rclark12 Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 does any one seal wood with envirotex or any other epoxies and have a good effective method theyd like to share ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21xdc Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Some use elmers glue. I use e-tex with good success. Crystal sheen is what I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I used this with very good results... CPES™-Wood based epoxy products to repair and resist wood rot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 The wood hardener Snax uses is absorbed by the wood, and actually penetrates the wood fibers, and fills and reinforces them, so water can't be absorbed, as opposed to a surface coating, like Etex, which only protects as long as it's film isn't broken. I use a similar product and don't worry about water intrusion any more. I shape, finish sand, and drill my lures, and then soak them in wood hardener. The hardener actually drives the air out of the wood, and I can see little bubbles of air escaping from the end grain. When no more bubbles come out, I know it's reached it's saturation point. I hang the parts overnight, and then add the hardware, ballast, hinges, and prime and go. With wood hardener as a sealer, I never worry about water penetration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21xdc Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I thin my e-tex with acetone (per manufacture reccomendation). When I coat my wood baits, It gets absorbed into the wood. Not just coated. I like the boyancy of wood and want to keep air in my baits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 21xdc, I didn't realize thinned Etex was absorbed. Thanks for the tip. How much do you thin it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) You can mix a batch of Devcon 2 Ton epoxy and thin it up to 50/50 with denatured alcohol. It will cure just as quickly as unthinned Devcon (less than 24 hrs). Works very well and the epoxy gets absorbed into the wood surface while leaving a glossy coating on the bait which you may want to sand lightly to de-gloss before painting. Alternatively, you can dip the bait in an acetone/propionate (aka prop) solution. If you clearcoat your baits with Devcon, also using it as a waterproofer keeps things simple. Edited January 1, 2009 by BobP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21xdc Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) I don't have a thinning formula. It takes very little acetone to thin. I make it like hot pancake syrup. Edited January 1, 2009 by 21xdc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downriver Tackle Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 What has everyone found to be the drawbacks with using a urethane as a sealer? It's the most widely used coating for exterior wood applications. Just wondering what the issues with baits are? I don't carve, just paint, but it has my paint formulating gears going again. I have something in mind, but it's a urethane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 The main goal in sealing the wood is maximum penetration of the sealant. Otherwise water damage is a scratch away. That's the reason I used the CPES. It has unparalleled penetration and remains flexible unlike other epoxies which are brittle once cured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21xdc Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'm not saying that how I do mine is best... It works long enough for me to loose them.. I never have a bait long enough to rot on me. Not sure this is as important as some think. I could make my baits from naked cedar or douglas fir and let nature take it's coarse and I'd still loose it before it rotted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 The issue I've had in the past was with teeth or hooks penetrating the outer epoxy and into the wood. Water then caused the surrounding wood to expand and the finish would peel. Sealing deeply helps prevent this and is suggested if you are fishing for toothy fish. It's the biggest reason that I've decided to start using Featherlite. Wood just has too many drawbacks for me to keep using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 (edited) That's the main reason I went to PVC. No water penetration problems. And it doesn't chip or splinter. But I am in the process of repainting two of my older poplar baits, and I still like working with wood better. I found one drawback to wood hardener comes up if I soak it too long. The material penetrates so far, it takes forever to offgas. When I hit it with a hair dryer, the unset material bubbles out, and I have to let that cure out again. So a minute or so is all I soak it now. But I do like how waterproof it makes the wood. And I can paint it with the same process as before. I've not tried urethane coatings as a sealer. The penetrating feature of the wood hardener is what attracted me to it. Edited January 2, 2009 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21xdc Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Does featherlite sand like wood? Where can I get some? How much does it cost? Does it float like wood? Can I get 1/2 in dowels in it? Do the screweye bite good into it? I'd love to try some. My 13 yr old boy bought me 20 ft of 1/2 dowel for Christmas.. So I'm covered in wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Feather Lite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclark12 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 i think i mite give the cpes stuff a try... with tht do i dipp it in and let the wood absorb or do i brush it on?..... and what are the steps for using pvc foam?completely new to me thanks so much for the help guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclark12 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 o yea snax with the feather lite tht needs to be poured into a mold rite and all the hard ware needs to be intalled in the mold? never did a mold before id like to try it out...and how much wieght is needed for it to be a sinking plug with featherlite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 You don't have to mold in all the hardware with Featherlite as it holds screw eyes very well. As for its buoyancy it is pretty similar to Poplar I've been told. I don't do the molding myself but the product is used by several well know musky lure manufacturers already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 im still sold on sanding sealers. its much faster dry time. and if the paints tooth ridden theres no paint peel.. we have taken chunks out of lures with channel loks. then run the lures with exposed wood. the remaing coating held no problem. the apparent issues would remain. what woods were used in application. we use mainly cedars and honduras mahoganys. . i am intrigued in foams, but then again they wont be woodies lol.. the paints we also use require ventilation. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 DT, I sometimes undercoat with DN poly and have had no issues with it. I guess the choice depends on whether you're a guy who wears just a belt or a belt AND suspenders. Some guys just want surface waterproofing and to prevent the wood grain from rising when painted. That's OK for most bass lures. Some need to reinforce and waterproof to maximum depth to harden soft balsa or armor against toothy critters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclark12 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 i watched some videos on making molds with oomoo 25 silicon and i think ill try tht and fill it with feather lite... ? bout the feather lite... do i screw in while still soft or after hard.. any advice for this stuff would be great cuz i have no idea bout any of this plastic stuff slowly learnin from the site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gf1sh1 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 the CPES is is a mixture of propionate and butyrate along with a host of common and exotic chemicals, esters and solvents. most are basicly just a smoke screen most companies use to make it look difficult to the common man as most of the ingredients do the same as another and another does the same as another so on so forth. add a drop and it's another ingredient for the MSDS. the ingredients made from wood mentioned on their site is the propionate and the butyrate which are made from wood. i make my own similar product for my own uses except i use a different (better IMO) plasticiser than them. and of course not nearly as in depth of a receipe... i use a harder (NOT hard) version for sealing and a somewhat softer one for coating for paint. but to each his own i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 All I can tell you is that I've used it and it works very well indeed. I don't have time to create my own concoctions that may or may not work as well. I do encourage everyone to experiment though and share your findings with the rest of us. We're all here to learn what works and what doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gf1sh1 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 i only did it to save money!!!!! to get the ingredients i paid over $1200.00 (most has to be bought in bulk) but in the end game i'll save around $8000.00 or so when all's said and done. it was worth the time and research to me. CPES is prop. i'm possitive it works. thanks SNAX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downriver Tackle Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) the CPES is is a mixture of propionate and butyrate along with a host of common and exotic chemicals, esters and solvents. most are basicly just a smoke screen most companies use to make it look difficult to the common man as most of the ingredients do the same as another and another does the same as another so on so forth. add a drop and it's another ingredient for the MSDS. the ingredients made from wood mentioned on their site is the propionate and the butyrate which are made from wood. i make my own similar product for my own uses except i use a different (better IMO) plasticiser than them. and of course not nearly as in depth of a receipe... i use a harder (NOT hard) version for sealing and a somewhat softer one for coating for paint. but to each his own i guess. I see where you're getting that from the MSDS, but you're mistaken. The proprionate and butyrate you see are solvents, not resin solids. Ethyl 3-ethoxy proprionate is a solvent also know as EEP solvent. And Isobutyl Isobutyrate is also a solvent, known as IBIB solvent. They don't even list the resin on the MSDS, just solvents possible in either part A or B. CPES is just a hard epoxy thinned out with lots of solvents and probably a few additives to help it penetrate the wood. You could probably make your own version with D2T thinned out with urethane grade laquer thinner. Edited January 3, 2009 by Downriver Tackle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
