AZEK question.....

[68KingFisher]

I was visiting with a neighbor a block down the road who's doing alot of the after tornado remoldeling like the rest of us, and I noticed they were putting a new deck on his front porch....when I looked closer I realized they were using the AZEK stuff you guys are always talking about.....So I said "Hey....Ya'll got any scraps"?.....The builder say's "Nutin very big, but check the dumpster out by the street".....So I stuck my head over the top of the dumpster to find a butt load of scraps....so I start grabbing myself an big stack only to realize that "Dang...this stuff is heavy"....LOL.....I told them i'd get my wellbarrow and come back down tommorrow and get some more.

What I got was all brown in color....measures about a bit over 1" thick and about 5.5" wide....most of the scraps were 16-18" long.......Was this a good find??.....Should I scavange as much as I can?

[68KingFisher]

After dinner I decided to go back and get the rest....Just couldn't stand the thought of good material gettin away from me....lol......I ended up with probably 50 or so pieces in the 16" to 24" range.....if this is the same stuff as what ya'll are using then i'm set for awhile.....Man that stuff sure is heavy for something thats suppose to float...lol....but it seems to carve easily with a knife....wish I could figure out whats wrong with my dremel so I could do a little shaping....guess its time for a new one.

While i was dumpster diving, I found a couple of pieces of red cedar one by fours so I snagged those also.....You guys have been talking about free sources of wood....neighborhood construction sites might be just the ticket....lol

Edited August 19, 2009 by 68KingFisher

[atrophius]

Nice find and great idea!

[mark poulson]

That looks like the same stuff I use. Put a piece in a tub of water to see if it floats.

Mine is about as buoyant as Poplar.

If it's the same stuff, you scored. You can make a ton of lures from that stash, and they will all be waterproof from the start. So, no sealing, no finish failure due to water intrusion, and the material is hard enough that it doesn't dent easily.

The newer version has a coarser mix, so I do a couple of dips in Minwax Polyacrylic after I've finished shaping and sanding, to fill some of the surface divots. Three dips, two hours apart, usually do the trick for me.

It carves,drill, and cuts well, but the sanding and saw dust are murder on my sinuses, so I wear a dust mask whenever I machine it. Even when I hand sand.

Good for you!

[68KingFisher]

That looks like the same stuff I use. Put a piece in a tub of water to see if it floats.

Mine is about as buoyant as Poplar.

If it's the same stuff, you scored. You can make a ton of lures from that stash, and they will all be waterproof from the start. So, no sealing, no finish failure due to water intrusion, and the material is hard enough that it doesn't dent easily.

The newer version has a coarser mix, so I do a couple of dips in Minwax Polyacrylic after I've finished shaping and sanding, to fill some of the surface divots. Three dips, two hours apart, usually do the trick for me.

It carves,drill, and cuts well, but the sanding and saw dust are murder on my sinuses, so I wear a dust mask whenever I machine it. Even when I hand sand.

Good for you!

Well, you got my curiosity up, so I ran some water in the tub and sure enough it floats....not on top like a bobber, but just below the waterline....but it floats.....I'm guessing a crankbait sized peice will float better??

Thanks for the heads up on the sawdust.....I'm terrible about not wearing a resperator when I sand or airbrush for that matter....but then again look at my paintbooth....hehehe...don't need a mask unless i'm shootin clear with the big gun.

Now should I use screw in hook eye's or does this stuff need a wire thru design?

[KcDano]

If it suspends below the surface, might sink when hooks, diving plane and paint are added. Unless the finish applied during manufacturing is adding significant weight to the material. which will be removed while shaping,

[mark poulson]

The finished faces are just the same material, embossed with hot rollers that melt the pvc and embed the wood pattern and slick sides and backside.

I'd cut out a crankbait-sized rectangle, with the finished surfaces removed, add screw eyes (it holds them fine, just use a small pilot hole) and trebles, a see if it floats okay.

[atrophius]

The finished lures might float better, I am not good at calculating water displacement of a board or any boat.

[68KingFisher]

I'd cut out a crankbait-sized rectangle, with the finished surfaces removed.

How should I go about removing those surfaces....sand them down or can I run them thru my neighbors planer?......I gave him a piece to try, but I don't want him to damage his equipment just so I can make a couple of lures.

[mark poulson]

If you have access to a surface planer, and the pieces are at least 12" long, that's the way to go. It won't hurt the cutters at all.

For smaller stuff, you can use a table saw with fence, or a bench top belt sander.

[68KingFisher]

Update:.....I found a tag on the end of one of the boards and instead of being AZEK as I thought, the brand name is Trex...."Trex Accents" to be exact.....I'm assuming that all these man made decking boards are made of about the same materials?....I hate assuming....Their website does make mention of its natural wood content, so it must have some sawdust mixed in with the pvc....lol

[BobP]

Yes, decking like Trex contains plastic and wood but I don't know if it's expanded PVC. I resurfaced my porch with a Trex-like product and it seemed heavier than pressure treated pine so I don't think it's expanded, in which case buoyancy would be a big ??. The white expanded PVC board is used mostly for exterior house trim, which is a non-traffic, light duty application.

Edited August 21, 2009 by BobP

[68KingFisher]

Well, I suppose that changes things abit......Guess i'll just wing it and see what happens.....the stuff does seem awfull heavy but it does float....I cut up a piece on the table saw this evening into some smaller blocks....my neighbor has already told me to use his tabletop bandsaw anytime I want so i'm gonna rough out a few shapes to play with...My dremel died and i'm too broke to buy another one right now so i'm just gonna whittle from that point on....That or I could break out the pneumatic diegrinder and a good grinding stone....lol.....i'll keep ya'll posted.....thanks for everyones input.

[diemai]

@ 68KingFisher

Concerning your "Dremel"(I have had some issues with them as well and have already wrecked two or three) , .......have you checked the carbon contacts at either side ?

There are screw caps on either side of its casing , unscrew these to access these spring-loaded contacts , you can buy spare and replace them , if they are rubbed down .

They might also be smeared with dirt , giving them a clean-up with some fine sandpaper/alcohol might help as well , ........also the round copper contact drum on the main shaft , where the carbon contacts do engage .

Also had problems with the internal contacts of the on/off switch/speed control , might try to clean these as well or CAREFULLY bend them towards one another(very finacky) , as they probably might have bent apart under constant use .

It is not that hard to disassemble the "Dremel" and put it together again , if you watch your steps and study the fittings of the few single parts . PLUG OUT BEFORE !

No guarantee to get it running again , but well worth a try before having to buy a new one:wink: .

Sorry for a little off-topic !

good luck , diemai:yay:

Edited August 21, 2009 by diemai
text addition

[mark poulson]

68KingFisher,

Trex is not AZEK. Trex weighs a lot more than AZEK, and doesn't float the same.

Before you invest time and effort in making a lure, test float a small piece with the hardware attached. If it just barely floats, suspends, or slow sinks, it'll be really hard to tune and balance as a crank, so I don't think it's worth fooling with.

The reason I use AZEK is because it is buoyant, and was recommended to me by another lure maker here, JR Hopkins.

[68KingFisher]

@ 68KingFisher

Concerning your "Dremel"(I have had some issues with them as well and have already wrecked two or three) , .......have you checked the carbon contacts at either side ?

There are screw caps on either side of its casing , unscrew these to access these spring-loaded contacts , you can buy spare and replace them , if they are rubbed down .

They might also be smeared with dirt , giving them a clean-up with some fine sandpaper/alcohol might help as well , ........also the round copper contact drum on the main shaft , where the carbon contacts do engage .

Also had problems with the internal contacts of the on/off switch/speed control , might try to clean these as well or CAREFULLY bend them towards one another(very finacky) , as they probably might have bent apart under constant use .

It is not that hard to disassemble the "Dremel" and put it together again , if you watch your steps and study the fittings of the few single parts . PLUG OUT BEFORE !

No guarantee to get it running again , but well worth a try before having to buy a new one:wink: .

Sorry for a little off-topic !

good luck , diemai:yay:

I'm an old service tech, so taking my Dremel apart is no problem.....I already checked all the obvious stuff like bad brushes and loose wires, but still no go....it was a well used Dremel when I got it, and I guess its time to replace it.....thanks for your input.

But that does bring up a question.....Do you most of you shape your lures with a rotory tool like a dremel or do you step up to a bigger unit like the wood carver guys use....the kind that the motor hangs and a cable runs down to a small pencil sized carving tool that would seem easier to hang on to and handle??....anyone use those or is Dremel the tool of choice?

Thanks for the info Mark....i'll run some tests on a small chunk of the Trex before I invest too much time into making several baits....i'll let ya'll know how it does.

[diemai]

@ 68KingFisher

A bit embarrassing to me to have advised someone like you about power tool maintainance:o:o:o , .....but I did not know before:huh: !

I use my "Dremel" most likely with a coarse sanding drum(the bigger one available) to round off back and belly of my lures .

The tail and nose tapers(viewed from top)I'd furnish previously on a 5" coarse sanding disc , chucked into my lathe's motor .

The fine sanding I do with a sandpaper file and finally just by hand sanding .

I haven't yet carved details like gillplates , etc. , onto my lures that much ,.... the few ones , that I made , I also did with the "Dremel" and small router bits ,......also shaped the pre-drilled cavities of a few aluminium lead casting molds like this .

But I guess , that the hanging motor with a transmitting cable would be better suited for finacky carving work , as it would surely be easier to guide the handle portion of that cable rather than the entire "Dremel" unit .

Some guys on a German site(and elsewhere too , off course) , building a lot of flat-bodied gliders , utilize table routers to round off backs and bellies of their lures .....if all settings are well , this work operation comes like a breeze .

greetz , diemai:yay:

[Vodkaman]

I have a battery dremel that I used to use for shaping, but I would have to re-charge after one body.

I now use a belt sander with a coarse grit. Love it.

As for the Azek, it would be interesting to know the actual density, so you could compare with other woods. If you have a gram scale, this is easy and quick to do.

Measure the length, width and thickness in centimeters of a rectangular sample. Multiply the three numbers together, this gives the volume. Weigh the sample in grams. Divide the weight by the volume. This gives the density in gm/cm3 were water = 1.00

Dave

[BobP]

I use a Dremel for shaping/sanding, drilling holes, sanding lips, you name it. I keep 2 so have a hot spare. The main problem with the basic 2 speed or variable speed Dremels with mechanical switches is wood dust gets inside and gums everything up over time. I haven't tried any of the higher end Dremels with electronic switches. You eventually become a Dremel service tech. They are simple, no internal "gotchas", and you can usually fix them easily. 90% of service is blowing out the dust, maybe replacing the motor brushes, and oiling the shaft bearings. Dremel has long 3-5 yr warranties and super good service. Send yours in and a replacement usually arrives the same week.

I recently got a Foredom SR rotary tool. It's the hang up style tool, more powerful than a Dremel and can take bits with up to 1/4" shanks (Dremel is max 1/8"), has a foot control. I wanted the Foredom's larger diameter sanding drum because the little Dremel drums tend to dig in if you hit soft grain while rounding over baits. The Foredom is a nice tool, I just haven't gotten used to it, compared to 10+ yrs with a Dremel in my hand. I don't think the Foredom does anything better but it's more powerful. But lets face it, when you're hand shaping a 2" piece of wood, you aren't going to need lots of power because you better be using a light touch!

[68KingFisher]

As for the Azek, it would be interesting to know the actual density, so you could compare with other woods.

Dave

I don't know about the Azek, but I found this info on the Trex website.......

(Trex weighs about 50-70% heavier than comparable lumber sections with a specific

gravity of about 0.96.)

[KcDano]

I think you can forget about using trex for a plug, unless you want a sinker.

[68KingFisher]

I think you can forget about using trex for a plug, unless you want a sinker.

Well crap.....thats not what I want hear....dangit.....I went dumpster diving for nuthin!...i'm still gonna throw some hardware on a small chunk just to see what it does in the water.

[68KingFisher]

I think you can forget about using trex for a plug, unless you want a sinker.

Yep....thats exactly what happened.....I rough cut a lure shape this evening and dropped it into a bowl of water....it floated just below the surface the same as a large chunk did.....I screwed in three screw eye's and hung two split rings and treble hooks and dropped it back into the water only to watch it sink like a rock......I started removing hardware only to find that even the weight of one screw eye was enough to make it sink.....So much for using Trex.....guess i'll find another use for these scraps or just run them back down to the dumpster I got them from.

Darn, I thought I was set for materials for awhile....easy come....easy go.

Update:...the wife just walked into the kitchen and yells, "why is there poop floating in this bowl"?.....lol....I yelled back,"Its not poop, but it is a turd".....lol.

Edited August 22, 2009 by 68KingFisher

[hazmail]

K/F - DON'T THROW IT AWAY--- with a Forstner bit, drill a vertical hole in the top as deep as you think, then cap it off with something - maybe stuff some tissue in and cap with bog?? this extra air should give you some buoyancy where you want it (opposite to lead ballasting) - I'm finding sometimes it's as good to have neutral timber as it is to have heaps of buoyancy (Balsa), for me this is especially true in 'swim baits'.pete

[Vodkaman]

Once again, Pete climbs out of his box for a spot of thinking. Nice one Pete.

Dave