ROWINGADUBAY Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I made a mold out of pop for a swim bait its an older bass pro squirmin shad they don't make any more with a paddle tail but the tails wont fill out the plastic just stops before the paddle do you guys have any advice to fix this? can I preheat the mold or should i just make one out of rtv silicone ? If I make a new one from silicone will I still have the same problem or do you think I should try an injector. If I go the injector route I would like to try a less expensive one. Suggestions please!!!! Thanks George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Just vent the bottom tail section better. there should be no reason that bait doesnt pour in a pop or rtv mold. more than likely your trapping air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senkosam Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 A vent won't help if you have a two part mold that has a thin tail attached to the club tail end. The plastic cools and clots the cavity. Pop mold suck for shads because the thin part rips when trying to lift out the clubtail from the much deeper and wider cavity. A one pc. silicone mold like the one LC sells is your best bet. You can open the mold to spread the cavity by bending the sides away from the cavity and finish pouring the club. Do the same to release the lure. I still coat my cavities with oil for better release and a shinier lure surface. A 2-pc POP swimbait mold with club tail is never a problem because the connection is thicker and everything fills in good. The vent idea is a good one for this mold. My first aluminum mold from Bear (a Wacky Worm design) is the first mold I've ever used with a tail vent and deep sprue. Never a bubble near the pour hole and a perfect bait every time. That tells me what I've been doing wrong when making long bait 2-part POP molds and that aluminum molds without the deep sprue and vent no longer cut it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJS Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Yeah, you need a vent at the very end of the lure cavity to let the trapped air out. Use a hack saw blade to cut a vent slot at the tail end of the lure cavity. You only need to cut a very shallow vent in one side of the mold. See pic of the mold I made from PoP. (4" Bass Assassin Paddletail) If I can get enough plastic to flow thru the narrow section to completely fill out the tail... then you can too. And yeah, I do like to preheat the pictured mold in the oven to about 160F-170F... almost too hot to hold in bare hands. That seems to help plastic get past the narrow section before it starts to get too hard to flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senkosam Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) The pictures show a long thin attachment attached to a thin body of two of the same style shads. Unless the plastic is heated to 375 and the mold is pre-heated and the tail is vented, you won't get enough flow through a POP mold to fill the tail. Maybe aluminum, but not POP. Both shads are different than the shad shown in the previous post. They are even different than the Mr. Twister Sassy Shad. I like the idea of hacksawing a vent. Think I'll do it for Del's molds which always have bubbles at the top of every lure and will need to drill a hole into a thimble and hold it with pliars over the pour spout while pouring to kill the upper plastic contraction. Vent and thimble -- thanks for the ideas! Save yourself some time, get LC's silicone shad molds for less than 20 bucks. Edited May 30, 2009 by Senkosam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 ""need to drill a hole into a thimble and hold it with pliars over the pour spout while pouring to kill the upper plastic contraction. Vent and thimble -- thanks for the ideas! Senkosam"" Hi Senko I must be a little "Slow" but clear up the "Thimble" part of this. Thanx in advance. JSC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senkosam Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) Note the deeper sprue in Bear molds. Note the long air bubble in the stick that had a shallow sprue and no vent; and the stick that benefited from the deep sprue and vent. The deep sprue/ vented mold pours perfect every time with no dents or air cavities. Even laminates were easier too pour. The thimble may work like the deep sprue and save time having to repour the top quarter after I cut off the bubble cavity. I will drill a vent hole into one cavity and see if it helps. Bob's molds suffers from the same problem and I think he will be open to modifying his design. Edited May 30, 2009 by Senkosam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbug Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Note the deeper sprue in Bear molds.Note the long air bubble in the stick that had a shallow sprue and no vent; and the stick that benefited from the deep sprue and vent. The deep sprue/ vented mold pours perfect every time with no dents or air cavities. I am sure the whole mold making process for baits is a dynamic learning process. I am certainly not a pro, but I just added up the plastic I have purchased and poured and it is over 19 gallons of plastic over the the last 3 to 4 years. I have poured aluminum, POP, DWP, silicon, and resin molds and I convinced that deeper spruce hole reservoirs and tail vents and other vents make better baits 100%. I wish all molds had deeper sprue hole reservoirs and more vents. This of course differs with free flowing and injection molds. Thanks for your input Senkosam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSC Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Thanx SS Let us know how it turns out JSC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) Note the deeper sprue in Bear molds.Note the long air bubble in the stick that had a shallow sprue and no vent; and the stick that benefited from the deep sprue and vent. The deep sprue/ vented mold pours perfect every time with no dents or air cavities. Even laminates were easier too pour. The thimble may work like the deep sprue and save time having to repour the top quarter after I cut off the bubble cavity. I will drill a vent hole into one cavity and see if it helps. Bob's molds suffers from the same problem and I think he will be open to modifying his design. Frank First off thats not my mold, I dont have a screw in the center of them, but nice try anyway Pop and rtv will pour thnner areas than an alum mold, no if's an's or buts about it. its due to the surface heat that is retained by pop and RTV and a few other factors. RTV is by far the best to pour very thin appendages. then comes pop then alum. I started vent holes and bigger spruce's 4-5 years ago? you have a very old mold and at which time you never had any problems with it ,you must be getting rusty . in both this forum and my website there was ways to make them pour better and faster by taking a hack saw and cutting a vent hole in the bottom. On alum molds very big spruce cause lots of problems , if your pouring from a pot its no problem as your steadier if your pourig by hand your not as steady so you hit the side and clog the hole then nothing with help. We still get guys that want them the old way like you have ( just with a small chamfer).becuase its easier for them to pour. Dents on the side of the baits on alum molds are not the result of a bigger or smaller spruce. a bubble in the bait is not the results of a bigger or smaller spruce either. while it helps so you dont have to top them off, it also hinders those who dont have a steady hand and causes more problem with bubbles at the top.. and to top it off NOT ALL MOLDS will work with a spruce of any sort or size. Delw Edited May 30, 2009 by Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senkosam Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Always my pleasure to compare notes! I'll tell you how it works out. Glad I don't have a closed mind and can adapt when ideas present themselves. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) Always my pleasure to compare notes! I'll tell you how it works out.Glad I don't have a closed mind and can adapt when ideas present themselves. Frank The spruce idea started about 4-5 years ago from one of my customers ER Gray on a buzz frog mold, it was alot of playing and testing back and forth, like most people would think( including myself) I applied it to some other molds thinking if it worked for one should work for others I ended up with bad results. the same one that works for one mold doesnt work for another is what we found. so we had to adjust the spruce to each particular mold and application. the problem is that every one pours differently, using differnt plastics, additives temperatures, lee pots presto pots pyrex pouring cups etc etc. while a diamond tail and stik are the same( as far as a straight worm) they wont pour the same with the same spruce hole. Delw Edited May 30, 2009 by Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear21211 Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 I agree all of the molds do not work the same. We adjust the sprues to fit the mold but I do not want to have to top off a mold if not needed. The one mold that puzzles me is this one. It has one sprue hole and was designed to use with our injector. This thing pours a perfect bait 99% of the time with no dents and no bubbles. Now It will NOT pour with Heavy Salt but 1/3 cup to 1 cup of plastic it works great. This mold goes against everything we have been doing. You can pour it with a presto pot with valve fully opened. The plastic runs down aluminum from start to finish and the mold will pour stone cold or hot as a fire cracker. If we could just get all of them to work this way life would be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 The one mold that puzzles me is this one. It has one sprue hole and was designed to use with our injector. This thing pours a perfect bait 99% of the time with no dents and no bubbles. Now It will NOT pour with Heavy Salt but 1/3 cup to 1 cup of plastic it works great. This mold goes against everything we have been doing. You can pour it with a presto pot with valve fully opened. The plastic runs down aluminum from start to finish and the mold will pour stone cold or hot as a fire cracker. The reason it works like that is due to gravity, for example you have a preston sitting above the mold, with lets say 1 gal of plastic in it 1 gallon is roughly 8lbs so you have the weight pushing down plastic down, the nozzle from the preston pot would have to be stuck in the mold so the plastic doesnt over flow. the mold would have to be warm to hot and the plastic would have to be extreamly hot and thin. not med and hard plastics more than likely wouldnt work due to the charactoristics of those plastics ( ie they are thicker then a very soft plastic) salt actually holds heat in plastic so it helps keep the plastic hot, the reason heavy salt wont work is due to the plastic being thicker and being restricted through the small opening to the bait cavities. 1/3 cup of salt is pretty sclose to heavy salt, would work eter with 1/4 or less cup of salt to 1 cup of plastic. it wouldn't work for someone hand pouring out of a pyrex as there is no weight to help push the plastic into the openings, probably wouldnt work on a lee pot either as there is no weight( they don't hold as much plastic). a full presto pot would be best and as the plastic gets lower in the pot you have less weight making it even more difficult. if the hole was opened up between the bait and the long slot basicallythedia of the bait it would have no problems pouring heavy salt, its just being restricted as to why ist wont pour it now, however it still would only work with a presto pot and the nozzle in it and plastic in it and not work with someone pouring from a cup. if the presto pot has the nozzle not in the mold it will back up and spill because the weight isnt forcing the plastic directly into the cavities. Vodkaman could explain it better in tech terms cause he is an engineer and knows that stuff. Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear21211 Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Well I understand what you are saying but the problem is it will pour with a pyrex cup also. You do not have to put the nozzle into the sprue at all. It will pour as any hand pour mold will . The mold does not have to be hot and it will pour with Calhoun medium also. I have not tried it with the tube plastic I think that would be pushing it. Here is a video done by one of our members showing how it works. StickPour.flv video by bkeenom - Photobucket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 the video made better sence, the picture you posted(just due to camera angle and lighting) makes it looks like a restriction in between the spruce and the bait, when in fact its just an optical illusion as the video shows the bait being pretty close to the same dia. Ie no restriction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear21211 Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Actually Del there is a big restriction almost 35% . That is how the sprues just pull off. Kind of like the way a plastic model car kit comes where the plastic is big then small and you break the pieces off. Like I said I do not know why it works as it makes everything we have been told about pouring 2 piece molds in the past become some what not correct. You can pour it fast, you do not have to hit the center of the mold and it does not matter if the mold is hot or cold. Maybe this is just one design that works this way. May never happen again but this one works. And please do not take this wrong I am not knocking any body's molds or trying to make this one superior by any means. It just makes me scratch my head every time I pour this mold to as why it will work like this and so many others will not.You are way more experienced than I will ever be and my hats off to you for bringing this hobby to the point it is now. The only reason I posted in this thread is because this mold baffles me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 I watched the vid again, I gotta go try this, I have a few scap 4 and 5 inch molds with something similar for a customer that we made years ago but for injection. Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 your not nitpicking you talk like an adult unlike someone else in this thread that likes to complain about everything and only comes to tu when he can get a jab or 2 in a 6-10 inch I dont see a problem as the dia are much bigger, but a 4-5 has me baffled a 35% smaller hole isnt bad as it would still be a 1/4" diam hole on a 4-5 inch stik bait. from the pics it looked like a 3/32 hole or smaller what most use for low pressure injection. we have made them before with a big tub so to speak for customers basically a half circle the length of the molds and just pour into them, works fine for most if the plastic is hot. Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROWINGADUBAY Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Thanks for all your advice I tried it again with the vents cut in but it still did'nt work I did try a couple with a cheap turkey baster and that did fill the tails out but it clogged I think I'll search the site before asking a bunch of injector questions thanks a bunch.. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitbull Baits Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 The reason it works like that is due to gravity, for example you have a preston sitting above the mold, with lets say 1 gal of plastic in it 1 gallon is roughly 8lbs so you have the weight pushing down plastic down, the nozzle from the preston pot would have to be stuck in the mold so the plastic doesnt over flow.the mold would have to be warm to hot and the plastic would have to be extreamly hot and thin. not med and hard plastics more than likely wouldnt work due to the charactoristics of those plastics ( ie they are thicker then a very soft plastic) salt actually holds heat in plastic so it helps keep the plastic hot, the reason heavy salt wont work is due to the plastic being thicker and being restricted through the small opening to the bait cavities. 1/3 cup of salt is pretty sclose to heavy salt, would work eter with 1/4 or less cup of salt to 1 cup of plastic. it wouldn't work for someone hand pouring out of a pyrex as there is no weight to help push the plastic into the openings, probably wouldnt work on a lee pot either as there is no weight( they don't hold as much plastic). a full presto pot would be best and as the plastic gets lower in the pot you have less weight making it even more difficult. if the hole was opened up between the bait and the long slot basicallythedia of the bait it would have no problems pouring heavy salt, its just being restricted as to why ist wont pour it now, however it still would only work with a presto pot and the nozzle in it and plastic in it and not work with someone pouring from a cup. if the presto pot has the nozzle not in the mold it will back up and spill because the weight isnt forcing the plastic directly into the cavities. Vodkaman could explain it better in tech terms cause he is an engineer and knows that stuff. Delw It does work with a pyrex cup. I had to pour a small order for a guy quick so I poured it with a pyrex cup and they all came out all twenty of them. They were all cold molds it was almost quicker than with my pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
