Attitude Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Hey guys, I used to be a regular on the "other" site before tackleunderground came into existance. I've been gone for a while, but have a new-found interest in soft plastic lure making.....so I guess what I'm saying is I need a proper welcome back! But enough about that. I'd like to hear from some of the guys that have created a business out of lure making. Like what kind of time/money you put into production, best methods, pros and cons to everything like websites, payment and ordering systems, shipping.....basically anything you would like to recommend...or warn us beginners of. Thanks in advance...and it's good to be back! Tude [/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsworms Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Welcome back Attitude I could write a novel about the pros/cons and lessons learned, but I don't wanna bore anyone so I'll make it short (sorta). Luckily, I was one of the first to sell hand-pours on ebay about 6 years ago. I established a pretty good customer base by doing that. It's scary to think of the money I put into the business to get it going. I'll bet I worked for over a year before I actually made any money. In my opinion, I think a guy needs to get his name out there; then shoot for building a respectable website and working on getting into stores. When I first started doing this, I emailed every tackle shop and fishing site I could think of. I spent many hours working on advertising; something I've always hated doing, but it must be done. I think most guys will agree with me when I say that you can't expect success to happen overnight. It takes time and patience. Most of all, it takes a strong belief in your product. Well that wasn't too long of a novel after all. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyg Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Attitude, I started in the lure business last March and like Al's worms said it takes awhile to turn a profit. You spend a lot of time on trial and error to get the right colors and plastic composition etc. Now that I almost my first year under my belt, I am revising my web site to accept payments, investigating into selling at trade shows, and getting into tackle shops. My belief that word-of-mouth is your greatest advertising asset. I have focused on getting the "right baits in the right hands." Once people know you are in the lure business, everybody would like a free handout. I have been very picky about who gets to field test my baits. For example, I will give some jig trailers to someone that I know his favorite lure is a jig. They provide me with good feedback and in return I produce a better product and hopefully win an influencial customer. On the business side I would recommend keeping ALL receipts and using software like Quicken or QuickBooks to keep everything straight. This will help also see what your actual costs are and which baits have a better profit margin. Hope this helps...and good luck! Mickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Attitude WB how you been? As far as websites go, you cant beat some of he store software avail for free, it also does shipping rates. Fully customizable. Hitting the local bass federation clubs and donating stuff helps also Good luck Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshManiaC Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Affiliate yourself with a major fishing website and use the regulars who post on it (both pro and weekender) as advertising vehicles. The cost of the affiliation is very prohibitive when you're just starting out (as I am) so LOL I am going all the way and creating my own BIG fishing website. I think in the long run it'll be worth the time and expense. I'd think too, if the luremaker's association ever gets rolling, having a combined web site with links to everyone's own sites would be a plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Thanks everyone! Those are all really helpful....in my opinion, there is no post too long if it involves lure making! (Al) I certainly don't have any preconcieved notions that a business will be an overnight success. I've heard the time, money and hard work speech plenty....and definately agree! Add in a little luck, and you're in biz! Keep the posts comin!...anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsworms Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Here's a little "2 cents worth" on the website end of it........... Make your site easy to navigate and try to stay away from fancy flash buttons or java script which will slow things down. If other people are like me, shopping quickly becomes "leaving" if you have to wait too long for pages to load. Let's face it.......most fisherman don't care if there's a cool streaming video intro. at the home page of your site. They wanna get to the goodies, and the quicker the better. I also strongly recommend adding a paypal shopping cart to your site. Most shoppers on the net have paypal accounts now and it's really the only way to go. Paypal acts as the "middle man", which means you never have to see the customer's credit card number. This also gives the customer the option for instant transfer or e-check purchases. And that's "part 2" for the day. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlizard Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 First of all Welcome back Tude! We have just completed our first fiscal year, and we are definatley not going to show a profit this year!! But thats buz.. However this first quarters sales is going to be better than all of last year! (Good Lord please let it continue) So I guess my point is it takes alot of patience and cash to get it going until you can start to pull out of the hole... As many of you already know we started out with the Huffer that was it. Its still the best seller and probably the most eye catching, but I think we are up to 9 different product lines now and many many colors (not nearly as many as AL, but we try to keep a stock of all colors). We kind of started different than most people would. We went into the first yer knowing we are going to take a loss anyway so lets make the best of it. We formed the LLC and got all the accounting and legal stuff squared away, focused hard on the pro-staff end and thier contributions to advertising for us... Sent out TONS of free samples and called and emailed anybody with a retail shop... You will get 100 no's for every yes, but thats true in every business. Just keep knocking... I am terribly lucky when it comes to the website...I just happened to meet Charlie (chief of pro-staff) and he knows how to do them himself. I cant tell you how much making him the chief of pro-staff has helped our organization... He keeps up with alot of the BS so my partner and I can focus on pouring and design....But not everyone is going to find a Charlie.. Production wise if you have a partner I suggest splitting the product lines up... Use a microwave and purchase good molds..... Molds are what makes you or breaks you in my opinion... I could keep going, but I was just shocked that my name was mentioned in the title..... Just shout if you want to know anything in more detail... John Huffman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Not a problem Kid....you have a good site there, so I don't mind giving a shameless plug! Speaking of plugs, Red mocked up a homepage for me a while ago that looked awesome! I would not hesitate to use his services...depending on how busy he is! FYI I was on Yahoo not to long ago and saw a "business startup" thingy (it's still on the site if you want to check it out) and was wondering if anyone might see problems/advantages to using them. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/index.php I would also be grateful if someone could go over the formalities of become a legit biz...ie paperwork, merchant accounts etc.....cuz I'm freakin clueless about that stuff. Thanks a ton fellas........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlizard Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Currently we are set up to run all orders through paypal... Thats not always easy to get the anti-computer old guy running a tackleshop to get online and setup a paypal account...If you know what I mean.. So I would also like to know who uses what for thier merchant accounts.. Charges and all that good stuff.... Thanks John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirmy Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Gentleman, I am not on the business side but definately on the buyers/users side. Here are a couple of tips that I think would help. First, Chris (Al) is absolutely correct. If the site is slow, "goodbye". There are 1000's of sites selling the same thing. You are unique and that may be what we are looking for but if we get hung up you will lose us. Whenever I hear of a bait or bait maker that "another fisherman" does good on, you can bet I am going to inquire. Be carefull though, if I find out it was a scheme to get people to buy, you lost me and as many others as I can spread the word to. The worst thing is, this is a common practice amongst the fisherman who get kickback's. It is even worse when the "maker" brags about there Prostaff winning on there bait when there bait was never used. Social suicide. Last and I think the most important, Make your website like I am walking into a tackle shop. Hang your baits on a wall and put a picture of this on a website. When I walk into a shop, I look for what is missing or has the least on the peg, so instead of a counter showing quantity, show how many have been sold. You can also utilize this as to what colors work in what geograpical areas. I know Pro's who prefish, stumble on to something big and go clean out as much of the local supply as possible. Oh yeah, when I see what colors are gone or low, I go home and make it Good luck and support other members of this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlizard Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Good words of advise Chirmy!! You hit on a hard subject and that pro-staff.. Its probably the hardest part of the bus for us so far.. Its hard to keep up with who is helping you and who might be hurting you... We made sure up front that we absolutely under no circumstances wanted any of them to lie about using our products to win if they didnt... We suggested that they just mention our name as a sponsor and that would be enough... The thing about it is that you cant keep up with what guys are doing in different states other than what they tell you.... Its also hard to find people that understand what it takes to get a new company off the ground...You cant have your hand out all the time, because our pockets are shallow enough.. Alot of guys simply want free baits to wear a hat for you....Its hard to handle it all and try to remain as professional as possible, but we are doing the best we can.... Any body else have pro-staff suggestions?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 That's helpful...thanks Tim. Along what Chris had said....I would like to know how to complete orders using the system similar to how Bass Pro, Cabelas etc does it. I think it's Verisign....but they just use any credit card, Visa, Mastercard..whatever. It seems like the most logical, easy for the user, and most diverse way to pay for something via internet. I don't have a paypal account...and probably never will. (No offense to anyone) If I were to buy a bait and saw that it required Paypal as its form of transaction...I wouldn't buy just for the fact that I would want to take the time to sign up with Paypal. I can imagine that it's the same for many people....or am I off with this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlizard Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Tude, You are probably right which is why we want to get that merchant account going asap.... I think paypal is great and secure, but thats just me and I understand that many people see it as a hassle. The last thing anybody running a business wants to do is make it hard for someone to give you money..... however it hasnt hurt us too much that we know of. We dont really rely on individual sales through our website.. We want to make sales to dealers and only offer our products on the website to the general public because we dont have that many dealers yet..lol In fact we have high prices on the site so we dont compete with our dealers, but still someone who really wanted them could get them... Regardless everyone should make it as easy as possible to collect the funds from thier customer any way they want to do it... My 2 cents again.. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsworms Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Price is what kept me from getting a merchant account. 2 to 3 grand just to be able to accept credit cards......that can hurt if you're just starting out. I have thought about it more recently, but I'm still very happy with Paypal. Tell you this.....it takes just as long to fill out a member form on this site as it does to open a paypal account. But John is right - many people still see it as a burden. Obviously, there are pros and cons to any kind of payment methods. However, the ONE thing I would try to stay away from is printable order forms. Fishermen generally don't like to mess with that because they're looking at a month turnaround time before they get their order. Bottom line is accept credit card payments, whether it be via merchant or paypal. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshManiaC Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 You might want to check out www.clickbank.com I have a pal who uses them and he saus they are great...he has both paypal and clickbank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 I knew there was a catch to the merchant account....and you are absolutely right, a couple grand to set it up seems ridiculous in the grand scheme of things when starting out. Otherwise, everyone would probably use em. I never thought of the fact that most of your baits (when starting out) are sold to tackle shops, at fishing shows etc. And the fact you could potentially be competing with your vendors via website is a good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 However' date=' the ONE thing I would try to stay away from is printable order forms. Fishermen generally don't like to mess with that because they're looking at a month turnaround time before they get their order. Bottom line is accept credit card payments, whether it be via merchant or paypal.Chris[/quote'] Hey Chris. I have found the printable order forms actualy help, Not evreyone will deal online. Its still new and not trusted by all. I do add that checks will delay for 7-10 days. It gives the customer a option. Most understand and the people wanting somthing diffrent will wait for the value added item. Granted most come from Pay Pal hands down. Pay Pal is great for the need it now people. It is easy to use and set up. And won't do without it. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRPLASTICS Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Get an accountant. don't forget FET and put a little profit aside from your busy season to cover your slow season. My first year was break even, the second year had a 32% growth and only into 2 weeks of the third year I have established 50% of what we did last year, persistance, avoid your local retailers and target other regions of the U.S. and exporting. Do not let ego get the best of you, face it, you should'nt care who or what you pour for as long as the payments have a presidents face on it. Project a 7% growth minimum each year, get reliable inventory/invoice software (Quick Books Pro), attend conventions, meetings and tournament weigh-ins. Damn, I could go on and on and on. Limit pro-staff and set your guidelines in concrete. Do not be afraid to find sales reps, they usually will take 10% of the sales of retail locations they set up, if you have friends that regular business takes them on the road alot, they are great candidates. Any other questions, call me @ 619-449-7727(shop) 619-861-4703(cell) Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docirv Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 There is a lot of good info in all these posts. One thing I think you should do is define what you want to accomplish. In other words, set goals, both long term and short term. Use them as mileposts to mark your progress and to give you a way to measure your success or lack of it. Once you have your goals, and you should wirte up a list of them all and keep it handy and read it daily, you can work backwards from the goal and create the steps needed to accomplish each goal. For eample, one definition or goal of success in this business is to have 100 good repeat customers who want custom work. Using that as a guide will result in different marketing approaches rather than having a goal of making a profit of $45,000 per year. In your goals you need to define how you will reach them and that will get you thinking and asking specific questions to accomplish them. I hope this helps. If you would like to discuss this more give me an email or just keep this thread going. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthworm77 Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Sorry, I've been away for a while. I started my business in 2000. Then I was only making jigs ans spinnerbaits. In 2001, I started pouring for myself and developed a few neat baits that some guys had o have. The rest was history. My business is a hobby to me although I do make some serious money at times. In the beginning, I didn't really drop a ton into it. It just kind of worked. I have 4 guys on my pro staff. I don't care about theri tournament performances. I jusge mine and my partners becasue I know what we truly do out on the water. The other guys just help when I need them to.-C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted January 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Thanks for all the great posts...I didn't think this thread would go over as well as it has...so thanx! I guess I should clarify that once I do take the next step in producing baits, it won't be my only job. For most of us, I'm sure it's a hobby that sorta turned into a small business....so I'm not really concerned with a "slow season". I have a masters degree and a job that I absolutely love, and I'm not ready to through all that schooling out the door for a career in soft plastics just yet. I have always been keeping a "small business" in the back of my head, then I found tacklemaking...then tackleunderground and sparked my interest. I love to fish.....I live for it just like most or all of us on this site, so why not try a small (very small to start) operation in the industry that I love...fishing. Everyone has been extremely helpful w/responses in this thread...I'd really like to keep it going cuz I'm sure there are endless problems/concerns/shortcuts with a startup biz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
