RayburnGuy Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 While ordering paint the other day I noticed a "retarder" for the Createx paint. Can someone tell me what it is and what it's used for. thanks guys, RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frchkn Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 It acts as a thinning agent, Helps reduce tip dry and improve paint flow.. I use water instead, a lot cheaper and just as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68KingFisher Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) I think its suppose to retard the drying time of whatever color you mix it with.....I've got a bottle, and for the life of me I could never figure out why I would want waterbased paints to have a slower drying time so I,ve never used the stuff....lol. Edited October 12, 2009 by 68KingFisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks guys. I wasn't sure, but I was thinking the same thing about slowing the drying time. Why use something to slow the drying time and then use a hair dryer to speed it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 RayburnGuy If you live where it's hot, or have trouble with paint drying in you air brush tip and causing spitting or other problem, the retarder makes sense. I don't think it slows the drying with a hair dryer, but I've never used it. Since Createx needs to be heat set, anyway, if the retarder prevents air brush problems, I'd try it. I'm thinking about trying it myself, now that you've pointed out it's available. 68KingFisher, If I had your air brush skills, I'd throw mine away! It's no wonder you don't need retarder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnie3035 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I use createx retarder. I mainly use it for the Wasco taxidermy paint. For me, its really hard to shoot that paint w/o some retarder. I will sometimes use it when I need to tape and spray fine details multiple times. I've found it keeps the paint from drying on the tip when the brush sits idle for a few minutes...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 gunnie3035, Does the retarder affect how quickly the paint dries once you've sprayed it and want to hit it with a hair dryer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Thanks guys. I appreciate the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnie3035 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I haven't noticed anything different with the createx drying time, but it will slow down the Wasco drying time if a thick coat is applied. But I generally add 2-3 drops of retarder to every eyedropper full of paint. This is probably overkill as I think Wasco recommends 2-3 drops per 2oz of paint, but I believe that suggestion was in reference to the Wasco brand retarder, not sure what the different is between the two. A 4oz bottle of retarder will last a long time...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parker085 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 It acts as a thinning agent, Helps reduce tip dry and improve paint flow.. I use water instead, a lot cheaper and just as good. Sorry i'm very new to this but its OK to thin my water base paint with water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frchkn Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Sorry i'm very new to this but its OK to thin my water base paint with water? Yes sir, I live in Norcal and it is well over 100 degrees in my garage often.. I always get tip dry from the heat and the time it takes to change colors.. Just add a few drops of water to thin the paint. Works like a charm. Do not add to much.. then the paint will run and possibly splatter.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68KingFisher Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 It acts as a thinning agent, Helps reduce tip dry and improve paint flow.. I use water instead, a lot cheaper and just as good. Water will act a thinner for waterbased acrylic paints, but it doesn't really help as a flow enhancer....for that you normally need an additive that will break down the surface tension of the water....for the lack of a better explaination I have often referred to those additives as "Making water wetter"....That will help with flow without over thinning with too much water which is easy to do.....I use a product called Flotrol which can be purchased at places like Ace hardware in their paint dept....its a flow additive thats intended to be used on acrylic house paint to help the paint flow out better so your brush marks will dissapear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parker085 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Thanks for the feedback, i'm sure i will make many many mistakes but with all the good information form everyone i'm hoping to cut back on the number of major mistakes i make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frchkn Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Water will act a thinner for waterbased acrylic paints, but it doesn't really help as a flow enhancer....for that you normally need an additive that will break down the surface tension of the water....for the lack of a better explaination I have often referred to those additives as "Making water wetter"....That will help with flow without over thinning with too much water which is easy to do.....I use a product called Flotrol which can be purchased at places like Ace hardware in their paint dept....its a flow additive thats intended to be used on acrylic house paint to help the paint flow out better so your brush marks will dissapear. hmm I mite give it a shot thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Flotrol sounds great. Years ago I used something called Penetrol to help oil based paints penetrate old wood and bond better, even when there was some old paint left on it. But I have a couple of questions. Does Flotrol affect how quickly the paint dries when you hit it with hair dryer? Does it thin the paint enough that you need additional coats? I was just wondering if it makes the painted surface more delicate, as in the paint moving around from the hair dryer's blown air. I try and keep my paint coats thin enough that they won't move under the air flow, and I set the dryer on low first, until the moisture flashs off, before I set it up on high and really heat set the paint. Water will act a thinner for waterbased acrylic paints, but it doesn't really help as a flow enhancer....for that you normally need an additive that will break down the surface tension of the water....for the lack of a better explaination I have often referred to those additives as "Making water wetter"....That will help with flow without over thinning with too much water which is easy to do.....I use a product called Flotrol which can be purchased at places like Ace hardware in their paint dept....its a flow additive thats intended to be used on acrylic house paint to help the paint flow out better so your brush marks will dissapear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) At the risk of being bashed by KF -----------the house painters here use retarder all summer in their w/b acrylic house paint, and I will bet my lefty that what they use in W/B is PVA glue. It looks like it, smells like it, and sticks like it, so mix a bit with a blob of water, then mix it with your paint and see what happens, I know it makes paint flow off a brush / roller like oil, and this is what you want when spraying, not a heap of microscopic dry hard bumps. I might have to get my microscope out and take some pictures***##@@@!!!. I'm solely here to save you money .pete Edited October 20, 2009 by hazmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 PETE.. IM GOING THE BASH YOU!!!! SO GET READY CAUSE IM ABOUT TO GO OFF! GOING TAKE IT TO YOU LIKE DONKEY KONG! I cant believe you actually take the time to walk over to the sink and put water in your paint... When all you really have to do is SPIT IN IT AND GO! If your going to save us money.. SAVE US ENERGY TOO! If my paint aint thin enough I SPIT IN IT! if that doesnt work turn up the TURN THE PSI UP HIGHER! "ITS A TACKLEUNDERGROUND HOMEMADE BAIT! TOO PURDY TO FISH, IF YOU WANT TO FISH WITH SOMETHING GO GET YOU ONE OF THEM THEIR SUCKY CRAFTERS BAITS" Mr. Moomojo Macromay THE ROOKIE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Rookie- sounds like a good idea but it has not rained here in 9 years, can't afford to spit.pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68KingFisher Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Flotrol sounds great. Years ago I used something called Penetrol to help oil based paints penetrate old wood and bond better, even when there was some old paint left on it. But I have a couple of questions. Does Flotrol affect how quickly the paint dries when you hit it with hair dryer? Does it thin the paint enough that you need additional coats? I was just wondering if it makes the painted surface more delicate, as in the paint moving around from the hair dryer's blown air. I try and keep my paint coats thin enough that they won't move under the air flow, and I set the dryer on low first, until the moisture flashs off, before I set it up on high and really heat set the paint. I still use Penetrol when pinstriping with OneShot sign enamels.....its good stuff. I can't say how the Flowtrol will act when hit with a hair dryer cause i've never done that.....I will say that I used alot of the stuff when I airbrushed a series of wall murals in a Mexican restaurant where my wife and daughter work. The largest mural was just over 21ft long by 6ft high.....I used a variety of waterbased acrylic paints for this project....from Createx, Aquaflow, Createx AutoAir, as well as some regular old latex wall paint....heck I even used some of the cheap acrylic paints found in the craft section of Walmart.....I sprayed everything thru my bottle fed Iwata Eclipse. When a peticular paint was too thick or gave me troubles flowing i'd reduce the paint with a 75/25 mixture of water/windshield washer fluid and Flowtrol...the amount of Flowtrol varied from paint to paint....its thicker then you'd expect and can even help add viscosity to a paint thats already too thin. The washer fluid has some kinda glycol product in it that also helps with flow and tip dry problems....some guys also use Fantastic cleaning solution or straight glycerin in their reducer mix.....Keep in mind that I was using these products on prepainted drywall and rolled on a clearcoat when I was done.....i'd be reluctant to use these homebrewed additives if I were going to apply a urethane clearcoat over the top....and I haven't a clue what it may or may not do under an epoxy finish....you'd just have to run a few tests to see if it caused any adhesion problems with D2T or DN....I have my doubts that it would, but I can't say for sure since I don't use them. Will it thin enough to need additional coats?......I think that would depend on how much your using, but yeah you can thin it down quite a bit and still keep it workable....I took a thick brown flat latex house paint and thinned it to the point that I could work in light layers and slowly build my artwork,but the paint was not so thin that I experienced any wet blowouts or problems with waiting for paint to dry....I spent almost a month on this project painting murals all day everyday, and the Flowtrol really pulled me outta the woods when a cheapo latex paint didn't want to spray very well thru my airbrush.....but painting wall murals ain't paintin lures, so I dunno....A bottle of it won't break the bank, and you might find a use for it....even if you just need to paint the house...lol. Pete, I would never bash anything you had to say......so speak up buddy.....Hearing about the glue doesn't surprise me a bit.....I've seen more then one airbrusher use Elmers white glue as an airbrush medium.....lots of old stories about that floating around airbrush forums...lol:lol: I've also seen house painters pee into 5gal paint cans to keep the paint from freezing in the winter...they swore it made the paint flow better....But, i'll be darned if i'm gonna start mixin urine with my airbrush paints to get them to flow:oooh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 KF, is that mural one of yours, nice one who ever??? And what is that guy on the left with the funny hat doing, is that a paint can if front of him/?????.pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Wow!! Cool mural KF. I wish I could come to Arkansas and just watch you paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68KingFisher Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 KF, is that mural one of yours, nice one who ever??? And what is that guy on the left with the funny hat doing, is that a paint can if front of him/?????.pete Yep, its my artwork....did this for a restaurant my wife and daughter work for...did a total of nine murals for them.....heres a closer view of the characters on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Very nice KF- From this distance they looked like relief carvings at first.pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 That's what I was thinking Pete. Looks like the images were carved into leather. Great looking job K.F. I can only dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
