finlander Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I have seen some muskie baits with the lip below and the tow eye coming out the nose of the bait. This looks like a 'swimmer' style. If you wanted to make a rock banging lure, do you have to go to the thru lip wire tie? I have a hard time running a wire thru the body and especially up and back thru holes in a lip. Then to hide it in the hole... Has anyone had a bait with a flatter lip angle, condusive to deep diving, but had thr tow eye right on the nose?? What action would this give? Would extending a 'loop' of wire out from the nose help in making it run like a thru lip? Or would this likely lead to that wire failing, weaking from lack of support? Thanks. One more, sorry. Is a stainless lip too heavy for a 12-14 inch trolling lure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Them Muskie Lures Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Finlander, I have noticed that most (probably all) deeper diving lures have the line tie out in front of the lure and down the lip. One thing that I have just started trying is taking 1/8" cotter pins, drilling a hole through the lip and then running it into the bait and then I epoxy it in. So far in initial tests, it seems very solid. I have attached a picture of some of my baits. Thanks, Greg www.themmuskielures.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) No, no that's too easy, try the wire thru!!! I was going to add that i have some s.s. lips smaller and large, 1/16th and 1/8th thick. Titanium is pricey on ebay, smaller pieces are doable, but then I have to trim it. Just was wondering if the heavy metal will take the action away. And what would be more durable, s.s. or titanium, as far as rock smashing when trolling. Are you using just screw eyes in the belly and the butt?? I once bought the largest longest screw eyes I found. But they sprung open the split rings. I really over do it when it comes to hardware. Still learning.... good looking baits, thanks for the idea. Edited January 4, 2009 by finlander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think deeper diving baits (longer lip at shallow angle) will not work with the line tie on the nose. On lips with the line tie on the lip surface, the closer you move the tie to the nose of the bait, the tighter the action becomes until the bait stops swimming and starts spinning. Having the line tie on the nose is sort of an extreme case of this. I use use ss wire with softer temper, like "safety wire". If you use slightly larger diameter wire, it is still strong but much easier to twist and bend accurately. I twist the wire into a screw eye, bend the eye 90 deg, force the tail through the lip hole and wrap the end back over the top of the lip where I have cut a small slot. Trim and crimp down the end of the twisted wire. Added advantage - it makes the bait easier to tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 depending on lip angle and depths needed. our woodies have the screw eye thru the lip into the head, but they are normally created for shallower depths 5-8 ft. on our larger version thumper we achieve 17ft trolling with the same application. to achieve beyond those depths lip angles and pull ties as you mention need change. look at a tuff shad application. that may solve your needs.. as for cotter you will be ultimately doomed unless the pin end is embedded as other lures into the first hook hangar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 BobP- as for the softer safety wire, is it available at a welding shop? I get my s.s. at the local weld place, in 3' lengths. Never looked at the diff types, if you will. I agree that a one piece thru is the stronger way to get it done. A more flexible wire is prob. the answer. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 @ finlander Lures with deep diving , pointing forward lips would spin with a line tie on the nose , simply because the leverage of the water pressure around the towpoint and on the lip is too high , and the pull of the retrieved line is not strong enough to force the lure back . Also the ballast weights and the physical sideward stability of the lure in the water can not overcome this leverage force anymore , so the lure spins . If now the linetie is placed closer to the tip of the lip , or in other words , right on the lip , the strength of leverage becomes less , the lure but would still "want" to lay on it's side to spin , but the force of the retrieved line is now sufficient to pull it back into opposite direction , where it tends to lay on it's side again , so same thing again.........the lure wobbles ! Concerning the stainless steel lip , that you mentioned , I assume , that you mean these large triangular and cupped ones available in some component stores ? These are supposed to be screwed under the chin of the lures . If this is the case , I am very sure , that a lure of 12" to 14" would carry such lip easily , but it depends on the buoancy of the wood used and also the volume of the lureblank . Maple , oak and similar maybe a bit too heavy , but pine and basswood should be OK . The lure might only hang head-down a bit at rest , but if trolling , not casting , it should not be a problem , since it would be headache to cast such a front-weighted lure , it would often leader-tangle . Many times such heavy metal lips render extra ballast weights to be not neccessary . good luck:yay: , diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I would have thought .064 aluminum would be fine, plenty strong enough. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 @ Vodkaman I would not trust aluminium wire even not as thick as that one . I have a lot of 1,0 mm aluminium welding wire , the guy at the place , where I buy my stainless welding wire , gave me for free , I am only using it as hooks for hanging lures in my drying rack . It tears a lot easier than SSt of same dia. , when twisting it or bending it up and down . greetz , diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think he was referring to an aluminum LIP and not wire. The stainless lips I have are close to the size of the largest rounded ones in the Rollie and Helen's catalog. They are 1/16" and 1/8" thinck in a med and large size. I sent the pattern to a nice Yooper from Michigan's Upper Peninsula who cut them out for me. I have to use cobalt bits to drill thru them. Yes, they are going to be nose heavy. Good for keeping the hooks up and away from snags. I want to make a few before the next Canadian trip. Lots of rocky bottom there. What has worked in the past is 1/3rd out from the nose for the line tie, 1/3rd of the visible lip. Lure goes right down. Arm hurts to hold the rod after 5 minutes. Must have good rod holders. Thanks for the advice, going to make more sawdust. Spring is right around the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 No, I am talking about the lip material. Sorry. I skipped a couple of posts and lost concentration. That darn Altzeimers again. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 You're not using saws or any other semi-dangerous utensils when your brain takes a holiday, are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Off course , me stupid , Dave meant an aluminium lip:o ! I use such homemade lips of about mentioned thickness on some of my own crankbaits , no problems so far , not even with a 66" silure , that a friend of a friend caught on one of my lures in Spain . I'd cut them out with shears or with a jigsaw and file/grind them to outer shape . Bending is done in a vise . Those aluminium lips don't look too beautiful , but you can easily bend them to alter lure action . sorry for misunderstanding:) , diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 No worries Finlander, the authorities have fitted me with a straight jacket. I am getting good at nose typing now. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Did i ask you this before?....werent you in the UK?? and what do you do for a living? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Finlander, I get soft temper ss wire from McMaster-Carr They also sell 1/8 temper ss wire but I haven't tried that. You can compare tensile strengths to get an idea of the relative softness of the 2 types. I use .032 and .040" wire for bass baits and assume a musky bait would require considerably thicker stuff, in the .050 - .064" range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
