VANNDALIZER Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 NAPA parts sroe has heat shrink tubing up to 2" or maybe bigger. Tubing works great for doing a few baits but if your going to do production using plastic like milk jugs vaccume formed and then mounted on a clamp is much faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 NAPA parts sroe has heat shrink tubing up to 2" or maybe bigger. Tubing works great for doing a few baits but if your going to do production using plastic like milk jugs vaccume formed and then mounted on a clamp is much faster. Well it sure sounds like a very good idea, keep us informed on how it works out.I might want to try that out too! Grtz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 I finally got everything together and made the first attempt at making a stencil using the vacuum forming table we built. The vacuum table seems to be working fine. The shop vac is only 1 1/2 HP, but so far has not shown any problems in pulling the heated plastic down around the mold. The plastic I'm using is a high impact acrylic. I decided on this particular plastic because it was clear and that would help in laying out the lateral lines, gill plates, etc. There are still a few bugs to work out in the way the plastic is held while heating prior to forming. A way to hold the four sides of the plastic blank while preheating is going to have to be worked out as the plastic tends to curl up as the heat is being applied. When I work the bugs out I will post pics of the process. RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 great! lots of good stuff on the tube: watch this: Grtz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoopa Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 use that clear heat shink tubing and its amazing, i love that stuff:yeah: Thanks, Jacob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Hey Jeep, Great video. Never thought about looking on you-tube. That's essentially what I did. I finally fastened the plastic like the guy in the video and it worked great. There wasn't a single wrinkle in the stencil. I did have to work the edges with the edge of a smooth butter knife to get them to conform tightly, especially around the diving lip. All in all, it works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Here's a couple pics of the stencils made using the vacuum former. Haven't made the cutouts in them yet. Hated to take a chance on messing the stencils up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Great result, very professional. This project would make a great tutorial, from start to finish (hint, lol). Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettAC23 Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Thats awsome! How did you get the 2 halves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 The two halves were made by using the vacuum forming process. There are mainly two types of bait that I paint more than any other. These are Norman DD-22's and Deep Little N's. Using a Dremel tool I cut these baits in half lengthwise to use as molds. You just lay these halves on top of the vacuum table and suck the heated plastic down around them to form the stencil. At some point in the very near future I will have to make molds out of something like Bondo that will hold up better to the heated plastic while it is being formed on the vacuum table. The plastic I used is called PETG. It is a clear, high impact acryllic. The thickness being used is .030". It seems to be quite strong without being brittle after forming. The .030" sheet was thin enough to be formed easily while still being thick enough to remain rigid. The vacuum table is just a box made out of plywood with a connector that a shop vac can be attached to. The plastic was shipped to me in a 4' by 8' sheet. I cut this into smaller pieces that would fit onto the vacuum table. A separate frame was built to hold the blank pieces while being heated under the broiler in the oven. This is very important for if the sides of the plastic blank are not held in place while being heated they will curl up and warp while being heated. Below is a link to a web page that Hazmail sent me. It has pretty much everything you need to know on how to build a vacuum forming table as well as forming the plastic. Anything that it doesn't answer just holler and I will try to help. Vacuum Forming Plastic Pinball and Coin-Op Game Parts, Water Slide Decals RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Rayburnguy, probably a difficult question to answer, but how tight around the pattern can the frame be (distance from the edge of the mold to edge of the frame)? This question is based on economy, also, if multiple molds could be used in one frame, distance between molds. I am just looking for an honest opinion, as you are up and running with your setup. If your opinion is wrong, I will not get upset, promise! I bet a formula exists for this, I know a formula is used for designing pressed steel parts. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 That's a tough one to answer Vodkaman. As far as a "formula" I wouldn't have the slightest idea as to how you would compute ease of molding versus waste of material. I have only molded one bait at a time so far as I was trying to get familiar with the process. I was more worried about ease of use and quality of the finished mold. In my opinion you need to leave enough clearance between the frame that holds the heated plastic and the edges of the vacuum table to ensure it not getting hung up while you are placing the frame onto it. I did figure this out. If you only want to mold one or two stencils, and your table is large enough to hold 10 or more at one time, you can go ahead and make those two stencils and cut them out of the plastic sheet. This leaves you with a section gone and no plastic to cover the suction holes on that area of your vacuum table. This is not a problem. I just took blue painters tape (any tape would probably work) and covered the holes on the table where the cutout in the plastic was missing. The tape seals the suction holes thus maintaing your vacuum. All you have to do is reheat the plastic in the frame and your ready for another pull. The distance between the molds is another subject that is somewhat subjective. You need to remember one thing when deciding this. You will need to leave a large enough border of plastic around your stencil that you can apply clamps. You might be able to use one side of the stencil at a time and paint only one side of the bait at a time, but I chose to be able to clamp the bait between the two stencils and paint them both at one time. That's why I chose to leave approximately a 3/4" to 1" border around the stencils to apply clamps to. If you were going to just paint one side at a time you could probably get away with a smaller border or distance between the molds while on the vacuum table. I'm just guessing here, but you could probably form a stencil with only a half inch or so between the molds. Not sure that I would try it that close, but I'm no expert. I'm actually building a different frame because I didn't like the first one. The next one will be built so that it will be a little larger that the vacuum table. This will allow the frame to slip down around the vacuum table and the weight of the frame will help hold the plastic in place while turning on the vacuum. Another thing you might have trouble with is after your stencil is made and you do your cutouts in it. When I cut the lateral line into my stencil it allowed the edges of the cut to spring out away from the bait a little. With the two halves clamped around the bait I wanted to paint I gently heated around the cutout until the plastic was warm and pliable. Then I just held it in place against the bait until it cooled. Remember, a little heat will go a long way. Especially on an edge of the plastic. Too much heat and it will warp like crazy. As soon as I get everything worked out I will be posting pictures of the process. Hope this has made some sense. Feel free to message me or post on this thread if I can be of any help. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Very good answer and information. What I had in mind was, after creating the first two halves, using these as molds for casting bondo/resin sub-masters. Then multiple forms could be vacuumed at one time. Instead of cutting a bait in half, I intend to press the lure in clay. Make a tool from a block of wood with a slot cut. Glue a box cutter blade in the slot at a slight angle for draft. The tool is slid around the flat plate to remove excess clay. This method would not give you the flange on your template though. Just food for thought. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 As the old saying goes, "There is more than one way to skin a cat". The procedure that I'm using is no way set in stone. What works for me might not be the best way for someone else. The best advice I can give you is try different things and see what works best for you. You could very possibly come up with a better way of doing this that would not only save material, but be easier as well. Keep me posted on how things go for you. RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Just wanted to say that this was an incredible thread and that I've been dissecting all the information on it for a few days now. I can't wait to build my own vacuum former! Thanks a bunch guys for putting in the hard work... AND SHARING! You guys rock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 A-Mac, I totally agree. I have my new shopvac and I'm ready to go. Just got a couple of other projects standing in the way first. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Haha! Yeah, I just bought a small shopvac tonight. Its a 1.75hp (which is more hp than my mercury w/ a blown powerhead is putting out!)... I don't imagine it will take much to make it all work. I'm planning on keeping mine probabbly 1'X1' to cut down on plastic (maybe smaller). I'm going to try the pegboard trick shown in the video... it just looked too easy. I'm picking my plastic up on monday. Bad thing is, I have to drive 1.5hrs to buy 2 2x4 sheets for $7 (planning on showing up when the store opens so I have the rest of the day to play!). Oww well, thats part of being addicted to this stuff. If everything works out well, I'll try to upload some pics. My goal is to have something like RayburnGuy. His stuff just came out amazing looking! So hard to settle for less than perfect on the first try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Ok. Mines built. I designed mine almost exactly like the you tube video... with the pegboard style top. I use thin foam to seal the solid board to the bottom and the peg board to the top... with the foam glued in place on the 2x4, i then screwed down the peg board and solid bottom board. I think this may have helped seal it better. Also, I used hot glue to seal the corners versus duct tape. However, I did use duct tape to cover up unnecessary holes on the peg board just in case I ever need a larger surface area. I used .020 pteg plastic sheeting... which was kind of hard to find. I traveled almost 1.5hrs to spend $7 on 2 2x4 sheets. Anyways, this is probably the coolest machine I've built for lure making. My stencils came out looking exactly like Rayburns. Its so cool... I wish the experience lasted more than a few seconds! The nice thing is, its very easy to do. Just watch the video. You will need a heat gun to touch it up, but that doesn't take much time. Actually, the hardest part was convincing my girlfriend to let me stick a 2x4 frame with plastic in the oven. The process is so fast, I was done before she could quite bi 'in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Ok. Mines built. I designed mine almost exactly like the you tube video... with the pegboard style top. I use thin foam to seal the solid board to the bottom and the peg board to the top... with the foam glued in place on the 2x4, i then screwed down the peg board and solid bottom board. I think this may have helped seal it better. Also, I used hot glue to seal the corners versus duct tape. However, I did use duct tape to cover up unnecessary holes on the peg board just in case I ever need a larger surface area. I used .020 pteg plastic sheeting... which was kind of hard to find. I traveled almost 1.5hrs to spend $7 on 2 2x4 sheets. Anyways, this is probably the coolest machine I've built for lure making. My stencils came out looking exactly like Rayburns. Its so cool... I wish the experience lasted more than a few seconds! The nice thing is, its very easy to do. Just watch the video. You will need a heat gun to touch it up, but that doesn't take much time. Actually, the hardest part was convincing my girlfriend to let me stick a 2x4 frame with plastic in the oven. The process is so fast, I was done before she could quite bi 'in. I hope you bought more than one sheet of plastic. It would suck to drive it again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Congrats A-Mac. Post a few pics, we all love pics here. Dave Edited November 4, 2009 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Congrats A-Mac. Post a few pics, we all love pics here. Dave will do. headin to the lake (530am here) for now. But yeah, I'll post some pics when I get back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHROMEDOG Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just a thought but, what do you guys think about using the vacuumed forms for the scaling stencil. This is what I am thinking... 1. Make the form or mold 2. Cut out the area to be covered by scales 3. Epoxy your mesh netting all around the plastic form (both sides) 4. Put together, around the blank, with the clamps or binder clips 5. Paint Anyone got any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHROMEDOG Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Also, for anyone interested, Dick Blick (art supply place) has the styrene sheets in different sizes at a decent price. The sheets are .05" and come in standard photo sizes: 5 x 7 8 x 10 9 x 12 etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Being a truck driver/salesman for pepsi I was wondering has anyone tried trimming a 2 liter bottle down and see if it would conform. I stack these all day long and today I started to looked at them in a different way.If this would work it would be easy and cheap material. I wonder if a milk jug would work also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 jamie i bet the 2 liter bottle would work great! I'm sure you could melt down the milk jug, but the 2 liter has the shape you need! You could basically have a nice rectangle if you cut the mid section out of the 2 liter... and staple this to a frame that I have shown in attachments. RECYCLING is fun! Chromedog, your idea sounds pretty interesting too! http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj100/amcalexa/PB050513.jpg http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj100/amcalexa/PB050518.jpg http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj100/amcalexa/PB050519.jpg http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj100/amcalexa/PB050520.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
