something with a lot of life and depth to it. What's the best undercoat, and where can I get something like this? Is the type of the paint (poly, epoxy) something to consider here?

LOL! I'm way over my bag-limit on questions! I realize these are not your standard bass jig colors, but I know that some of you guys have a wealth of experience with powder paint-- and hopefully with these colors. If I haven't provided enough info, just let me know what you need. Any help or powder painting tricks will be much appreciated.

Thanks a million!

sagacious

[kelly]

The only thing I can help with is the glow powder paint. Pro tec super glow is my favorite glow powder paint. Dip white then the color. Others like to use the same color as a base then use the colored glow over that. It will be a preference. On the silver I wish you luck and hope cadman can save us. I have not found one I like.

[Ogajiga]

Never powder painted and haven't liquid painted for years, but...has anyone tried LureCraft's "Super Highlight Luster Pigments" in their epoxy top coats? This might be a powder grade of Hagen's "Crystallina" fine glitter which I really liked for chameleon color change flash effects, and might enhance the candy coats without obscuring them.

edit: for those unfamiliar with this type of glitter it wets out transparent and is very different from the foil types which have a peppery effect on the underlying color.

Edited July 8, 2008 by hawnjigs

[reeves]

Wow Sagacious, you really are on a different color wheel than the one I spin. I was really anxious to offer some assistance here until I read the colors you are after. I do like Caswell's powder and they have some super colors, but I'm sure you have already researched there. Tiger Drylac is another company that has some brilliant colors. I am going to have to pass at this point. Cadman will have to bail us out on this one and I know he will offer some good info as he has dealt with many many powder manufacturers.

Like Kelly stated, I believe a white base coat is required for all flourescent colors.

Good luck, the answer will come.

George

[sagacious]

The only thing I can help with is the glow powder paint. Pro tec super glow is my favorite glow powder paint. Dip white then the color.

...

Kelly,

Thank you, I'll check on the Pro-tec super glow. What size containers is it sold in, and where are you buying it?

[sagacious]

...has anyone tried LureCraft's "Super Highlight Luster Pigments" in their epoxy top coats?

...

Don't have the super hi-lite stuff, but I have used the regular hi-lites in epoxy top coats. Looks great.

[sagacious]

Wow Sagacious, you really are on a different color wheel than the one I spin. I was really anxious to offer some assistance here until I read the colors you are after. I do like Caswell's powder and they have some super colors, but I'm sure you have already researched there. Tiger Drylac is another company that has some brilliant colors. I am going to have to pass at this point. Cadman will have to bail us out on this one and I know he will offer some good info as he has dealt with many many powder manufacturers.

Like Kelly stated, I believe a white base coat is required for all flourescent colors.

Good luck, the answer will come.

George

George, thanks for your response. It's nice to have folks step up to lend a hand. I just had a look at the Tiger Coatings site, and some of their colors sound good, like 'purple metallic', but I can't seem to find their color samples (examples). I'm confused by so many different "chrome" colors; they've got a whole passel of 'silvers'. I'll send them an email.

[cadman]

Sagacious,

Give me to the end of today, and I will try to answer some questions for you, I was out last night and didn't read the thread until this morning.

[Fatman]

Look out ordering Lure Crafts Poly Sil paint,

"Shipping Information Due to the high flammability of Poly-Sil paint, it is considered a hazardous material by the U.S. Department of Transportation. Due to this fact, Poly-Sil paint and thinner cannot be shipped by air. A per package hazardous shipping fee of $20.00 is charged by the shipping companies. This fee must be included with your order. Please bear with us as shipping regulations may change without notice. ADD HAZMAT LINE ITEM TO YOUR ORDER FOR HAZARDOUS SHIPPING COST. Catalyst only does NOT require the fee. "

If you want to spend the extra $20 bucks that's up to you. I use testors model paint then clear epoxy coat with the stuff from Janns Netcraft.

Fatman

[kelly]

Kelly,

Thank you, I'll check on the Pro-tec super glow. What size containers is it sold in, and where are you buying it?

The manufacture is component systems. I have purchased it at cabelas and barlows but the best place to buy it would be at TJs tackle (dayooper) on this site. It says it glows up to 16 hours. Have not tested just my favorite. TJs will sell it in 2oz 4oz or 1# for a fair price.

[kelly]

See the videos on there also, he has helped alot of people here. You can see how a fluid bed works and I would suggest having one. Cadman is on board and is the most experieced!

[cadman]

First, what do you guys feel is the brightest, most silvery chrome powder paint available? I

[sagacious]

The manufacture is component systems. I have purchased it at cabelas and barlows but the best place to buy it would be at TJs tackle (dayooper) on this site. It says it glows up to 16 hours. Have not tested just my favorite. TJs will sell it in 2oz 4oz or 1# for a fair price.

Thanks Kelly, that's just the info I was looking for! I was hoping to be able to buy in 1lb quantity if possible. I will check out TJ's tackle.

[sagacious]

Ted, thank you for the detailed reply to my long list of questions.

I pour a lot of large jigs for saltwater use. Mostly in the 3 to 8oz range, and I pour them from ww lead so they can handle the rocks and reefs better. These larger sizes take longer to cool, and so usually come out of the mold with a slightly frosted finish, instead of the mirror-finish I get with smaller jigs which cool faster. So, alas, the clearcoat over shiny lead technique doesn't give me what I'm hoping for.

The best silver finish I have achieved is to foil the jig, scale texture it, and clearcoat with clear powder. That gives me a really superb silvery finish and excellent durability, but foiling a large jig takes a fair amount of time. I know I probably can't get exactly that from powder, but I'd like to see if I can get closer than I am now.

I'll take a pic of the Caswell extreme chrome and post it for your consideration tomorrow. Looks good, but it looks more like pewter than bright chrome. I do not apply a clearcoat of any type over it.

I've been using a white base coat for all colors except black. I've been told that the intensity of glow coatings is a fundamental property of their thickness. Like you said, thicker coat = more glow. This is easy to achieve with glow vinyl paint, as you simply add another coat until you get what you want-- but I reckon that's possible with powder too. Like you, I use the regular glow, as it seems to offer the brightest phosphorescence. What type of glow powder are you using?

I know it sounds crazy, but some of the small rockfish (prey species) here are an intense bright orange color. And so, a hot orange color always seems to get bit well, especially by the larger fish. That blaze orange sounds good-- I need something that's intense orange, and not a lighter 'Tang' orange, if that makes sense. The candy colors (Caswell, anyway) give me a thinner coat, and lack the opacity I'd like to have.

I will check out the Drylac custom Imron and candy purples. My purple jigs are all-purple, or may have a thin white belly, but that's not critical. Automotive candy purple is the only purple I've found that will give me what I'm looking for. So, do I understand you right, don't bake the purple after it's applied over a white base? Ideally, what I'd like to have is a white base (if required), a purple coat(s), and a clear-- all baked for maximum durability.

This is exactly what I was hoping for, Ted-- some hands-on, practical info on getting the most out of these colors. And I hear ya, much of this powder stuff requires experimentation to see what you'll end up with-- so no worries about accountability LOL! I would like to have a look at the multi-color tutorial, so I'll shoot you a pm.

Thanks very much to everyone for their assistance here.

Eric

[yankee jigger]

Hey Sagalicious,

For the silver look,how about a dremmel tool with a buffing wheel???Then epoxy????

Cadman,great info!!!!!!

[cadman]

I pour a lot of large jigs for saltwater use. Mostly in the 3 to 8oz range, and I pour them from ww lead so they can handle the rocks and reefs better. These larger sizes take longer to cool, and so usually come out of the mold with a slightly frosted finish, instead of the mirror-finish I get with smaller jigs which cool faster. So, alas, the clearcoat over shiny lead technique doesn't give me what I'm hoping for. Yes those are big baits compared to what I pour.

The best silver finish I have achieved is to foil the jig, scale texture it, and clearcoat with clear powder. That gives me a really superb silvery finish and excellent durability, but foiling a large jig takes a fair amount of time. I know I probably can't get exactly that from powder, but I'd like to see if I can get closer than I am now. Believe me I’ve tried about 12 different silvers not all chrome, and only a few have passed my test, but I’m picky. I have tried silver chrome spray on, and I got the dull effect on the jig right away after I clear coated it. Silver, gold and copper chrome are hard colors to get to work. I’ve tried Tiger Drylac, silver, gold and copper mirror chrome powders, but I did not get the effect that was stated. I then called them up, and inquired. They told me those colors only come out that bright and shiny, only after the item has been highly polished or plated. Well that sucks that just makes me add more processes to my painting. I can’t make a jig and sell it for $5 each, to absorb plating costs, so back to the drawing board. That was a costly venture to say the least.

I'll take a pic of the Caswell extreme chrome and post it for your consideration tomorrow. Looks good, but it looks more like pewter than bright chrome. I do not apply a clearcoat of any type over it. I only apply clearcoat usually to jigs that have eyes, so they don’t fall off, or if requested by a customer for better rock protection.

I've been using a white base coat for all colors except black. I've been told that the intensity of glow coatings is a fundamental property of their thickness. Like you said, thicker coat = more glow. This is easy to achieve with glow vinyl paint, as you simply add another coat until you get what you want-- but I reckon that's possible with powder too. Like you, I use the regular glow, as it seems to offer the brightest phosphorescence. What type of glow powder are you using? Your statements are right. However I only use a white base coat for fluorescent colors. I found by using a colorimeter and gloss meter at work that a white base coat had no added value under colors like black, brown, navy blue, or any dark color. But that was my own study at work with some customers and our powder paint guy. I’m not a paint specialist or chemist, so I can’t verify that 100%. Also, at what point do we all stop making it into a masterpiece, after all it’s only a jig or a spinnerbait. We’ll lose more than we care to think about after the beautiful paint job goes on. Trust me I’m picky, but I have to draw the line somewhere too. Eric, I use Herbies Magic Dust, and Tiger Drylac. I’ll post the part #s tonight, as I’m at work. Get the following catalogs from Tiger Drylac (RAL, Metallic’s, Special Effects and Specialties) Here is the link TIGER Coatings: Color Charts / Brochures

For Herbies Magic dust here is the link

Herbie's Magic Dust - Helping Fisherman Everywhere!

I know it sounds crazy, but some of the small rockfish (prey species) here are an intense bright orange color. And so, a hot orange color always seems to get bit well, especially by the larger fish. That blaze orange sounds good-- I need something that's intense orange, and not a lighter 'Tang' orange, if that makes sense. The candy colors (Caswell, anyway) give me a thinner coat, and lack the opacity I'd like to have.

I will check out the Drylac custom Imron and candy purples. My purple jigs are all-purple, or may have a thin white belly, but that's not critical. Automotive candy purple is the only purple I've found that will give me what I'm looking for. You are right again. The best purples I’ve seen are automotive lacquers. They are very intense. However I don’t want to get into another process with lacquers. You then have to worry about overspray, paint guns, and exhaust fumes. So, do I understand you right; don't bake the purple after it's applied over a white base? Ideally, what I'd like to have is a white base (if required), a purple coat(s), and a clear-- all baked for maximum durability. It all depends on what kind of purple you get. I think if you put purple over a complete white base, the purple will change to more of a pink (Just a guess here) after you bake it. I would do the entire raw jig purple. If you want a white belly, paint only 1/3 of the lower half white, and do the mid section and top section all purple over raw lead. Always do the belly first in white if that’s what you want, and then work from the top down the sides with the purple. This will look more natural, not the other way around. This will be an experiment for you in colors, on how they work and react with each other. Try it you will be amazed on how you learn to blend certain colors. You will have to experiment with this anyway, to see what combination you like. I don’t see a problem with a partial white, purple, clearcoat finish. However every different paint manufacturer you use will have slightly different paint chemical properties. So some are glossier, some may be epoxy based and some may have other chemical properties. It’s really a crap shoot, until you start playing around. Sorry I can’t give you a definitive clear cut yes and no.

Eric if you need more help, we can discuss here, or however you want.

Edited July 9, 2008 by cadman

[sagacious]

Hey Sagalicious,

For the silver look,how about a dremmel tool with a buffing wheel???Then epoxy????

Cadman,great info!!!!!!

YJ,

You're right, that would probably make for a very nice shine, but I pour jigs up to 6" long, and buffing them would be a heap of work! I was hoping to find a "chrome" powder paint that would save me a lot of time.

[blbaits]

YOu might want to try Columbia Coatings. I have purchased Chrome powder paint from them and it looks good!

[sagacious]

Ted,

Yes, like you, polishing jigs is just not an efficient way to get what I'm looking for. At the very least, you've saved me from going throught that same frustrating process with the Tiger chrome colors. An additional concern is that with these big baits, any flaw in the "chrome" coating stands right out-- and there's a lot of surface area for flaws to show on. Im mean really, if the manufacturers sold these colors are "silver-gray" or "steel gray", I'd have little cause for complaint. But "extreme chrome" and "super chrome" they ain't!

My knife jigs have recessed eyes, so I can epoxy in the 3-D eyes, and they'll never come loose. On the larger jigheads, I'll dot on a vinyl eye (one time where vinyl paint really shines). The CS vinyl paint etches the Caswell extreme chrome, so it stays put through hellacious abuse. Additionally, I put the eyes slightly high on the sides, so they stay well clear of contact with rocks. After a couple years of fishing them, so far so good. I do apply clearcoat to everything else, so as to get maximum durability.

Your colorimeter results are interesting. Most of the colors I do are bright colors. I don't do any dark colors like navy blue or browns, but I did find that my candy purple had to be applied over a white base to get the most intense color. A gray primer base made the purple dull and 'lifeless'. But I hear ya, I'm always cognizant of the fact that these jigs are going down to the rocks, and at some point their trip down is likely to be one-way. No point spending time on super-realism, or being too finicky about color shades. However, if the labor is equal, I'd rather spend the time on the color scheme that matches my goals. Thank you for the catalog links.

I have the same complaints about the automotive laquers: they are too expensive, too messy, and require too much labor and time for the desired result. The automotive guys can keep 'em! A nice powder purple would solve all that, so I'm anxious to find a nice metallic purple, or an intense sparkle candy purple. I've been doing the 'belly-white-first' routine, but if I found a nice purple (and a few other intense colors) I'd certainly forgo the white belly and go solid-color for some colors. But like you said, there's always a certain amount of trial-and-error to see what works best.

This thread had really been helpful. Thanks all!

[sagacious]

OK, down to brass tacks. Here's what I get from Caswell's 'extreme chrome' powder. It's easy to work with, and flows well over the surface of the lure when applied by either dipping or the 'salt-shaker' method.

Looks metallic, to be sure, but not exactly what would call chrome. No clearcoat was applied. The eyes are CS vinyl paint, and it etches and bonds to the chrome powder paint quite tenaciously. Be sure to get the eyes right the first time, because if you use solvent to remove any stray paint, it may remove your 'chrome' finish too! The jig head is 4oz, with 7/0 hook, and the whole bait is a little over 6" long.

[sagacious]

YOu might want to try Columbia Coatings. I have purchased Chrome powder paint from them and it looks good!

Blbaits, how does the Columbia Coatings chrome look compared to the photo of the Caswell 'extreme chrome' I posted above? What size baits are you painting?

[cadman]

OK, down to brass tacks. Here's what I get from Caswell's 'extreme chrome' powder. It's easy to work with, and flows well over the surface of the lure when applied by either dipping or the 'salt-shaker' method.

Looks metallic, to be sure, but not exactly what would call chrome. No clearcoat was applied. The eyes are CS vinyl paint, and it etches and bonds to the chrome powder paint quite tenaciously. Be sure to get the eyes right the first time, because if you use solvent to remove any stray paint, it may remove your 'chrome' finish too! The jig head is 4oz, with 7/0 hook, and the whole bait is a little over 6" long.

Eric,

If I don't say so myself, that is an excellent looking jig from the hair to the thread wraps to the paint job. I'm impressed. I like it the way it is. I would like to see it in chrome if you find what you're looking for.

Guys Below are the powder color #s I mentioned I would post if you're looking for bright colors

Tiger Drylac

#49/24080...Fluorescent Orange/2

#49/51340...Fluorescent Green

#49/52100...Glo n Dark/2

#59/20043...Neon Yellow

Herbies Magic Dust

#16 Bright Green

#14 Blaze Orange

[sagacious]

Thanks for the kind words, Ted. I like it too, and they do catch fish, so no real worries. The 'extreme chrome' results are certainly useable, so I'm not gonna chuck it in the garbage just yet!

I think the only way I can have a fair basis for 'color comparison' is with a side-by-side test with another chrome powder. That may satisfy my curiosity, however, your chrome powder trials have probably resolved that question for me. Part of my question is a result of the sometimes confusing or inadequate photos, and hyped claims of some manufacturers-- I suspect they know that a lot of folks are looking for a 'true chrome-substitute' powder.

Compared to a nickel or chromed surface (not a fair test), the powder chrome looks a little dark, which is what initially prompted my question of, "is there a brighter chrome powder out there?"

[fshng2]

Eric,

If I don't say so myself, that is an excellent looking jig from the hair to the thread wraps to the paint job. I'm impressed. I like it the way it is. I would like to see it in chrome if you find what you're looking for.

Guys Below are the powder color #s I mentioned I would post if you're looking for bright colors

Tiger Drylac

#49/24080...Fluorescent Orange/2

#49/51340...Fluorescent Green

#49/52100...Glo n Dark/2

#59/20043...Neon Yellow

Herbies Magic Dust

#16 Bright Green

#14 Blaze Orange

Great powder coat info.

[mark poulson]

If you're doing ones and twos, not production, have you tried putting a clear nail polish with some glitter over the paint?  I actually use Salley Hansen's "In The Spotlight" to add flash to all my spinnerbait blades.  It has short pieces of mylar in the clean, and shines like a lighthouse!