HOW MUCH hardner do I add to swimbait?

[Piscivorous Pike]

I found a reasonable swim bait for me, pitch, yaw, roll and wobble that works for my personal style after I asked this question and recieved TU input:

Which basic Soft Plastic Swim Bait Pattern is the most Popular?

( THANK YOU, ALL!)

I copied in DWP: NEW Berkley

[longhorn]

Are you assuming the tails don't swim because the bait is too soft? Looking at that particular bait's design I would think is should swim just fine when made from LC 536. In my experience with hand poured swim baits the ones that didn't swim well were too hard...I pour most of my swimmers with MF super soft which is comparable to 536. I use super soft because of more action in most designs and better hook setting...even so the baits usually last for several fish. Do the factory baits swim well with the size hook or head you are using? I'm assuming the factory baits are much harder than the ones you have poured. I thought of something else that may be an issue. Are you certain your plastic is well mixed? Most plastic settles when on the shelf and the hardener goes to the bottom...it takes thorough mixing to recombine. If you don't recombine I imagine the 536 would pour gooey soft. So after rambling around....my answer to your question is I would add no hardener to well-mixed 536. Hope this helps.

Edited October 29, 2008 by longhorn
typo

[Piscivorous Pike]

I would assume the 502 was well mixed as I shook it upside down untill all sediment was off the bottom and mixed in. I have only quart size.

Yes, it is too soft. It is limp as the perverbial wet noodle and hangs down very limply when held by the head compared to the Berkley bait.

When retrived the paddle under the resistance of the water pulls out strait and the swim bait slinks through the water without any rythmic beat of the tail, the body does not twist nor does it wiggle side to side.

The harder factory original tail beats, it rolls left to right and pitches left to right also. The tail wobbles back and forth. It picthes, that is the nose points left then right and back. It rolls that is it twists some bottom to up on one side then reverses bottom to top on the onther on an axis along the length of the body. If it had yaw, the is the motion of nose up and then down, it would have all the dynamics of flight. It does not yaw. Wobble, pitch and roll is all. Its swimming action is very much like the motion of an origianal floating rapala with a beating tail. Kinda a long description but I hope it helps see what I see. The 502 that I am pouring just will not resist the water pressure in that design on a 3/4 oz jig. I do like that bait for pike as it has a motion that works well where I fish it.

You said 536 should work ok, will adding hardener and how much to 502 give it the consistancy of 536? and can you harden re-melted soft baits?

Edited October 29, 2008 by Piscivorous Pike

[longhorn]

That's a new one for me. LC 536 is actually softer than 502. LC 502 is the medium softness. I think the directions on hardener say to add while the plastic is liquid but I think you may get by adding it to the re-melted plastic which is at pouring temp. As for how much I'm at a loss on that one. A little hardener goes a long way. Sorry for the not so exact answers. Sometimes this business is trial and error. Others may have a formula for you. I'm old school and don't use formulas for anything. Keep trying and I'm sure you'll get it. One more thing, since the berkley bait is for salt water it may be made from plastic like LC 500 which is designed for salt water baits and is the hardest of the formulas, so the question may be how much hardener to add to make 502 like 500.

[rxfish]

I use MF's super soft for the few swim baits I've made and didn't add any hardner, but did adjust the speed at which I retrieved the bait.

[Piscivorous Pike]

That's a new one for me. LC 536 is actually softer than 502. LC 502 is the medium softness. I think the directions on hardener say to add while the plastic is liquid but I think you may get by adding it to the re-melted plastic which is at pouring temp. As for how much I'm at a loss on that one. A little hardener goes a long way. Sorry for the not so exact answers. Sometimes this business is trial and error. Others may have a formula for you. I'm old school and don't use formulas for anything. Keep trying and I'm sure you'll get it. One more thing, since the berkley bait is for salt water it may be made from plastic like LC 500 which is designed for salt water baits and is the hardest of the formulas, so the question may be how much hardener to add to make 502 like 500.

Thank you! LONGHORN... I read some of your old posts. We are both old school.

Your information is exactly what I needed.

A little hardener goes a long way...

&

...so the question may be how much hardener to add to make 502 like 500

That is what I am looking for... I had no idea one way or the other.

I thought Easy POP Production Mold was brilliant, I referenced the link a couple times in my posts. Thanks again for teaching me something I can use.

[Kajan]

I think it depends on the swimbaits design. I assume this is lure your talking about I agree harder or softer could make alot of differance but still the bait has to do what you want it to.

I just poured some swimbaits I made, Poured with Salt water and Reg. Both swam fine at slow retreives with a High TIde jighead 1/4 oz.

I would not use Super soft on my swimbait as it would prob be too soft a lure.

Guess you'll have to just work it out LOL

[Piscivorous Pike]

I think it depends on the swimbaits design. I assume this is lure your talking about I agree harder or softer could make alot of differance but still the bait has to do what you want it to.

I just poured some swimbaits I made, Poured with Salt water and Reg. Both swam fine at slow retreives with a High TIde jighead 1/4 oz.

I would not use Super soft on my swimbait as it would prob be too soft a lure.

Guess you'll have to just work it out LOL

that is it! and when I made up my plastic, with my heads it did not swim well at all. The paddle folded over and just dragged through the water.

You are right, you can change a lot of things, even use a different swim bait. Same species of fish in a different location or just a change of season can change how they hit.

I have a specific use for that bait in the flo. green and flo. pink. so I hope I can hit on a firmness that will work with that paraticular design. When it moves through the water it has three axis of motion.

I use bass jigs without the skirts because the ones I have use forged hooks. Wire hooks do not hold up well on active pike. Salt waster jigs have a tendancy to be slightly heavier duty than necessary.

Also if the bite is tough, the larger pike have seen it all, I do hook them up sideways with some skirting. That method is also promoted by In-Fisherman.

So, you see, I am trying to cast to a specific purpose. Otherwise I would still be experimenting with size, speed, weight, color, etc.

That is what I found good about this site, it has all been tried at some time or another and you can find the answers.

I also belong to a forum of folks that build high powered flashlights as a hobby. The members refer to themselves as "flashaholics".

WHAT ARE WE HERE AT TU?

[Piscivorous Pike]

On hand I have a quart of 500, 502, and hardener.

I experimented.

To get the swim and hardness of the berkley swim bait seen in the thread I used 2 7/8 fl.oz. of 500 and 1/8 fl.oz. of hardener for 5 swim bait 1 piece mold. Anything less did not duplicate the action on the presentation I wished to use. The 500 alone was not hard enough to get the side to side roll that the berkley swims with.

I fish in waters usually colder than 55 degrees F. I think the jerk baits, the ones with long tail shafts, articulated bodies and the large curly tail grubs, 9", and 9" reapers will be just fine at those temperatures with 502 as things get a little stiff in the cold. I have never used any plastic that soft so it will be interesting this upcoming year what I adopt.

Thanks for the help.

[longhorn]

Glad you got it figured out. I may order some of those baits to see the action you're talking about...sounds interesting. Keep us posted on how they work.