Pasqually Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) Hi, My name is David. I am looking for someone I can visit and learn from for a couple of hours. I have been carving and hand painting lures for a couple of years now. I am getting pretty good at this part but am having continued issues with what I believe to be lip and tow eye placement causing excessive failure and frustration. I live in Bloomington MN. Please help. PM me or send me an email at dapasko@safetycall.com Thank you. Sincerely, David Pasko Edited March 30, 2009 by Pasqually Needed to provide a way I can be contacted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 True, visiting someone first hand will be an enlightening experience. But in the mean time, you could post some pics, with as much information as possible about materials, ballast location sizes etc. This way you can collect several opinions as to your problem. There have been a few posts of this type of late. They are very useful, not just for you, but for many others new to the art and even to some of the more experienced builders. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 As Vman said post some pics and im sure you will find that everyone here is willing to help out.A few pics of your lure and a brief desciption of weight placements is really all you need to get started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 The other thing you can do is study the design of lures that work. Look at the lip angle, look at where the line tie is at. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Pas. sometimes just moving your line tie the width of your finger nail makes a huge difference... Best thing to do is not glue the lip in.. and try a bunch of different styles of lip with different eye tie placements.. my experience in trial and error is this.. the closer you move your eye tie to the nose of the bait the bigger the wobble.. the closer you move you eye tie to the end of the lip the tighter the wobble.. but it will come to a point were it doesnt work.. Dave has a word for this but the solvents I have been working with all day are effecting my mind.. anyway.... their are tons of other factors that you could put in a equation to determine the solution..but math was never my thing...and you will learn a ton from your mistakes.. way more than if it works from the get go! Try this first.. Coffen lip Square lip Deep diving lip Use different eye tie placements on each... The fun part is when you have a design that doesnt work and you figure out how to make it work.. After you figure it out.. its really kinda boring and you want to go make something new so you have a challenge again.. But Dave is right if you show us a picture of the body of the lure you made.. then Im sure someone here will help you out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasqually Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Ok, I guess part I will try to be more proactive with this one. What I would like to do is make this one dive about 4-6 feet. I'm no sure what other sort of relevant information to add. Where would you envision the line tie and lip going? What shape lip? Anything else you want to throw in would be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) That looks about 6" long! What is the actual length and depth at the deepest point? How thick is it (a pic would help)? Where did you put the ballast? How high out of the water is it on the float test (with hooks fitted) another pic? What material? You didn't actually say what the problem that you are having was. Do they swim like a stick (no action) or blow out (spiral or swim on side)? What shape lip were you using and how big (a pic of the lure that failed would help, with a ruler in the pic, also a view of the lip)? I'm thinking 45 deg lip, about 5/8" - 3/4" back from the nose, with tow eye in the nose. Ballast in the thickest part of the body, low down. I have not made a crank this big before, so I cannot even guess how big the lip would have to be. Scaling up from a 3" - 4" length lure does not always work, it is more complicated than that. I would start with a square bottomed or fan shaped lip, angled about 20 - 30 deg from side to side, tapering back to the body width, where it intersects. Length looking too long. Shorten it, at the waters edge, until it works. I am expecting conflicting opinions on this, as like I said, this one is outside my experience range. Dave Edited March 31, 2009 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I've built a CAD model, so we can get a visual on members suggestions. This is just a start point. Needs bigger hooks than I have shown, but haven't drawn any yet. Anything on the model can be easily changed. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasqually Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 That design is very cool! Are the lines on there to give it dimension? Do the represent anything else in particular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman2 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I'm not smart enough to be your/a mentor for lure building, but if I was, the first thing I'd say is FOCUS!!. Vodkaman's got a bunch of questions that only you can answer. He's awfully smart, but I haven't seen or heard about his mind reading ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasqually Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Thanks again for the help. I just went and got the bait (I'm at work) and measured it. I didn't do anything to it beyond carve, sand, and paint it. It is 50 year old balsa wood, length is about 5.25" and its thickest point is 3/4" I guess what I meant about being proactive on this one was that I wanted to take a much different approach on it (cheat maybe) to leanr more about the process as hand on as possible and avoid further yet likely beneficial frustration. Thank You! Here's more pics. Hope this will suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firechief Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I agree F_O_C_U_S is the key issue here Listen to the V-man because he is very smart about these sorts of things. Answer the questions and he will be better able to respond to your needs. This is a great place to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 The lure in your picture looks more like a lipless rattle trap type bait, which has the tow eye along the back. If this was your intention, I cannot help you, as I have never built one of these. So I will just talk about my kind of bait, with the nose eye and lip. To answer your question, the curves on the CAD model are purely construction. I did not need to display them, but they show the shape clearer. The lateral curve shows the max thickness location of the model. First off, regarding your build, you have gotten way ahead of yourself, especially if this is your first attempt. Once you have a design that works, yes, you can complete the entire lure with confidence, knowing that it will swim. But even experienced builders, attempting a new design or a new shape or even a new length, will do extensive testing before breaking out the paint set. You need to establish the amount of ballast first. This means float testing the lure in a bucket of water, adding and subtracting lead, changing the position of the lead, until it floats how you want it. The float test needs to take into account the paint, top coat and hardware (hooks, eyes), so needs to float a tad higher than the final lure will. Before putting your carved body anywhere near water, it should be sealed or the wood will absorb water and ruin any paint you add later. I do not know what density balsa you have, so I am going to assume that it is a denser variety, as the light stuff (model aircraft balsa) is way too soft for lures. I have adjusted my CAD model to your dimensions and done some numbers based on a balsa density of 0.2gm/cm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasqually Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Thanks for the advice. I have made a few lipped cranks in the past. I have even had some success getting them to swim. I made some fun topwater baits recently that I'm pretty excited about using. At this time the unnecessary painting is mostly for fun and practice. Just trying to go through the steps and work out the kinks as I go. Here are some pictures of some fun ones that I have recently made. I dont have an arbrush, but use your imagination. I'm also trying to teach myself how to dress up treble hooks. I even dyed the deer tails my Father in law shot last fall with kool aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman2 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 ... you said you wanted a mentor.... you got a really good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasqually Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I realize that it was inappropriate of me to post my other pictures here however I cannot figure out how to delete them. I do not seem to have the option to edit my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
