rhahn427 Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Ok ...... I'm ready to mx the propionate pellets with the acetone. Directions say to mix 1 oz to a pint of acetone ........ quesion is how much is an oz in dry measure ... teaspoon, tablespoon etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gf1sh1 Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 buy a digital postal scale at a office supply store, 30 bucks or less. or a hand held mail scale. if thats not an option... go to the post office and ask them to weigh it in an envelope untill you get an ounce. ask to tare the envelope. explain you need to send only that much. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhahn427 Posted December 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 I was hoping to do this tonight and not to spend $30 for a simple measurement that plenty of others have already done ........ we're here to share and I'd appreciate help from others who have done this ...... Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Try a shot glass full of pellets. The measurement doesn't have to be precise, you just don't want to overdo it and make the solution too thick. It should end up being quite thin, like the viscosity of a can of polyurethane varnish. I dip baits in the prop solution and when the jar gets too low, I add some more acetone and a teaspoon or so of extra pellets. BTW, Bigfish1's comment about a digital scale is good advice apart from measuring prop pellets. I weigh my blanks, ballast weights and final crankbait weights on every batch. It's the only way you can replicate things on subsequent baits. And it shows you the things you need to adjust to make later baits better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhahn427 Posted December 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Thanks Bob ........ trying to do this tonight so getting a scale is not an option ....... I think it might be under the Christmas tree this year though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet 21xd Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 american weigh scales inc. sells a digital scale that is accurate to .001 oz. sells for 37.00 you would not believe how handy it is! I dont know how i lived without it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gf1sh1 Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 yeah, most any lure builder needs at least a cheap scale. 30 bucks will get you by for most things for lure related stuff. as long as it has gram capacity. i don't buy propianate in pellet form so there was no way i could measure it. i got some awhile ago and wasn't happy with it. so i figured i'd make my own. almost got it the way i want it now but it's looking like i might just go to a different product that is better suited to our (lure makers') needs. propionate has been used on lures since at least the 40's, maybe longer (it was discovered in 1929), and there's been a whole lot of discoveries and improvements since then. basicly it's a case of word of mouth in the lure industry, and ''billy's tackle'' doing it because ''joey's tackle did it''. imagination got replaced by expediency so to speak. i'm working on it as you read this to bring a better suited product to the ''little guys'' like most of us are. i'll be puting out a propionate for the die hard old school builders and the other for the new age builder. but this is getting long so... off to the fun stuff. ...BTW, i was trying to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philB Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Ok ...... I'm ready to mx the propionate pellets with the acetone. Directions say to mix 1 oz to a pint of acetone ........ quesion is how much is an oz in dry measure ... teaspoon, tablespoon etc? Hi Right or wrong this is how I do it. Take your pellets and put them in your container. Pour in your Acetate/tone and cover them so you have 2 or 3 inches of liquid on top (depending on how much you are doing) you can always add more as required. Let em dissolve stirring occasionally. When dissolved just thin to the right consistency, voil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 (edited) It isn't a science. Huh! Bet I can make a science of it. A pound coin weighs 9.5 grams, therefore 3 coins weighs 28.5 grams. This is very close to an ounce. Just make a very simple balance. 3 coins one side and the pellets on the other. Well, still not an exact science, but a simple solution. Ah, but I don't know where you live. I am assuming UK as that is where 'my home' is. Dave Edited December 8, 2008 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhahn427 Posted December 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Dang .......... I just asked what was the dry measure of 1 oz of propionate was ........ 1 person gave helpful information and I thank you very much for that ......... approximately a shot glass full I know I could have bought a scale but I thought I could get a simple answer to a simple question quickly here where we share information. Maybe the guy that sell this stuff should add the dry measure to his instructions ........ I'm surprised he hasn't chimed in with the info ..... Anyway ...... thanks for the info ...... if I find out the exact answer I'll post it incase others without a scale need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Still don't know where 'home' is, why such a secret. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhahn427 Posted December 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Sorry ...... missed that ....... no secret I'm from Baltimore Maryland USA and I mainly fish the Chesapeake Bay ......... attempting to make saltwater topwater poppers out of different materials. The one I'm playing with now is made out of a 6 inch cork rod foregrip. Weighted in the back and possibly filled with a foam and possibly a rattle. I want to see how propionate seals cork and experimenting with different materials for the rattles. I understand from reading the threads that Balsa is a pain for propionate but I didn't see any mention of cork Rick Still don't know where 'home' is, why such a secret.Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 I doesn't have to be rocket science:lolhuh: Dissolve some pellets in the acetone. If it's too thick, add solvent. It's like mixing pancake batter - I don't use a computer or a digital scale for that when I'm half awake in the morning. Dave probably does...but we know "he's special"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gf1sh1 Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 i could tell you whats going to happen with the cork but that might be too much help?? and balsa is a pain? not if it's done right. oops. too much help. sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Actually, I like propionate for sealing balsa. 10 dips puts a nice smooth hard shell on it. How it would work on cork is a ??? Have all those Chopper Bluefish left the Chesapeake? Durability of ANYTHING is a question when they are around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhahn427 Posted December 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 (edited) Actually, I like propionate for sealing balsa. 10 dips puts a nice smooth hard shell on it. How it would work on cork is a ??? Have all those Chopper Bluefish left the Chesapeake? Durability of ANYTHING is a question when they are around! I'd think if it sealed balsa it will seal cork ..... probably hold to the pits pretty good to .... glad to hear you like it on Balsa Yeah ...... they're gone ......... this time of year they're schoolie stripers in the 20's around the mouth of the bay with a few cows around .......... most of the larger fish are around Point Lookout and Solomons Island (20 - 30 lbs) ......... waiting for the monsters to come in by the Bay Bridge Tunnel ........ The blues were mostly 2-4 lbs ......... haven't seen the bruisers in years but plenty of nice stripers 18 - around 36" in the Summer/fall and monsters on the Susquehanna Flats in the spring ........ my biggest this year was a 37 lb and 24 lb in one day ....... THese poppers will hopefully hold up and if not I'll just build another ....... or make some with a harder wood when they are around .......... Edited December 8, 2008 by rhahn427 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmetto Balsa Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Here is the #'s I have for you 4 fluid oz. = 2.225 oz. = 63g 1 cup = 5.430 oz. = 153.9g 300ml = 7.51 oz. = 212.8g 5 US Quarters = 1.000 oz. Sorry but I didn't do my daily TU reading or I would have had the answer sooner. Anyone that has purchased Propionate from me will tell you my response time is pretty fast on shipping or questions. Philb is right on, about mixing a thick solution to pull from when you need to refill the jar on short notice. Just spoon out a glob of thick and stir it in with the solvent and get the thickness you are looking for. http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/classified-ads/14010-propionate-wood-sealer.html This is the link to the classified ad. If someone has new direct questions for me they can be asked in that listing and I will get an email notification that there is a question. I will answer it as soon as I open my email. I prefer to have questions answered in the hardbait forum because I learn new techniques too. I hope you get your digital scales for Christmas. Good luck with the cork and propionate is the best sealer I have found for balsa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhahn427 Posted December 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 OK ........ so 1 oz (dry weight) of propionate pellets is equal to a little less than 2 fluid oz. .......... therefore a heaping shot glass would be just about 1 oz of pellets (because a shot glass is usually 1.5 oz liquid measure) just as BobP said. THis is needed, per the instructions, for the first jar. And 2 heaping shotglasses of pellets would be the 2 oz of pellets needed for the second (thicker) solution ....... I think this is right ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CL Rods Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 How long does it 'typically' take to cure as a sealer on Balsa/Basswood at 70F? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmetto Balsa Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 rhahn427, Just skip the second jar of thick and go straight for a jar of super thick propionate (as philb mentioned). Use 3 full shot glasses of pellets to 10-12 oz. of solvent. 76gator, sealing dry wood to painting is usually 24 hrs. If you are using a thin mixture and wait 15-30 min. between dips then it will be sealed and strengthened enough to handle and paint with in 24 hrs. You can handle it with no problems after 20-30 min but there is still traces of solvent evaporating from the propionate. After 24 hrs. 99.9% of the solvents have evaporated from the sealer. The propionate still continues to cure for about 2 weeks to a month but I have never heard of a problem with someone painting and sealing a bait too soon after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 rhahn427, I think all you need is some courage to make the solution. I had never measured the required proportion between the 2 components. Even the first time in my life that I made the solution, I put 3 teaspoons of propionate pellets in a jar of about 250 ml ( 8.45 fl.oz.), then filled it about 60% with solvent, and after complete dissolving (2-3 days) I tried the solution with a scrap piece of wood, to see how fast the drops fall off the wood. As the first layer of solution penetrates the wood, maybe the best feeling of how fast the drops fall off the lure can be attained after 2-3 layers. If needed, I added some more solvent. You have to bear in mind that after using the solution for several lures, the solvent will partially evaporate, and this will make the solution thicker. Practically each time you unscrew the lid of the jar, the solution will become thicker. You may be very scientific when you prepare the solution, and ways can be found to come up with the right quantities without the help of a digital scale ( I admire Vodkaman because he can always find a practical solution to a problem). But then, as you use the propionate solution which will become thicker, you will need to add solvent to it. How much will you add? I think that not even Vodkaman will be able to help you with this. In other words, you may start preparing your solution in a very scientifical way, but then you will need to be an artist to correct its viscosity. I would suggest you the following: 1) First step is to find the right jar for you, and this depends on the maximum length of the lures you intend to make. The jar has to be about 15-25% taller than the length of the lures. 2) Divide the capacity of the jar in 2 (as per volume, so in fl.oz.). Put 3 teaspoons of propionate pellets for each 4 fl. oz. of that half capacity of the jar. For instance, if the jar has a capacity of 16 fl.oz., you will need 6 teaspoons of pellets and 8 fl.oz. of solvent. 3) Let the mixture dissolve for some days, shaking the jar occasionally. I do not stir the solution with a stick or teaspoon, because I do not want to unscrew the lid of the jar. Depending on the solvent you use, the complete dissolving happens between 2 and 7 days (it also depends on how often you stir in, or shake the jar). Acetone is great to dissolve propionate pellets, but I don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philB Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 The propionate still continues to cure for about 2 weeks to a month but I have never heard of a problem with someone painting and sealing a bait too soon after. Really good point here. There is a common misunderstanding of curing times of prop. Sure it dries off pretty quick but remains pliable for a good length of time but can be overpainted at this stage, I overpaint mine in around 48 hrs. I believe some luremakers will use prop as a topcoat and that is when the length of set time would become relevant, once hard though it is quite a durable finish but will scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philB Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 I think that not even Vodkaman will be able to help you with this. I would not be too sure about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 Sure it dries off pretty quick but remains pliable for a good length of time but can be overpainted at this stage, I overpaint mine in around 48 hrs. I believe some luremakers will use prop as a topcoat and that is when the length of set time would become relevant Well, I think just the other way round. If as a sealer, the propionate coat can be overpainted in 48 hours, without any subsequent damage to the paint, even if the propionate will still continue to cure for about a month, then the more sure you can be about the propionate as a clearcoat, because there is nothing on top of it, so it can damage nothing. You just go fishing your lures after 48 hours from your last layer of propionate as clearcoat, and the clearcoat will continue to cure in your tackle box, as long as it likes to. I must admit that you have a good point about Vodkaman. Well, you know him better ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 If you are really looking for consistency, then a painters viscosity cup would help control the mix. But as stated above, is it really necessary. I am considering using prop as a top coat as well as a seal coat. Can anyone post a pic of both side by side, so we can see and compare? I mean a D2T or etex top coat next to a prop top coat. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
