white base ...

[HookUp]

I'm seeing people talk about a white base when powder coating jigs so instead of a hijack, I'll start a new thread.

So, when you do a white base, is it with powder paint? Heat jig and dip?

Then do you heat the painted white head and add another powder paint color? If so, does the heat damage the white base?

[TAE73]

I did some last night, just heat the jig dip in the white. Then heated a little more then into yellow, then I heat again instead of curing in the oven.

[cadman]

I'm seeing people talk about a white base when powder coating jigs so instead of a hijack, I'll start a new thread.

So, when you do a white base, is it with powder paint? Heat jig and dip?

Then do you heat the painted white head and add another powder paint color? If so, does the heat damage the white base?

A white base is only used #1 if you are going to use fluorescent colors, #2 if you are going to use your white base as let's say the belly, and then put other colors over the white, to achive a multi-color jig. Only when you are done with all your colors, do you then bake the jig. Please note, when baking some colors, they have a tendency to blend into each other to get a different color. Purple and yellow are notorious for that. Hook-up do you have my Multi-Color Powder Painting Tutorial? This explains on how to achieve color mixing. PM me your e-mail, and I will get it out to you.

[HookUp]

Cadman - yes I have it and if I would have reread it, I'd have my answer

Thanx for posting.

[b1gf1sh1]

i'm confused and have to disagree. i've never put white base coats on before fluorescents. they come out bright as can be. glow under a black light. the paint is solid and thick how would the base show through? base coats are needed when spraying solvent paints and then if it goes on too thick the color is darker because the base is covered to much. i'd ask cs coatings if i was anyone needing this info. also the powder paint needs to be baked after the first color and then after the other colors are applied.

Edited December 26, 2008 by b1gf1sh1

[cadman]

i'm confused and have to disagree. i've never put white base coats on before fluorescents. they come out bright as can be. glow under a black light. the paint is solid and thick how would the base show through? base coats are needed when spraying solvent paints and then if it goes on too thick the color is darker because the base is covered to much. i'd ask cs coatings if i was anyone needing this info. also the powder paint needs to be baked after the first color and then after the other colors are applied.

I don't want to start an arguement here, but I've been powder painting jigs for 7 years, and commercially powder painting at work for 20. You don't have to agree with me. If you take a raw jig and put 1 yellow chartreuse coat over it, and then take a white painted jig and put 1 yellow charteuse coat over it, the white jig with the yellow chartreuse over it will be brighter, hands down. If you have not done this you should try it and then tell me your results..... As far as the first coat needing to be baked to apply all other coats, that is an incorrect statement. You can bake it if you like, but it's a waste of time and not necessary. I paint (6) color multi-color jigs, once all the colors are on I bake them. I have a paint hardness tester at work, and I have tested my colored paintd jigs on the hardness tester. The results were just as hard as with one coat of powder paint. If you want to try a test at home to see how hard your paint is, take a sharp 2H pencil and write on your jig, if you must, try to scratch the cured jig with the sharp pencil with out breaking the point. If you get no impression, then your powder paint has been cured correctly, and it meets most paint manuacturing standards on TDS sheets. I also use about 20 different manufacturers of powder paint, and had them all tested. The results were similar with very little fluctuation. The fluctuation that there was between the different manufacturers was so small, that you would have more issues with wrong lead composition than powder paint failure. Just so you know I'm talking strictly powder paint here nothing else.

Edited December 26, 2008 by cadman

[yankee jigger]

i'm confused and have to disagree. i've never put white base coats on before fluorescents. they come out bright as can be. glow under a black light. the paint is solid and thick how would the base show through? base coats are needed when spraying solvent paints and then if it goes on too thick the color is darker because the base is covered to much. i'd ask cs coatings if i was anyone needing this info. also the powder paint needs to be baked after the first color and then after the other colors are applied.

When i airbrush jigs with fluorescent paints,i always use a base coat of white,either textured powder or Createx White.I like my fluorescents FLUORESCENT.

Glows,base coat of white but do not bake,either Devcon or CSI Clear coat.

Ive tried doing multi colors with no base coat and it just dont work for me.

[b1gf1sh1]

my intent is not to argue either. debate maybe:nono:. i've done the white base in the past when i started out and just did it again to confirm and i really can't tell the difference with my eyes. i dipped an egg sinker half in the bed with white and cooled it. reheated and dipped it fully in fl. yellow. drew a line in the middle with a black paint marker and i see no difference. as far as spraying goes i never put a base on for that so i can't say. next time i need to spray i'll try it. but spraying sounds more logical to me because theres more control of the thickness. but it's still a fully solid plastic with heavy pigment, i just don't see how, but we'll see.... and baking before other colors ''helps'' keep the colors from melding, at least for me. when i did try i always got too much flow. but to each their own. maybe i'm just going to fast:yay:

[cadman]

my intent is not to argue either. debate maybe:nono:. i've done the white base in the past when i started out and just did it again to confirm and i really can't tell the difference with my eyes. i dipped an egg sinker half in the bed with white and cooled it. reheated and dipped it fully in fl. yellow. drew a line in the middle with a black paint marker and i see no difference. as far as spraying goes i never put a base on for that so i can't say. next time i need to spray i'll try it. but spraying sounds more logical to me because theres more control of the thickness. but it's still a fully solid plastic with heavy pigment, i just don't see how, but we'll see.... and baking before other colors ''helps'' keep the colors from melding, at least for me. when i did try i always got too much flow. but to each their own. maybe i'm just going to fast:yay:

You are correct to each his own. On the subject of melting or blending colors, I am a strong proponent of this. The reason being is this. In order to get good fusion of paints, and cross linking of polymers this should be done. I spoke to several powder paint chemists, and they explained how this works to me. I also have had many custom made powder paints for myself. Baking each color as you go does not cross link the paint chemical, but to each his own. Also when you melt each paint into each other, you get a more even transition from one color to the next. But here again this is my opinion. I would like to see some of your work, if you are willing to share. PM me if you would like. Attached are two pics of my finished spinnerbaits minus skirts and hardware. These were rejected from a lot going to a customer.

Edited December 27, 2008 by cadman

[reeves]

For years I never put a white base coat before using flourescents. Always got good coverage on all surfaces except the edges. This is where your lose it. This year I began using a white base coat and that problem has disappeared.

I use two fluid beds, one with white and the other with the flourescent yellow. Heat the head dip and tap in the white and immediately dip and tap in the yellow. Bake to cure and it's done - one time. This is all that is required to achieve maximum results, even CSI will tell you that.

Tiger Drylac has some flourescents that are single coverage and do not require any base color. I bought some and found it was of a very heavy texture powder, would not fluidize worth a hoot nor cover evenly. I think it was developed for use in electrostatic systems and not fluid beds.

Only my opinion but, I can see the difference in color with a white base coat vs: without. The white seems to bleed through a bit, but not so it is unacceptable.

Good thread, keep it going!

[b1gf1sh1]

to make a long story short, and avoid getting too technical... durring baking, molecule linking is allowed to occur. when heated and dipped the object cools at a rate(too fast)for linking to occur effectively. when baked a second time these links are opened again, but not to original expansion. the second/tenth color if put on after first bake fuses to the tips of the ''fingers'' of the pre-existing color. not a true cross link but for our application very effective. it still won't chip off the base color and that's the important part. IMO.

very nice work CAD! that's better/more than i do. my system has completely changed over the last couple years. i mentioned my melding handicap. well i decided to just cheat. i tie my spinnerbaits with hair or synthetics and coat the head and thread with epoxy. so i do my base coat in powder, bake, cool, scuff, put accents in solvent paint. then add eyes, tie on material and coat. it's nice because when i coat my wood lures theres left overs of epoxy that get wasted. this way theres no waste. that was part of the reason i even started offering spinnerbaits and jigs. this is probably making the purist's cringe but it works for me and they look nice. when i get a extra minute or two i'll figure out this whole pic thing here and post up.

Edited December 27, 2008 by b1gf1sh1

[cadman]

to make a long story short, during baking, molecule linking is allowed to occur. when heated and dipped the object cools at a rate(too fast)for linking to occur effectively. when baked a second time these links are opened again, but not to original expansion. the second/tenth color if put on after first bake fuses to the tips of the ''fingers'' of the pre-existing color. not a true cross link but for our application very effective. it still won't chip off the base color and that's the important part. IMO.

very nice work CAD! that's better/more than i do. my system has completely changed over the last couple years. i mentioned my melding handicap. well i decided to just cheat. i tie my spinnerbaits with hair or synthetics and coat the head and thread with epoxy. so i do my base coat in powder, bake, cool, scuff, put accents in solvent paint. then add eyes, tie on material and coat. it's nice because when i coat my wood lures theres left overs of epoxy that get wasted. this way theres no waste. that was part of the reason i even started offering spinnerbaits and jigs. this is probably making the purist's cringe but it works for me and they look nice. when i get a extra minute or two i'll figure out this whole pic thing here and post up.

We all have different ways of achieving what we want, and as long as it works for us that's all that matters. I do some cheating of colors that when baked come out horrible, I found the solution for it. Not the solution I wanted, but it is what it is. I am still interested in seeing some of your work. Would you like me to PM you my e-mail. If so, let me know. Also if you have any questions, or want to toss ideas around, I would be willing to do that off line. I'm always looking for new ideas and concepts. Maybe we can help each other....BTW Thanks for the compliment.

[LooksLikeSinbad]

That looks sweet!

[Spike-A-Pike]

Hookup ~ Thanks for the thread.

Cadman ~ And those where rejects....WHAT??? The one that get past QA must look fantastic!!!

Edited December 27, 2008 by Spike-A-Pike

[akriverrat]

i generally dont use white base but sounds like i should give it a try for flourecents. i used once under translucent brass and it came out a crap brown. one color as a base i do bake for a bit before adding other colors is extreme chrome, this color swallows anything i have ever put over the top of it unless i half cured it first. still get a good blend as in the lure is smooth with no seperation lines. all other colors are added before the curing process with good results.

[GCD]

I use both black and white for base coats and have found that the base and top coat will behave better if the base is cured before the top coat is applied... especially during the final curing process!

I watched a tutorial ( not on this site) yesterday of someone powder coating a jig with fluorescent chartreuse paint, although the jig looked ok, I could see the lead bleeding/shining thru in places... and I know from experience that the color would've been a lot brighter had there been a white base applied first.

... but to each their own.

Edited January 9, 2009 by GCD

[cadman]

Thanks for the compliments guys.

Hookup ~ Thanks for the thread.

Cadman ~ And those where rejects....WHAT??? The one that get past QA must look fantastic!!!

Bruce, I get pretty anal with my jigs although they are not perfect, they have to pass my eyes, and I'm my worst critic. If you look at the perch pattern spinnerbait. The second blade from the top, you can see some paint that was not clear coated by the eyelet, and I accidentally chipped it off. I try not to be this anal, but I just can't send something like this to anyone, even as samples. It is better business (in my mind) to send something good, then to send something half-a***d. People will always remember either the good or the crap.

i generally dont use white base but sounds like i should give it a try for flourecents. i used once under translucent brass and it came out a crap brown. one color as a base i do bake for a bit before adding other colors is extreme chrome, this color swallows anything i have ever put over the top of it unless i half cured it first. still get a good blend as in the lure is smooth with no seperation lines. all other colors are added before the curing process with good results.

Akriverrat, I have a couple of questions about one of your jigs. Can you pleas PM me with your e-mail? I would like to ask you some questions off-line.

Edited January 10, 2009 by cadman

[akriverrat]

Akriverrat, I have a couple of questions about one of your jigs. Can you pleas PM me with your e-mail? I would like to ask you some questions off-line.

PM sent