heavycover Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) I use Createx paint and sometimes after I apply the DN clearcoat, it wrinkles the paint. Anyone ever seen this and have a solution? Do I need to seal the paint before applying the DN? Any help is appreciated. Edited January 28, 2009 by heavycover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 That question has been brought up a few times:lol: You need to flash dry your createx. Use a heat gun or space heater something that will put some heat out. I usually use an acrylic clear too before using DN. If you are applying with a brush don't over do it, get it on and let it dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Do you put the lure on a turner after applying the DN? If you do and there's excess DN on the lure, enough to pool in one spot, it will run back and forth under the forming skin and cause the paint to wrinkle. Been there, done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 How are you applying it? It's been said a lot of times that you need to heatset the Createx before putting DN on it. I spray mine and have never had issues with the paint wrinkling. I only used to use the hair dryer just enough to dry the paint a little quicker. Heatsetting is a longer process. If yo're spraying, try only misting on the first couple coats, then you can go a little heavier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavycover Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I use a truner but dont heatset. Sound like I am applying the first coat too thick too. I'll try heating and a very thin first coat.....Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) It is well known that putting solvent based anything over a water base will cause the water base to wrinkle as you say. I'm not 100% positive but I'm pretty sure that even with heatsetting it won't completely cure the problem. There's a bunch of issues to take into consideration, I'm not a paint consultant but I've worked with one enough to learn this. Edited January 29, 2009 by saltybugger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTfishingrods Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Createx is waterbased not latex based. I have not used Dick Nites yet but have read about every thread on it because I intend to shortly. I would say clamboni and the Bobs have the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Heat setting must have been advised a hundred times on this site, no one has come back and said, "it didn't work". When heat setting, you cannot just wave a hair dryer at it for 5 seconds, it has to be done properly. I suggest googling createx and read up on heat setting. It is how the colors are set on TEE shirts, to make them durable and washable. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borderbasser Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I have had this problem with brushing it on. The best results I have had thus far is spraying it. Get you one of those cheapo siphon feeds for like ten bucks and thin with about 25%-50% acetone and spray away. It will take several coats to get the desired finish (depending on how much acetone is used), but you will like the finished product and won't have any problems with wrinkleing. What you will have problems with though if you spray too thick or don't alow a little time between coats is bubbles popping up. I think that it is due to the solvents still flashing off under the last coats. TJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 How long are you waiting between coats TJ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 How long are you waiting between coats TJ? I'm doing bass-sized baits, and I usually spray 5 or 6 baits at a time. I spray light coats, and by the time I get one coat done on the 6th bait, I go right back to the first one. After a few coats, the next coat starts to fuse with the first one and it'll become smooth enen though you're spraying really light coats. At that point is when I start spraying slightly heavier coats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borderbasser Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Riverman, I pretty much do it like CJ said. If you use more acetone, you can recoat faster, but it will take more coats. I recently coated a bait with only about 25% acetone (more or less) and only coated it with two fairly heavy coats and one light coat to finish off what I had in the jar and it coated the bait well. I waited about 15-20 min. between coats and I rotated by hand for a few minutes just to make sure that there would be no runs. Just a little note about bubbles. For many of you with slick baits like a typical crankbait, bubbles probably won't be that big of an issue if trying to coat the bait with a thicker coat. Where it does seem problematic are baits like my swimbaits that have a lot of carving detail in the head and body. These places tend to catch and pool a little more finish. Of all the baits that I have made where bubbles were an issue, it was in these areas and not the smooth areas. TJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I've also had bubbling issues if I'm using larger glitter in the topcoat. You have to be sure the glitter is sitting flat on the previous coat or when you spray the next one, the flake will lay down and trap air. I haven't found a glitter that dissolves in DN yet, BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KcDano Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 CJ, are spraying DN with an airbrush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I had a "Duh!" moment using DN today. When I started using DN, I dipped baits, let the excess drip off onto a newspaper, then put them on a lure turner until they hardened. I'd been using Devcon for years so the turner was a no-brainer. If you don't spin epoxy coated lures, the epoxy collects at the tail in a blob. But the only time I had problems with DN wrinkling paint was if I put the baits on the turner before they had a chance to drip off all excess DN. Well, here's the "Duh!" DN is very thin so any excess drips off the lure before it begins to harden if you just hang it up to dry. No lure turner needed - just dip'em and hang'em up. Works fine and avoids the pitfall of excess DN causing paint wrinkling. Tried it today and it looks just fine. My Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavycover Posted January 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Many thanks for the discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 CJ, are spraying DN with an airbrush? Yeah. I use a peak x-3. It's a knockoff of an HP-BCS. Bear air did a good job of taking the pictures to make it look like it's just a black BCS, but it's way different. Nowhere near as good of a gun but it's fine with a couple modifications. The DN builds up on the needle cover sometimes........had to grind and polish the inside of the tip. I also polished the needle. Seems to be helping so far. Paint sprays better but the DN is a little thicker. UI started thinning 3 parts DN to one part acetone with good results. I tried using about a 2:1 mixture and seem to get a nice smooth finish a little easier, but it does take a few extra coats. Total time for topcoating 5 lures is about 10 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KcDano Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 A detail gun would make applying the finish easier (less applications). You might benefit from using a hotter thinner inconjuction with the acetone. This will allow the paint to flow out better. But you will have more waste with a bigger gun due to clean-up and unused finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I thought about a touch up gun. Had a couple concerns though. One is that I don't really spray more than a few baits at a time very often, so there's really no need. In one session, I only use an ounce or two of mixed topcoat. I also am only about 80% sure my booth would be able to handle the overspray, you're moving a lot more air through the gun than with an airbrush. Three.........I just thinned it out a little more and modified the airbrush a little bit and it's working fine for me right now. Only took a few minutes to do the mods I did. The airbrush works well for me right now. The only problem was the buildup on the tip. After the quick modification and thinning a little more that's resolved. If I was spraying more baits than I am the touch up gun would have some appeal, but I don't really need it. The brush I'm using is a 0.5mm nozzle and I'm painting bass baits so it's able to move plenty of topcoat through the nozzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lure--Prof Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Heat setting must have been advised a hundred times on this site, no one has come back and said, "it didn't work".When heat setting, you cannot just wave a hair dryer at it for 5 seconds, it has to be done properly. I suggest googling createx and read up on heat setting. It is how the colors are set on TEE shirts, to make them durable and washable. Dave Thank You Dave! That would be me who has advised, well, not really advised, but begged, cajoled, pleaded, demanded, insisted, and dictated the following TRUTH: Createx must be thoroughly heat-set before applying Dicknite's topcoat!!! If you will do this you will encounter no problems applying Dicknite's topcoat on top of Createx. Createx undergoes a molecular change after thorough heat-setting that will not take place without said heat. This same acrylic water-base paint is also very popular for textiles, as in tee-shirt painting. Heat-setting allows the paint to last at least as long as the fabric. Without heat-setting, it will wash out of the fabric the first time it is washed, leaving virtually no trace of the paint having been there. For practical purposes, the same scenario occurs when one applies Dicknite's topcoat on top of Createx which has not been heat-set: the reaction is probably now not unlike you may expect to take place when one uses a solvent catalyzed product on top of a water-base paint. It makes a big mess. One can avoid this mess and achieve perfect results by thoroughly heat-setting the Createx before applying the Dicknite's topcoat, just as I have done many many times, as many forum members can attest! For more information, search the Hard Baits forum using the terms Dicknite's and Createx, where you willl find me reiterating this same advice many times. In closing, let me say that Dave, you are 100% correct in your above statements, and I really appreciate your effort to get the message across, where you wholeheartedly suggest that is proper to Heat-set Createx thoroughly before applying Dicknite's topcoat. Just my:twocents::twocents:worth, Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downriver Tackle Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I thought about a touch up gun. Had a couple concerns though. One is that I don't really spray more than a few baits at a time very often, so there's really no need. In one session, I only use an ounce or two of mixed topcoat. I also am only about 80% sure my booth would be able to handle the overspray, you're moving a lot more air through the gun than with an airbrush. Three.........I just thinned it out a little more and modified the airbrush a little bit and it's working fine for me right now. Only took a few minutes to do the mods I did. The airbrush works well for me right now. The only problem was the buildup on the tip. After the quick modification and thinning a little more that's resolved.If I was spraying more baits than I am the touch up gun would have some appeal, but I don't really need it. The brush I'm using is a 0.5mm nozzle and I'm painting bass baits so it's able to move plenty of topcoat through the nozzle. Same experience here. A touch-up gun is way too big! I used to clear all my baits with a sprayed automotive urethane before I switched to epoxy. I used a Passche VL with #3 or 5 tip and needle, depending on bait size. Even shot flakes in the clear very nicely. One major factor is the solvent you thin with though. To get the the right performance out of a small airbrush, you need a slower drying thinner, or you'll have to thin the paint to nothing and do multiple coats, like with acetone. With the right thinner, you can get results close to brushed epoxy with one of two coats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameso321 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 So, how many minutes with a hair dryer on high with a 2-3 ounce bait would you consider is thorough heat set? Also, I do have a proper heat gun, but that gets very hot. Can be used as well? I would like to not burn the bait. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downriver Tackle Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) Here's my set-up for setting AutoAir. Pretty much the same as Createx. 1500W hair dryer. I set each layer of primer and color for about 10 minutes on the medium setting. When all the colors and eyes are done, I blast the lures on high for another 5-10 minutes to seal everything up completely. You do have to be careful though. I've warped a few plastic lures and thin bills by leaving them in for a bit too long. Edited February 2, 2009 by Downriver Tackle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 That's really clever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borderbasser Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I was just curious how a slower drying thinner will help things out with an airbrush? I use acetone with a cheapo single action siphon feed and I have no problems. If anything, it might help keep the clear from drying in the tip, but I would think that you would have to wait a little longer between coats. As far as being able to get a coat that is similar in depth and thickness as epoxy (assuming that is what you meant), I can't even see how you could achieve that with 2 coats of DN, even without any thinner. Don't misunderstand...I'm not trying to question your expertiece on coatings, I'm just trying to understand. Thanks. TJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
