kelly Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) Just to clarify did you bend it up the post (like a buzz bait) or just sharpen the angle of the bend? The idea of it getting enough angle to spin and make it around the wire is not what I have done in the past. Did the wire and blades get in the way of the hook? Basseducer Are the blades on yours big enough to level out the top wire? Generally a willow leaf blade will not have that much Resistance. Like on a pendulum the lead head with a skirt would have more Resistance than the willow leaf blades. Making the blades track on a sharper angle than the skirt. I might be learning how to make the different! I always thought it was for two flash speeds top fast bottom slow flash. This is a new idea to me so please teach me. Edited May 22, 2009 by kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basseducer Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Kelly, I'll post some pics tomorrow. The wife took the camera to the office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 It is no wonder that this type of bait needs some tuning, four variables have to be balanced: resistance of the blades, resistance (bulk) of skirt, weight of head and angle of wire. interesting thread. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphawolf Posted May 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 It is no wonder that this type of bait needs some tuning, four variables have to be balanced: resistance of the blades, resistance (bulk) of skirt, weight of head and angle of wire.interesting thread. Dave Yes, too many variables! After this post though i started to think..Does it really matter if the small front blade spins around the wire? Is wobbling back and forth good enough? Not that the extra one second to bend the wire a little more is too time consuming. It's not like I am doing it for money anyway, I'm just giving them away as a promotion. I did sharpen the angle of the blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 (edited) To Eric and Diemai: Here is the pic I promised you guys. Again this is not my idea, but something I've been tinkering with. The longer the blade arm, the larger the blades you will be ble to use. Location is a key factor for the middle blade. Up the wire will increase vibration as the wire will have a tendency to bend more, down the wire will decrease vibration. Also with that said, you would be able to use a colorado blade. There are a lot of variables here to consider, and a lot of testing can be done. My old boss had a resonance tester, and he used it to detect sound waves via vibration to check for welding stress cracks (Vodkaman you can correct me on this if I'm wrong). He said you can do something similar to this with blade vibration in water. All this testing was done at UL(Underwriters laboratories). I on the other hand don't have that kind of knowledge, just some real basics. Anyway the spinnerbait does work well in the water. The wire lines should be cleaner for mass production, and no fish were caught on this spinnerbait as of yet........Just something for me to think about as for now it is on the backburner. Edited May 23, 2009 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
now thats a fish Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Mr. Ted, Thanks for sharing the pic and ideas! I think one of the hardest things to accomplish would be to keep the top wire in the same plane (I guess it doesn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 @ cadman Thanks a lot for sharing picture and knowledge ,.........the pic just displays a kinda bait , that I imagined , how about it would look like:yes: ! greetz, diemai:yay: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Cadman note for your next post showing the wire you need to use a plain unpainted lead head. I keep looking at the paint job and not the wire! Good job on that one. One more idea you might consider just twisting the wire loop of the bottom blade. Help with the flexing or do you think it makes more vibration? On the color did you use a transparent color over another? Like a yellow with transparent brown over it. I think that is a beautiful paint job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psv Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Cadman note for your next post showing the wire you need to use a plain unpainted lead head. I keep looking at the paint job and not the wire! That is absolutely true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 I'm still very confused on these lures. I have been told that the convex surface must point down to the head. This makes sense if the blade rotates, as the aerodynamic effects will carry the blade around (air and water behave the same). But using a swivel for the lower blade does not control the attitude of the blade, it can turn. Members are using 'spin' when they perhaps mean 'wobble'. I have already asked the question, " does it rotate" and the answer was no. So, why does the convex surface need to point down? Maybe their is more than one type of lure going on here. You have to excuse me, I am just trying to understand what we are talking about. Lures of all types fascinate me, but you have to take me back to basics here. Some video's would be nice, showing what is expected. I get the feeling that I am not the only one confused on this issue. Once I understand what is supposed to happen, I promise not to get technical (liar). Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Cadman note for your next post showing the wire you need to use a plain unpainted lead head. I keep looking at the paint job and not the wire! Good job on that one. One more idea you might consider just twisting the wire loop of the bottom blade. Help with the flexing or do you think it makes more vibration? On the color did you use a transparent color over another? Like a yellow with transparent brown over it. I think that is a beautiful paint job. Cadman note for your next post showing the wire you need to use a plain unpainted lead head. I keep looking at the paint job and not the wire! That is absolutely true Kelly and PSV, I do not want to hi-jack this thread and take it off on a tangent. So I will e-mail you my colors of how I made that spinnerbait body. If anyone else is interested, PM me your e-mail and I will give you the info as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 I'm still very confused on these lures. I have been told that the convex surface must point down to the head. This makes sense if the blade rotates, as the aerodynamic effects will carry the blade around (air and water behave the same). But using a swivel for the lower blade does not control the attitude of the blade, it can turn.Members are using 'spin' when they perhaps mean 'wobble'. I have already asked the question, " does it rotate" and the answer was no. So, why does the convex surface need to point down? Maybe their is more than one type of lure going on here. You have to excuse me, I am just trying to understand what we are talking about. Lures of all types fascinate me, but you have to take me back to basics here. Some video's would be nice, showing what is expected. I get the feeling that I am not the only one confused on this issue. Once I understand what is supposed to happen, I promise not to get technical (liar). Dave Dave, This is the only way I can explain how this spinnerbait works. Let Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Many thanks, it is all clear to me now. Good explanation. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Had this idea for this thread and just got around to it. I had to Tweak it a little from what you see here .. With a longer Arm it can be made to run perfect. I am not a big Willow Leaf or double spinner bait person, but this will work 2 beads and 2 Leader Sleeves. JSC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTDuckman Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 I have read this thread a couple of times to make sure I am reading it right and am still confused. The front/top blade should spin on the shaft in my opinion. Maybe I am missing something. Respectfully Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 I have read this thread a couple of times to make sure I am reading it right and am still confused. The front/top blade should spin on the shaft in my opinion. Maybe I am missing something.Respectfully Tim Tim, The top blade spins(rotates) on the ball bearing when the lure is retrieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTDuckman Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Ted, I am referring to the discussion prior to the posting of your bait with the double ball bearing swivels (nice looking bait by the way). The original poster put up a picture of one of Bassdozer's spinnerbaits and stated that he is making a standard bait like that and can't get the top blade to rotate on the shaft, to which there was a lengthy discussion that it wouldn't spin on the shaft. That is what I am confused about. Thank you, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Ted,I am referring to the discussion prior to the posting of your bait with the double ball bearing swivels (nice looking bait by the way). The original poster put up a picture of one of Bassdozer's spinnerbaits and stated that he is making a standard bait like that and can't get the top blade to rotate on the shaft, to which there was a lengthy discussion that it wouldn't spin on the shaft. That is what I am confused about. Thank you, Tim Tim, I am referring to post #4 as well. I am also referring to the silver blade in that post also. That blade has a ball bearing attached to it. The silver blade will spin, horizontally on the bearing when the spinnerbait is retrieved. The word (shaft, wire) is used here, and nothing actually spins or rotates "on the shaft of the spinnerbait or wireform". The silver blade spins on the ball bearing swivel, and the the brass blade in that pic rocks on the clevis, when both are retrieved in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTDuckman Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 We are referring to the same blade, the brass/gold, top blade on a clevis. That clevis and blade will/should rotate 360 degrees around that shaft. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 We are referring to the same blade, the brass/gold, top blade on a clevis. That clevis and blade will/should rotate 360 degrees around that shaft. Tim Tim you may be right, I just don't understand how a blade can spin, around a shaft, when the lure is being reeled in and the force of the water is pushing everything back. This can happen when the lure first hits the water on a slack line and is falling in the water column. I am going to the pond today to try this out.:?I will give my report later today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 We are referring to the same blade, the brass/gold, top blade on a clevis. That clevis and blade will/should rotate 360 degrees around that shaft. Tim The Blade on the "Shaft" Should spin But .... Only if it is"Small " enough ... in this case the Willow is long enough Not to, due to the "Tight" Spin of the Willow ... The best to spin on the "Shaft" is a small Colorado Blade (small in relationship to all variables) JSC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 I think I can clarify what is actually meant, the main blade, which is the one on the end of the bait which is attached to a swivel, SPINS. The bottom blade, which is usually smaller and attached to the wire by a clevis, ROTATES. The main blade spins on the swivel the same way the earth spins, while the smaller bottom blade on the clevis rotates around the shaft the same way the earth rotates around the sun. Cadman is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 I think I can clarify what is actually meant, the main blade, which is the one on the end of the bait which is attached to a swivel, SPINS. The bottom blade, which is usually smaller and attached to the wire by a clevis, ROTATES. The main blade spins on the swivel the same way the earth spins, while the smaller bottom blade on the clevis rotates around the shaft the same way the earth rotates around the sun. Cadman is right. Smalljaw, that is exactly what I tried to explain, and didn't do a very good job of it. Tim, when I re-read your post, it look like you are saying the same thing as smalljaw. I would like to apologize to anyone who was confused by what I was trying to say. The picture I posted should have been another thread to avoid this mass of confusion. Smalljaws answer should resolve the question on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzer Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 The problem i feel is that the wire needs to be bent down towards the hook and skirt! Some times the wire that is pre formed is not bent to the exact shape to run correct. I make spinnerbaits and buzzbaits and i always bend the wire form down just a little. The small blade will start spinning as soon as this is done. Even out on the lake this should be done from time to time. www.buzzerbaits.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROWINGADUBAY Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 If you go to do-it molds web sight click on any of the spinnerbait molds you'll find a link to a page that tells you how to make gargoyle spinners wich will get both spinners to spin on the ball bearing swivels I guess they are a bit more weedless than other types but i do believe if you bend the wire back it will also work.I believe it might also rotate if you switch to a rounder blade but that might change the way your hook sits when retrieved you have to think of it as a lever with your line tie as the fulcrum if your blade pull to much you might have to bend your hook up a bit a compensate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
