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Ban on lead sinkers and jigs in Illinois

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"Sagacious", nope, high lead blood test result no surprise since I have chosen to avoid use of a respirator. Right now low danger zone, if it gets worse will use one for dirty jobs like melting wheel weights. I think the smoke from the burning off wheel weight contaminants might entrain Pb oxide particulates. Fairly sure my working temps are below 1100 F vaporization threshhold.

Not sure what to believe on the real danger of lead or zinc in the environment. On the one hand, the info on leach barrier oxide coating formation sounds credible, but isn't this within a neutral PH water or air environment? In the presence of acidic conditions don't the metals degrade into toxic & soluble chlorides & sulphates? I have observed that clear rainwater bonded with a chunk of lead will turn milky white in a very short time. Not being argumentative, just seeking clarification.

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"Sagacious", nope, high lead blood test result no surprise since I have chosen to avoid use of a respirator. Right now low danger zone, if it gets worse will use one for dirty jobs like melting wheel weights. I think the smoke from the burning off wheel weight contaminants might entrain Pb oxide particulates. Fairly sure my working temps are below 1100 F vaporization threshhold.

Hawnjigs,

I'm quite sure you're right. Smoke from refining scrap lead undoubtedly contains literally hundreds of toxic compounds-- as does most smoke-- but also surely contains particulate lead and probably some vaporized lead. In this case, though, it's hard to point to the lead when the other compounds are either significantly more toxic or equally toxic-- and in greater quantity. Best practice is of course to avoid breathing lead-refining smoke. If one cannot ensure adequate (read: strong) ventilation, then a respirator is mandatory-- and never a bad idea.

While the refined lead may not have reached anywhere near 1100*F, the chemical process where volatile compounds evolve smoke at 600-700*F does not need to reach the heat of vaporization to put lead into particulate form. During refining, lead is finely subdivided and subjected to high heat, strong updraft, and smoke evolution. That will carry lead dust and lead oxide soot with it. Likewise, use adequate ventialtion and don't breathe the smoke from fluxing lead.

I wish to stress that my points here are primarily directed at hobbyist melting and pouring of lead, and not specifically lead-refining. Lead refining carries the inherent risk of lead particulate ingestion. Scrap lead refining obviously evolves significant noxious fumes. A pot of 700*F lead does not evolve vapors as a pot of hot water evolves steam. The vapor pressure of lead is fairly high.

Note that "pure" rainwater is acidic due to the presence of carbonic acid formed as soon as water is exposed to carbon dioxide. Carbonic acid will react with exposed metallic lead to form lead carbonate, which is not water soluble but forms a hazy white leached suspension. This is true of many metals. Once exposed lead is covered with a layer of lead oxide and lead carbonate, and some of the other non-lead-bearing compounds that will form on the surface, it is no longer reactive or water soluable. And once the lead is passivated, slightly acidic lake waters won't react with PbO to form water soluble compounds, and PbO is insoluable in water otherwise. Seawater is slightly basic, and so a lead sinker sitting on the bottom of the ocean poses no environmental threat. The lead is not available for biological uptake. Lead has long been used for cable sheathing because the lead oxide coating is stable and strong but non-progressive, thus slowing the rate of corrosion and protecting the cable. The PbO won't migrate with groundwater.

Not sure what to believe on the real danger of lead or zinc in the environment. On the one hand, the info on leach barrier oxide coating formation sounds credible, but isn't this within a neutral PH water or air environment? In the presence of acidic conditions don't the metals degrade into toxic & soluble chlorides & sulphates? I have observed that clear rainwater bonded with a chunk of lead will turn milky white in a very short time. Not being argumentative, just seeking clarification.

No worries Hawnjigs, the above questions are insightful. And I hear ya, we've all been told that lead is terrible, and that point is not going to be taken lightly by someone who suffered high blood-lead levels. I take it that while your lead level was no surprise, since you refined scrap lead, you suffered no specific lead-toxicity-related symptoms-- or yes? I do hope you didn't suffer serious injury, and are feeling well. From your reply above, I take it as well that you were unable to pinpoint the exact route of ingestion. The lead ion is mistaken by the body for calcium, and metabolized when the body needs calcium. This is what puts nursing mothers and infants at risk, and why developing children are at significantly higher risk of lead poisoning than an adult. However, some people do not retain as much calcium as others, and thus are constantly metabolizing calcium and that increases one's risk of lead poisoning-- even in an adult. Among other things, for example, if you're lactose intolerant, your calcium levels may be lowered and your body may uptake lead more readily.

One could probably put the practical question of environmental zinc toxicity to rest for good when it becomes aparent that virtually every bridge sheds hundreds of pounds of sacrificial zinc yearly without hazard to the environment-- or the courts would likely be clogged with EPA lawsuits on zinc pollution. Additionally, while many waterways have prohibited lead, none (as far as I know) have prohibited zinc sinkers or sacrificial zinc anodes. That lost zinc goes straight into the waterway, but largely precipitates as ZnO and poses no environmental hazard. The zinc that remains in solution is either chemically passivated or taken up as a vital mineral by micro-organisms. That zinc is not converted to a hazardous form in the way that bacteria respire and convert metallic mercury to much more toxic form that is readily available for biological uptake. Except at unreasonably high levels, both zinc oxide and zinc sulfate are harmless. Again, the dosage makes the difference between cure and killer-- but that's true of everything. If some zinc sinkers got lost in a stream, no harm at all. If a railcar of zinc chloride overturns into a stream, well that's a different matter. Treating every metal in "railcar" terms is what causes the common alarmist reaction to environmental considerations.

Zinc has always been in the environment as an essential mineral, and thus biological organisms have evolved mechanisms to use or remove it. This is not generally the case with lead, and that problem is further compounded by it's chemical confusion with calcium, which the body desperately requires. The question of how to view zinc or lead in the environment is an individual one, but I would answer it like this: if I saw an iron bolt lying in the dirt, I'd accord it no threat. If I saw a zinc washer lying in the dirt, I'd do likewise. A lead sinker poses a threat if it's small enough to be eaten by a bird (a bird with a piece of lead shot in it's muscle mass can live out it's life otherwise unfettered, as the lead isn't converted to a toxic form and metabolized).

Hope this addresses your questions and observations.

Good fishing,

sagacious

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"Sagacious", your info has made me more comfortable that lead & zinc slinging anglers probably won't significantly impact our water resources compared to say mercury polluters. Of course lead ingestion is still dangerous & I will avoid as much as possible personal risk or subjecting others to it. That being said I think that ingestible size uses like small sinkers, shot, small jig heads, etc. could perhaps be totally phased out of use since non-toxic alternatives are available at reasonable cost.

Hmm, lactose intolerance & dietary calcium deficiency may be a factor in my elevated lead level since I quit milk consumption 40 years ago. Member "Fatman" who has been lead pouring longer than my dozen years posted that his in body lead count is 0 !

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Hawnjigs,

I'm glad the info was in some way helpful. I agree with all of your points above.

My understanding of the available evidence indicates that some people may be exposed to lead at high levels for decades, and suffer no adverse affect and even display a below-average blood-lead level. Of course, in matters of health, one should always take the cautious approach, and keep an eye-out for any useful information too. When refining scrap lead, I always used to take a couple calcuim tablets before hand, and make sure I was totally hydrated..... ya know, just in case!

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"Sagacious", my wife is a supplement-a-holic so I think I'll take your suggestions of popping a few cal-mags before pouring with lots of liquid. Thanks!

Sorry, to digress to your question concerning symptoms if any at my low danger in body level of lead, unfortunately, published data of lead toxicity symptoms are too similar to old fartitis to separate!

Edited by hawnjigs
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"Sagacious", my wife is a supplement-a-holic so I think I'll take your suggestions of popping a few cal-mags before pouring with lots of liquid. Thanks!

Sorry, to digress to your question concerning symptoms if any at my low danger in body level of lead, unfortunately, published data of lead toxicity symptoms are too similar to old fartitis to separate!

LOL!

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WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER ON THIS ONE!!!

I don't think a ban on lead lure/sinkers is good for any of us sportsmen. The birds that die from this are mostly migratory game birds and who knows what state or country the bird ate lead in. In Wisconsin they are talking about banning lead handgun/rifle bullets.I hear about PETA rumbleing about soft plastic lures killing fish .This is just a way for politicians to look good and tree huggers to feel good. While the big lure manufactures line there pockets .Pretty soon we will have nothing to fish with but our hands because our new non-toxic bio-degradable hooks gives the fish a sore mouth and I don't feel like noodling a musky .

They do make handheld spectrameters that tell metal makeup and some DNR officers do carry them in some states to tell lead from non magnetic alternatives

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