Markell Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Hi, I am usually hanging out in the wire baits forum but wanted to know if any one has made a bait similar to the Lucky Craft live pointer? I was given one as a gift this week and it looks like it would be a complicated task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 If that is the one with multiple joints on 2 wire shafts,I built 4 like it about two years ago.Your right,it is big task,thats why I dropped it...no one would want to pay what you would need to charge for one. My "Flure" has a lot more action because the movement doesn't come from joints,but actually comes from the material itself....Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celticav Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 I am a big fan of the Flure, it has alot more action than the live pointer, JIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Thanks Jim.....I haven't forgot your request for a smaller version....It's on my " too do" list!!..Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markell Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Nathan, Very nice! Are you going to add a smaller version to your line up on your web page? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celticav Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Oh I know you haven't, I know all about to-do lists, make wish there were more hours in the day JIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Jim...Thats the truth...40 hours in a day would be just about right!! Markell...Probably...I'll get a couple proto-types made...and see how they work out,and make any adjustments before I offer them on my site..Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soupysayso Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Nathan, I've never spoken to you directly but I wanted to post to you to let you know that the flure looks like a terrific lure. The wallie seems pretty interesting as well. I read in the posts above you're planning on making a smaller version. I would like to try to imitate alewifes to match the hatch in my lake. Any chance you could include this in your color selection when you make the smaller versions? Maybe there's a color you feel closely resembles alewifes, which one should I buy? I would be one of the first in line to purchase a couple of the smaller versions, say 2.5-3 inches. Likewise with the wallie if it closely resembled an alewife. Difficult requests I'm sure, but I think you may have developed a lure I've thought long and hard about with your "flure". Reminds me of a vintage bait I have with a metal crankbait lip, jig head, and bucktail, but not as nicely tied and groomed as yours. I'm afraid to go with the larger baits because the striper are pretty aggressive here and it would be a shame to lose such a beautiful lure. They like to steal my other "treasured" bigger lures too and it's like hooking onto the back of a freight train and trying to slow it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Soupy...alewifes aren't a prey source here in Missouri,so I'm not familiar with their color...let me know what color they are,and I'm sure I can get you fixed up.Custom colors aren't usually a problem. If your looking for a good striper lure,The Assassin should work for you.I designed that for stripers when I lived in California.I lived just 15 miles from San Luis resivoir/O'neill Forebay.Thats where the world record landlocked striper came from.The flyfishing world record striper also came from there...It was caught by a fishing buddy of mine..Al Whitehurst....Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Hey Soup, Ever tried braided lines? Here I run 30# PowerPro which has an 8 lb diamter and have never lost a chinook or steelhead lure to a fish. You could run 50# PowerPro and still only be at 12# diameter, no stripers are gonna break that I will promise you. Have fun! Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 I have a pointer (100mm I think) and can't see any difference in it from any other jerkbait, other than an unreal paint job. Looks like it could be reproduced quite easily unless there is something inside that I am missing. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Jed,I think they are talking about that multi jointed job they have out...at least thats what I was talking about...Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Oh ok, the snake looking thing, that is a really cool looking bait. I have never had my hands on that thing but would love to try to reproduce something like it. Give it a try Nathan, bet you could come up with something close. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Hey Jed...thanks for your vote of confidence...look at my first responce at the top of the page..Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 The "flure" is a cool looking bait. Is the head of the bait wood, lead, foam? Also, is there a body to it the bait or is everying behind the head of the bait, feathers and such? Thanks! Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassNator 1 Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Here is what an Alewife looks like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Thanks Bassnator...Is that a olive color on the back?.. Jed, The head is made of wood,and rattles.The body is made of Icelandic sheep wool,and different colored flashabou for accent.Ther is a thin wire shaft that runs through the bait to the back where the second hook is attatched.It looks funny in the picture,but when wet the body takes on a fish shape.The bait has the mechanicle motion of a cranbait,with the natural flowing motion of fur...you can't replicate that with a typicle jointed bait. Too be honest it hasn't sold well....YET..it's too funky looking!!..Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Nathan, That really is an ingenius looking critter you have built, the job looks to be excellent and you can tell there is a considerable amount of labor that went into the bait. It might be something that will have to be demonstrated to get people to buy. Best Regards, jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soupysayso Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Nathan, thanks for the quick response and I'm sorry it took longer than expected to get back to you about alewifes. I've done internet searches trying to find you a good picture to go with. I had some GREAT pictures on my other computer that I used for painting up some mod-baits, but the harddrive took a dump and now I can't find them. The picture posted of one gives the general idea but I'll try to verbally explain and if I locate a pic I'll post it. The back of the alewifes here is a smokey grey-blue, thinking civil war uniform or better yet the citadel's uniform color. They have silvery sides with a distinct gold spot at the rear of the gill plate (just looks like somebody took spray paint and put a touch at the back of gill plate and part-way onto body. The belly is a pearl white. The smokey grey-blue back fades into the silvery sides pretty high up on the baitfish and the pearl white fades about 1/3 of the way up horizontally. Some of them, at least the dead ones I've picked out of the water and put in my boat, seem to have a golden stripe that runs from the gill plate spot to about the tail down the middle length horizontally. If you could see the pods of bait here and read about my ideas below you'd know why I'm so high on your lure. There's literally hundreds of thousands of these rascals roaming around on top early in the morning and late at night. During evening tournaments, these pods will actually follow my boat around knowing that my boat will keep predators away, it's amusing....they trail me like I've got them caught in a net. I've modified some standard baits and vintage baits to match the hatch. Currently, I use a canadian wiggler, which is stamped brass and plated in various colors, mostly silver. I add some paint and tie up a feathered treble. It gives me a whipping action that is devastating here I boat a limit of 14inchers in about 10 minutes in June and July. It allows me to crank slowly and I can dredge the bottom at 30ft. Also, I play around with a vintage bait called the "beno" for imitating the lucky craft live pointer. It has a flatfish/lazy ike face with several tails attached. I've learned that the cup face gives off a great action and that has been the idea behind nearly all of my designs. People doctor up the old "blue striper" for the sashaying action. I've personally seen very large bass come out of 80ft of water after a blue striper that only goes 2-3 feet down, simply because of paint scheme and sashay action. This year the bait was smaller and the blue stripers didn't work due to being 4.5 inches long not including the tail. So I've made my own copycat mod, smaller of course! I believe the flure will have the whipping sashay action I'm looking for and I should be able to "slow-roll" it 40ft down or deeper if necessary. These fish will suspend 60-80ft down over 100 ft of water in the fall. I know how frustrating it is to fish a tournament where the bass are that deep and you can't reach them with a crankbait. Jigging spoons and tailspinners put me to sleep! Have you ever seen Waterland's armored swimming jig? Might give you additional ideas (netscape required). www.specialtytackle.com As for stripers, the state record came from here, I believe it was 54lbs., took more than 8 hours to boat, and these guys spend weeks tracking one fish! I don't want to catch stripers on my bass gear. I hooked a pair of 10lb lake trout while fishing for bass and it took me 15 minutes a piece to get them to the boat so I could get my bait back without snapping my 844 loomis. The stripers will strip your reel faster than lightning and there's nothing you can do about it. We're talking ocean gear for those suckers because if you don't turn their heads in the first 30 seconds, they're in the standing timber that tops out around 80feet in 180ft of water. I hooked a 20lb'er once on the Potomac river and he had me halfway to D.C. from the Mattawoman before I knew what had my bait. Guys use 13-15 inch rainbow trout as bait at Raystown, but stripers have been known to steal most any bait if you put it in their face. The smaller bait up's my percentage that what I hook will be a bass. I'm off on a tangent but you get the idea. Oh, as a side note Nathan, if I start catching fish like crazy on the custom flures, I'll post the pics and I'd be more than happy to rep./distribute your lure here after I win a couple tournaments with it, need to keep it a secret for a little while. Guys here are fanatical once word gets out about a bait that is working, money is NO object to them. Similarly, if I ever see more dead alewife's, I'll grab them up and take some photos. Let me know how your process moves along and I'll try to correspond closely with you and of course pay you for your work. I'd like to start with 3 for now, til I'm sure they're what I'm looking for. If you could vary the weights so that I can work multiple depths and conditions easily that would be fantastic! This is, of course, assuming that your head is lead, I'm not 100% sure. If so, 1/4oz, 3/8oz, and 1/2 oz ought to do the trick to start. If I need to go heavier I'll get back in touch for more! If they're not lead, that's fine too....but the search will continue for that "super deep crank". I think that's about all for now. Thanks again for the quick response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soupysayso Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Oops, just read that the head is made of wood. Sorry about that. I'm still interested though. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soupysayso Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 My apologies for multiple posts in a row. Some pictures for y'all to enjoy. Has a lead core that holds lip and hook with a crudely formed hard plastic head that covers the link ups. Marabou on top, bucktail for the rest. It's ragged but I think I can duplicate it. Nathan, you could call it a "crig"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Soup, Very interesting post you have put up. From what you have told me I would love to connect with a huge striper, sound like our salmon. Have you thought about using divers? Here we use them extensively for getting any bait you want down to 50 feet. They slide on the line and can be purchased from 10' to 50', maybe more for all I know. When you hook a fish they just slide, no problem at all to use them. Also, you could use some kind of lead wire splitter set-up with a long leader trailing. Downriggers may be an option too. Finally, there are cranks out there that will get to more than 30 feet with light line. Have you looked at any of the "hotlips" line? Run the 3/4 ounce version on a braided line, 6 or 8 lb diameter, 20-30 lb test respectively. The thin diameter will take you "deep down" in a hurry. The braid is so strong it's scary! I'm curious, what kind of action does the second lure picture you have posted have? The "unknown" lure, very cool looking. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soupysayso Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Jed, Everybody here downrigs, I have a bass boat and I'm not "ruining" it with downriggers, thinking about resale! Most guys own a deep V hull and are set up for it. I really don't want to catch stripers unless I'm on somebody else's boat with somebody else's equipment . Additionally, trolling is illegal in bass tournaments. But, you're absolutely right about everything you say with the downriggers, it's not uncommon to see 50-100 boats trolling the main river channel here for the stripers and lakers. We even have some landlocked salmon! Walleye are the new craze. Ya ever get out this way I'll hook you up with a great guide to see if you can get hooked up with one of these monsters. As for the old lure, it sinks like a jig, wiggles like a crankbait, and the action? WOW! I hate to throw it for fear of losing it. Nothing gives off action in the water like fur, feathers, and hair. I figure Nathan may be able to come up with a good blend that is more deadly than what is tied in this mystery lure. To me, it appears to have a "mepps" french style blade as a lip and bent in order to create a concave place for water pressure to build and create dive/wiggle. With regards to crankbaits, I just got the "precision casting guide" in the mail yesterday and I've seen that the luhr jensen 3/4 oz hot lips express TA is the deepest diver. They want like $7.19 at the luhr jensen site and my search for other retailers was in vain! Anybody know where I can buy these? I see plenty of the non bent lips but I'd like a few of the TA versions for playing with. My father has a massive supply of lexan and plexiglass and I would like to play with the idea of making these lips. I think there are materials out there to "cook" up your own lexan. Maybe somebody could provide some guidance here and I could manufacture some lips that are similar for people to put in their crankbaits. The canadian wiggler I've mentioned is phenomenal! I can cast it double what I can cast other lures because it's stamped brass, can count it down, and begin retrieve. Like I say, I dredge bottom at 30ft and if I count it down, I can get a dive curve that will come close to 40ft. based on my electronic readings of bottom and then feel of the bait. I'm awaiting the release of the new MAV system from aqua-vu. www.aquavu.com Looks interesting but when they sent me materials they claimed retail would be around $800 and I see now it's in the neighborhood of $2000!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Soup, So the old lure, is the bill shaped to encourage the lure to dive or is the lure made of lead? The pic looks like the bill just comes straight out. I wouldn't cast that thing for anything if I was you until you are able to reproduce it. I love old lures and couldn't imagine losing one to a rock, yikes! Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soupysayso Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Jed, There's a lead core inside, you can see it when you look close, looks to be about a 1/4oz ball head or less. Rest of head is made of plastic (kinda looks like hardened foam), crudely formed I might add! The lip would come out straight except that somebody modified it by bending the lip to create a concave surface. Sinks rather slowly but definitely wiggles like a crankbait. Had a northern chase it to the boat in Canada last time I had it in the water and that caused me to retire it. Wish I had a clue who designed it, I'd hate to duplicate it and not give credit where credit is due. Pretty much like a countdown rapala but made of hair. Neat huh? I'm gonna work on a duplicate wood head to hopefully pour my FIRST plastic mold. Little nervous about that but it's a really small task so the learning experience shouldn't be real costly. Should be able to get head cranked out of wood with dremel pretty quick. I'll post a pic when it's done. Might try to modify one of my old jig head molds with a dremel to make room for a bib. Wouldn't putting the line tie on top of the head give me more water pressure on the lip and thus more natural crankbait wiggle? Say with a 60 degree jig head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
