carolinamike Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 The other day, I had installed a new heat exchanger on the machine. The temperatures were off, so as a result, I ended up heating 4 lbs of plastic around 600 degrees. I did not realize I was having a malfunction until it was too late. I blew the burnt plastic out and immediately left the building. I told this to my plastic supplier, he immediately freaked out. He informed me that burnt plastisol is a serious health hazard. When plastisol reaches the stage of burning, as in turning black and not being liquid any more, the fumes off of it and the smoke become very very toxic. I forgot the chemical name that he told me, but when it contacts moisture, or moist tissue it immediately turns to acid, which if breathed in, can result in a very serious case of chemical pneumonia. I was lucky, I can remember doing hand pours and leaving a small amount in a Lee pot to heat up, and forgot about it. I burned the plastic badly. I entered the building, unplugged the pouring pot and then turned on the exhaust fan. A few days later, I ended up developing a very serious sinus infection, it caused me such a problem, that I didn't pour plastic for a long time. Now I know what happened. I can remember trying to hold my breath with my mouth closed. Apparently, I breathe through my nose. Please guys, be very careful! If you burn plastic to this point, don't enter the room, stay out until the smoke and the fumes settle. Remember your sinuses, your eyes, and your lungs are all moist tissue. This might have been mentioned before but I've never seen it and I thought it would be good to pass along to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squigster Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Good Info. Should probably post this alos in the Donts for Newbies sticky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEE Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hope you are Ok! Thanks for the warning, I could see that happening and not knowing what to do or the consequences...appreciate the heads up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 mike If I remember right when it burns it creates a gas as bad as cyanide. its pastic pvc buring very very bad stuff and highly toxic. I hear it is gummy when floting in the air and will stick to lung tisse and other respitory areas. Very bad stuff burning plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrav Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'm utterly amazed that you could even breathe this stuff for more than a breath or two! I scorched a small batch and didn't even get it to my lungs when my throat and upper resp just locked-up and I jumped back. Yeah, it's supposely stupid, but a big 5 gal bucket of water ain't a bad thing to have handy when remelting. If a pot or glass gets scorched and the dreaded smoke starts billowing, throw the pot in the bucket. It may shatter, but it will kill the smoke and fumes instantly. The plastic and glass/metal cool rapidly underwater if the pail is large enough. Obviously, this is a no go with an electric pot, but a better alternative with the smaller cups than allowing the stuff to smolder. Even if it "explodes", it a pretty minor shattering of sorts, no projectiles will come flying out of the bucket. IME, the whole event is rather lacking of any drama beyond a loud hiss or pop. Scorch is mean, have a contingency plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipLip Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Mike, thanks for the info. I remember burning some in the microwave a while back and it turned black and was smoking something fierce. Thankfully when I'm remelting in a microwave I wear a full face mask with canisters so it didn't bother me. I don't wear one when using my pots because that room has extensive exhaust control but it still would be a good idea. Defenitely a good warning everyone should keep stored in the front of there brain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhorlings Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Most of the plastic that we use is PVC based which when burnt create Chlorine Gas. The same stuff used in chemical warfare back in the wars. I work for a plastics manufacturer and if we burn any we legally have to empty the building. This stuff is bad if burnt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastorshane Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Thanks for the warning another reason to always wear a resporator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBaits Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I pour with a respirator on but this is good info to know. Just to get things straight when liquid plastic smokes its not as hazardous, but when it turns into a black blob and billows smoke thats when the problems occur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 JD's Baits, You're correct in the regular use of plastic. It doesn't produce this particular chemical, it's when the stuff is burnt beyond the liquid form and becomes a black spongy mass that it becomes very serious. My plastic manufacturer said he'd seen people develop chemical pneumonia in less than 6 hours after exposure. So please don't play around with this stuff at this stage. If you're using a microwave, the best thing to do would be to not even open the microwave. Jrav, The bucket of water is a good idea but the problem is that you're taking a chance of exposure going from your heating area to the bucket. I wouldn't take this chance. It would be best to do as Bhorlings said and completely evacuate the area. I personally will never blow my system out again if this happens. I will let it setup in the heat exchanger and then after it cools down, I'll just have to take it apart and clean it out. As far as respirators go, it would probably give a reasonable amount of protection, but I would think your filter canisters would have to be designated for this chemical. Guys this is bad stuff! Nothing to play around with. I happen to take the mold off and the acid actually stained the aluminum plate of my press. As in permanently stained. And it's left a very rough feeling surface. I'm fortunate everything goes to the ceiling of my building and my exhaust fan is set up high but after looking at the metal today, I realized that could have been my lungs, my eyes, or my sinuses. This was a metal material with just a little moisture, imagine what would have happened if it would have been moist, soft tissue. Please folks, always keep this in mind. You can buy new microwaves, pouring pots and pyrex dishes, but I think Walmart's quit selling bait makers. God bless each and every one of you, please be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTfishingrods Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Respiraters dont protect the eyes either. And I dont know of any blind bait makers out there, I know I wont be the first one. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james bradshaw Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Check your thermocouples. The heating element is most likely good, but the bad thermocouple or bad connection on the thermocouple caused your heater to over run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Great Thread Thanx Mike. Had this to happen once ... now I see how lucky I was.. JSC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Thanks James, But, I know what the problem was, and I'm sure the heating elements are fine considering it got up to 612 degrees. The trouble wasn't a bad thermocouple both thermocouples are good. These are brand new heat exchangers and what happened was the company installed two (grounded) thermocouples, which caused the readings to go haywire. The temperature was reading 360 degrees. When I unplugged the thermocouple that wasn't on, the temperature immediately shot up to 612 degrees. The machine works well with one thermocouple grounded and one not, or two ungrounded thermocouples. But two grounded thermocouples - bad news! Again thanks but it didn't take but about 2 seconds to figure out what was going on. I just mainly wanted to give a warning on how bad this stuff is when it burns to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troul Hawk Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Never hurts to hear the safety stuff. Great thread, and thanks for the info. I wear a respirator, but still pour under the exhaust fan. Haven't burnt any plastic yet, but that is a matter of time I am sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
