Mass Hand Pouring

[robalo01]

I'm in Monterrey, Mexico, and allthough noone that I know of pours plastics, other than me, for local consuopmtion, there are a few export rigs set up down here. They do a temporary import of the materials, pour the stuff by hand and then export EVERYTHING (by law) that they import.

Thay keep ther methods pretty close to their lapel, but, the ither day I ran into a guy that used to work for one of them. I'll refrain from giving out the brand here.

He said that when they hand-pour 1-part molds:

1. The mold they use is very large -- maybe 36"X36" and has several dozen cavities.

2. They slightly pre-heat the molds

3. They pour the hot plastic generousely over the entire mold.

4. They use a "squeegy" (SP) to scrape off the eccess plastic from over the cavities.

5. Then, proceed to a different mold while the first one cools.

Has anybody heard of or use this method?

[Pitbull Baits]

I can honsetly say I have never heard of anything like that. But it might work if they had perfected it.

[Delw]

I'm in Monterrey, Mexico, and allthough noone that I know of pours plastics, other than me, for local consuopmtion, there are a few export rigs set up down here. They do a temporary import of the materials, pour the stuff by hand and then export EVERYTHING (by law) that they import.

Thay keep ther methods pretty close to their lapel, but, the ither day I ran into a guy that used to work for one of them. I'll refrain from giving out the brand here.

He said that when they hand-pour 1-part molds:

1. The mold they use is very large -- maybe 36"X36" and has several dozen cavities.

2. They slightly pre-heat the molds

3. They pour the hot plastic generousely over the entire mold.

4. They use a "squeegy" (SP) to scrape off the eccess plastic from over the cavities.

5. Then, proceed to a different mold while the first one cools.

Has anybody heard of or use this method?

I think he is feeding you full of BS

squeegy' plastic doesnt work and wont for hand pouring for a few reasons.

if its an alum mold it will cool off to fast and hardend dragging good plastic out of the cavity.

if its a resin mold it will make more of a mess than its worth.

resin molds you dont need to preheat so I am assuming its a alum mold.

also during the cooling process the bait will shrink if you squeegy the top it will sink below the top line and not give you a thick bait.

sure the mold can me made to allow for shrinkage, but it would be useless and just added time to a procution run that is in necc,

Hand pouring baits on a 36"x 36" plate would be extreamly difficult, do to the reach, not to mention the time it would take a bait to cool off after pouring a bunch of baits on a plate like this would be non justtifiable to have one made, plus it would not be cost efective at all.

Plastic to mexico is delivered a few ways , mostly its smuggled into the country via 5 gallon gas cans( telling the border its gas for ATVS) the other way is mismarking the 55 gal drum and shipped with other companies products, like oils and coolants for machining ( they just buy a few 55 gal drums of plastic and mark put it in that shipment), and pay offs to local mexican border agents

Mexico has some pretty high tarriffs and taxs on bringing plastic into mexico. The only reason I know this is due to a few Lowlife American companies that use mexican labor across the border so they can get something done for next to nothing and sell the bait at high prices asking me to hook them up in the ways I mentioned above,over the years.

Any American bait company that uses mexican labor and a plant in mexico are thiefs. most come out of CA a few out of texas and 3 out of az that I know of. They also dont't have to worry about the EPA, tax's and a few other things.

I am all for guys making money but I think its deplorable to use mexican labor at the rediculous pay, rip off the US government,Get away from the rules and regulations by there city state and also EPA and osha, not to mention workmans comp ss and a few other things, and call them self an American Bait company.

[Bountiful Waters]

Man Del, I think Mexican labor hit a nerve.

I know that when I ship plastics, the tarrif is high going into Mexico. I think it is 17%.

[gunnie3035]

What is the difference between Mexico and China??

[loco]

i couldnt agree more del....

[jimcline]

I'm with Del on this one too. Number one I can't see how in the world that squeegy technique would work unless they know something that none of us do. Number two, if it did work, talk about a burn accident waiting to happen. And three, the Mexican labor thing just bites.

And to the original poster, why not name the company that this guy worked for? I think we have a right to know as American consumers what the people we buy from are up to. Just my opinion. JIM

[robalo01]

Well, guys. I pour soft plastics in Mexico FOR the M

Edited February 26, 2009 by robalo01

[squigster]

I don't know if this would work but what if you kept the mold hot on a stove the whole time you poured? Would the plastic stay liquified without scorching? If it would stay hot enough then you could squeegy the whole thing and let the whole mold cool when you are done I think it would still make a heck of a mess and it would probably mess up some baits.

[carolinamike]

Guys,from what I understand they do use large flat molds with a special plastic formula that they distribute in each cavity with a squeeze type ketchup bottle. Some of the ketchup bottles have needles on them that put out smaller amounts of plastic for dots, stripes and so on. From what I've been told, raw plastic goes into the cavity and then the large mold is run through a pizza cooker. I'm not sure if this is everyone's method, but I am sure that this is one method that is being used in Mexico. As far as squeegeeing the plastic off the mold, I agree with Del, it would have to be hot in order not to roll the bait out of the mold. Maybe if one was made of metal and heated, it might work. I just wouldn't want to be the operator.

[alsworms]

I heard of this method a few years back. Can't for the life of me remember where I heard it from though. Seems like a pretty clever idea, but I think consistency would be the main issue. I know most of you guys are just like me in that I always believed in the old saying "we still pour 'em one at a time". Pretty much tosses that whole idea right out the window!

[Delw]

robalo01

people are only willing to work less there cause they can't get anything else. many factors screwed america up in the sense of an honest days work and honest days pay. and your right taxs are high in mexico for shipping stuff to you guys, higher than canada by a long shot.

Guys,from what I understand they do use large flat molds with a special plastic formula that they distribute in each cavity with a squeeze type ketchup bottle. Some of the ketchup bottles have needles on them that put out smaller amounts of plastic for dots, stripes and so on. From what I've been told, raw plastic goes into the cavity and then the large mold is run through a pizza cooker. I'm not sure if this is everyone's method, but I am sure that this is one method that is being used in Mexico. As far as squeegeeing the plastic off the mold, I agree with Del, it would have to be hot in order not to roll the bait out of the mold. Maybe if one was made of metal and heated, it might work. I just wouldn't want to be the operator.

Now that makes sence's pouring liquid(raw plastic) in there then geating it up in a type of pizza oven, thats very possible.

the problem with sqeeging one that you poured hot plastic in it would be the mold would leave a film on it and be a gummy mess.

even if you have a very hot squeegy it would build up and drag.

What is the difference between Mexico and China??

Not a DARN THING its the same.

Man Del, I think Mexican labor hit a nerve.

Yes it does I donn't believe in it.

If and American Company wants to make parts in mexico then they are not an american company. Way way to many manugacturing jobs have gone to third world counties. all our airplane parts, car parts etc etc. These companies have no Problem trashing another counrty for the sake of making a large sum of money.

When I first started in the manufacturing business it was required that you only bought raw stock from us companies, if your making military parts. or any government projects you must use USA labor.

now you can buy it from anywhere in the world and get it built anywhere in the world, and you MUST( tahts means Required) to have a satilite company in Mexico running parts in order to work with GE honeywell boeing and a few others. they also send to india and a few other countries.

Just this year Honeywell shut down one of the biggest areospace shops in AZ ( which they owned aka allied signal) no more inhouse manufacturing it all goes to mexico and some peon counrty around europe. while they say its only 800 employees what they forgot is the 500-1000 machine shops that did work from them, this also employed the 20 tooling places and the 20-40 machine sellers not to mention the complete state of AZ manufacturng was built around that company.

going going gone......

China can KMA and so can Mexico, india and a few other places. if these american companies are moving what was built in US they are not american Companies.

That goes for chevy ford and dodge.

you want money from the GOV. then you make everything HERE otherwise KMA

[RipLip]

I know this thread has taken I wild turn but I have got to say this.

Del that is poetry that you just spoke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JSC]

I'm with Del on this out of country .. which are a large part "Rackets".

Now on what Mike brought up ... I think the process that he is speaking of is using the old cure in the mold Vinly Pastisol .. cooked quite a bit of it back in the old days before we could get the "Hot Melt" ... I would heat the mold .. pour with a "Katsup" type bottle (Could do some super multi color pours) after the pour place in an oven for the final cure .. take out toss into a bucket of water for a quick cool and strip the mold ... start all over again ... I understand the old Sportsman Worms (Catch Em Quick) whcih turned out a full round worm with this same plastic ... molds were set up open (they were hinged) on a conveyer belt and for there most popular color ( was a spotted worm ) would spray the plastisol thru a screen in the process of going thru a heat tunnel of ultra violet lights ... then the main color was poured allowed to heat so long and at a certain point the mold was quickly closed binding the 2 halves ... then after curing out the other end cooled and had "Fingers" to drag the worms out ... (they were one of the first to have "Floater" worms .. used a "Blowing" agent) I have used the same blowing agent to make my old "Heavy Head" Worm ... had a hard head with a weedless hook molded in and the remainder of the worm was made with soft plastic with the "Blowing Agent" would all ways stand dead on its nose Tail floating straight up ..

A lot of the older (maybe now) Bettles for Bettele spins used the same type plastic and is why they can make so many great color combonations. (I think .. correct me if I am wrong ... but the old Carolina Mfg was done this way)

So it is possible that a type squgee could be used with this type plastic ..

My

JSC

Edited February 27, 2009 by JSC

[robalo01]

robalo01

people are only willing to work less there cause they can't get anything else. many factors screwed america up in the sense of an honest days work and honest days pay. and your right taxs are high in mexico for shipping stuff to you guys, higher than canada by a long shot.

I moved here from Kansas 15 years ago because I love the scenery, the fishing especially, not because I coudn't get anything better. I am an AMERICAN. I love my country. I still vote. I'm proud to have been born there. I am greatful for all of the oportunities it has given me, and, if I might say I took advantage of them, comming from very humble beginnings. I decided long ago I wouldn't depend upon the sweat of my brow to sustain my family. I went to college in Florida and have made a pretty good life for myself.

If people want to save money by building things here, it's only natural. Don't you factor in cost of rent when you choose the area of town where you locate your business? Do you drive accross town to ire a cheaper mechanic? If your home town were New York City, would you locate your facilities on Broadway to support the local ecomony? Imagine the prices you would have to charge! Some people choose to locate their facilities in another country because they can compete better this way. As long as it's clear that their products are made here, the consumer will choose between his pocket book and his desire to keep manufacturing jobs in the USA. If the law isn't broken, and believe me, they don't make the laws easy to comply with when it comes to exporting to the USA, it's fair.

I suppose we would all like to be able to purchase everything from factories and companies in our own home town, but in some cases it is counter-productive to the local economy. Imagine the prices you would have to pay for your auto-parts, consumer electronics, your children's school supplies, and the like if you had to pay $25-$40 an hour to get them made. Are you willing to take the financial hit so that someone can grow up in as Great a country as ours and in this day of high-tech education still want to have all of the aminities of life with a job that obviously takes no more than a junior high education to do? (that's the average level of education down here). If it can be made here it probably doesn't requiere too much technical skill to do.

Please don't generalize. I obey the laws of BOTH countries, and MOST people here do so as well. I'm afraid a lot of people make judgement calls based on a very small sample of a population. I suppose the same thing happens here. A few crazy spring-breakers cause a comotion down here and everybody thinks ALL Amercas are a bunch of hedonistic drunks. Some of us know better.

Please don't be angry. There's always two sides to these things. I agree with you in principal that things aren't right, and many people don't follow the law and should be punished.

The answer isn't to try to hold on to unprofitable, comparatively speaking, manufacturing jobs. If we want to keep our standard of living, we're going to have to begin using the labor force in a way that adds value to the products we are making above and beyond the price we charge for that labor. If it can be made cheaper in another country, some day, inevitably, it will be. We have to raise our sights a little and begin to exercise the muscle we have between our ears and let the people who have not had the benefit of our vast oportunities to better themselves, as we have had, do the heavy lifting. It's not ideal, but, unfortunatly, its a fact.

Great discussion.

[Vodkaman]

Great discussion.

I don't think so. This discussion is so wrong on so many levels. Being a non-USA member, I feel insulted.

Tackleunderground is NOT a USA only site, it is an international site. The only stipulation that the site rules makes is that the posts are written in English.

The original post was a very good one, with lots of U-turns and knowledge spread. But this ugly turn is not welcome and should be removed from the thread.

Dave

[Pitbull Baits]

I have a couple questions on this topic. If most of the factory manufacting jobs leave the U.S. with a large part of the U.S. jobs being lost. Who do the companys think is going to be able to afford to buy the proudcts that they import back to the U.S. When most of the people who buy it are without a job. Here's the second question. If we make so much money and cause these companys to leave for cheaper labor why does that same proudct cost the same price or most likely more. From what I hear it is cheaper to import back here than to make it here. My public school math can't seem to add it up. Please do not blame the unions ( I am not in a union) because every time the companys get rid of them the price of the product or service just goes up any way. Thats another one my public school math can't do.

One last thing robalo1 I noticed you said. You still vote were you meanig in Mexico or the U.S.

Well enough of that crap I think the mass pouring might be able process.

[Bogbaits]

I guess we could all jump on the bandwagonbut lets be real,Theres not a day that goes by that we dont buy,use something made in another country If you dont believe it then your living in a make believe world,,Its the world we live in,In a way we are responsible for a lot of this ourselves,demanding high wages and pushing companies to manufacture for less to maximize their profits,a viscious cycle that had to end,i would love to see it all come back to america and I believe it will,but we will be the ones to pay for it in lower wages and lower class of living,to bash other countries is truly juvenile and childish,its no ones fault but our own greed that got us here like it or not !

[Pitbull Baits]

I don't think so. This discussion is so wrong on so many levels. Being a non-USA member, I feel insulted.

Tackleunderground is NOT a USA only site, it is an international site. The only stipulation that the site rules makes is that the posts are written in English.

The original post was a very good one, with lots of U-turns and knowledge spread. But this ugly turn is not welcome and should be removed from the thread.

Dave

I forgot Vodkaman You are right on that. But you have to rember a lot of us are upset about what is going on right now. A lot of us are seeing famliy and friends losing eveything. Because these companys a lot of us had gave are sweat and blood to help build and some their lives are taking a heaping dump on us and jetting out of the U.S.. By doing that they are killing the ones who stay here to die with their people than sell out. So don't be insulted at us just under stand are feelings. We are proud of what we built now we can't stand to see it fall. To sum it up were scared :censored:less and off. I'll shut up now.

[robalo01]

Well, since you asked a couple of questions, let try to answere them for you.

1. Nobody is sayng that Americans should NOT have a well paying job. but, the fact is that we can't continue to demand high wages for processes that don't require high level of skills and participate in a global economy. Eventually we need to put our education to use. And most of the people on this site do.

2. Actually, imported produts are cheaper than Amercian products in most cases where they require labor intensive manufacturing. Just do a simple comparison. I know. For example Zebco isn't selling its reels any cheaper now that they are made in China. But they probably would have had to raise their prices consierably and maybe gone out of business if they hadn't.

3. I voted absentee in the US election.

[Pitbull Baits]

I am not trying to get into a match about this I see your points in which I respect. But everybody keeps saying wages. Should't the EPA be a big part of the blame. Since we have to follow the laws they set. Which seem to be over costly and are to help stop global warming and all that crap. So wouldn't that be a huge upper to their profit. The funny thing about that is the same people fighting for the green movment are buy the proudcts that destroy other country's enviorment well all of ours in the long run.

[robalo01]

From my experience, wages are the biggest factor. I consult for a few international companies that manufacture here, some from the US and most of them are very responsible with environmental standards.

You have to undersatnd something about the business environment here. The government is very strict here with all kinds of things from environmental hazards to personnel safety and the like, but only with "fromal" companies. That is to say, when a company like Culprit manufactures here, the government controls very closely their practices.

Many smaller conpanies, on the other hand, are very irresponsible, the government has practically no contol over them. The "cottage" industry is hardly regulated at all. Some smaller US operations take advantage of this and do es Del talked about, smuggling things back and forth. But this is just not feasible for large manufacturers.

[Pitbull Baits]

Is it funny or what! Talking about making plastic fishing worms can lead to world wide war.

Edited February 28, 2009 by Pitbull Baits

[Delw]

I don't think so. This discussion is so wrong on so many levels. Being a non-USA member, I feel insulted.

Tackleunderground is NOT a USA only site, it is an international site. The only stipulation that the site rules makes is that the posts are written in English.

The original post was a very good one, with lots of U-turns and knowledge spread. But this ugly turn is not welcome and should be removed from the thread.

Dave

Why should it be removed? I think its a good discussion.

no one is slamming any other country, what about people who get things built in your country and don't pay tax's tarriffs and smuggle things in wouldnt you be pissed you tax dollars have to make up for it.

Many smaller conpanies, on the other hand, are very irresponsible, the government has practically no contol over them. The "cottage" industry is hardly regulated at all. Some smaller US operations take advantage of this and do es Del talked about, smuggling things back and forth. But this is just not feasible for large manufacturers.

an NAFTA the biggest Screw-up this country made. I used to goto the nafta shows in colexico, I toured the black and decker, sony and a few other shops, I helped set-up and designed the machine shop for a big mold company there also advised a few semiconducter plants on how to(equipment) and some training.

My neighbor who I did a ton of work for was very heaviily involved in NAFTA and I did it just to helkp him out. If I would have known back then what I do now I would ahve never ever gone down there.

Remember Nafta was suppose to be 2 sided they do some here we do some there. thats what out government said.

what they didnt figure in was the greed by companies in the US.

its very political.

I also worked with Kuja die and mold in China, They made the molds for a press I helped redesign for motorolla. I manufactured the press's about 12 a year. it was no big deal on my part as far as jobs in the shop( I could take it or leave it) it was kinda my pet project cause it was somethig different than our areospace work and I was able to make it from my desings to a finished product we which rarely see in most machine shops so it was kinda cool to build a complete machine from scratch not just parts for a machine.

robalo01

I am not picking on mexico, you said american lure company and that kinda got me thinking of the typical bs that AMERICAN companies do. Especially the ones that don't care about this or that just the bottom line.

[loco]

im telling you guys, i agree with dell. im totally against these american companies taking our good american jobs to other countries. i really beleive this is one of the major reasons for this economic down turn we are in. the united states has become a "service industry" country. we simply dont make anything anymore. that takes away our backbone as a country and makes us rely on other countries for our goods.

im a purchasing agent for a living for the USA's 2nd largest labor union. i work out of their national headquarters. one of my responsibilities is to purchase goods made in the usa and union made. its the hardest part of my job. try finding paperclips made in this country. i can get t-shirts made in mexico or china for 2.00 each. the same t-shirt made in the USA is 6.00 each. how is that a level playing field for a US manufacturer ? but there are folks out there that truly try and buy american made products, because we realize the downturn if we dont.

listen, im hispanic.....so i know the culture. but the good ole USA is hurting for good jobs right now. to bring the jobs back, we need to make our own goods. period !

i got so mad on a flight to detroit a few weeks ago when i opened up an inflight magazine and there was an ad for a company that will help american companies get their products manufactured in china or mexico. these companies should be shut down. the american public is fed up with this buracratic nonsense that our government has let happen by agreeing to NAFTA.