Artificial All The Way Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 This probably doesn’t matter to most but I like some lures to only have small amount of high light in them. So the clarity of the plastic matters to me in these lures. Question: What plastic stays the clearest after cooking/cooling? I’ve tried a few kinds of plastics in a few diff hardness levels. Some get a cloudy look and some get a tint. Thought it was maybe cooking to fast or to hot but that's not the case. The results are repeatable. Has anyone made colorless lures? What plastic did you find stayed the clearest? Thanks Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBK Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 They all should get crystal clear. You may not be cooking it long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Theres a few tricks to get perfectly clear plastic. the way someone cooks it is most important however you can fudge alittle to make it better. 1. the best way to cook plastic is in a oven ( you dont have to stir it in a oven either) and heat exchanger., 2. then on a stove/cooking pot or heat lamps 3. microwaves if your plastic is milky its not being cooker thuroughly. microwaves cause this prolem alot do to the way they heat the plastic. if your using the microwave make sure you stir stir stir and them some. also it doesnt hurt to let it set for a while then zap it and stir again, now for the trick part. add a drop of black or a drop of dark blue(blackgrape) to the plastic, your plastic will look like a glass of water. usually 1 drop in a cup of plastic is more than enough, if using hightlights DONT add blue add Black as the blue kinda changes the highlight color and black doesnt. Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial All The Way Posted October 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I check temps. Have even gone to far trying to see if it cooked out. Turned brownish tint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 From my experience, M-F is the clearest. I've been cooking for over 7 years and have used a pot, burner and microwave. I have tried M-F, LC, Calhoun's, Bear's De-aired, Ozark plastics and Chemionics. They all are "clear" but that is a very subjective term really. You can see a difference if you cook them side-by-side. As seen with the Chemionics brand, mixing the plastisol components properly was very important. Improper mixing lead to a completely opaque cup of plastic. I doubt that the slight hint of cloudiness will ever effect a bait though. Also, with some products, the micro bubbles will affect clearity. You have to cook the bubbles out to get a true, "clear" bait. Just info from my experience with the products. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildtail97 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 We shoot a lot of clear baits, Calhoun has been good, I have not tried MF. I have found that if you add a very small amount of color to counter the burnt amber tint, it does work well. I think that is what Del is saying. Control your temp, we keep ours at 315 after it is well mixed and melted. We also add stabilizer, that seems to help keep that clear look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTfishingrods Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) I may have misunderstood what del was saying, but I believe he was talking about before it is burnt. Once plastic begins to tint or scorch, I am not aware of a way to bring it back. Even heat stabilizer has to be added before this point. I also use the bbcp and calhoun. I think the BBCP is a bit clearer. But again I think maybe cooking methods may have a bit to do with it also. Who knows what makes it different from person to person LOL. Maybe its also just finding the plastic you prefer and working with it to learn the plastic tolerances. What would be cool is somehow to do a blind comparison of clear baits side by side and not know what plastic was used until after you picked the clearest one. Take the favorite brand and or vendor issue out of the equation completely. Edited October 15, 2009 by MTfishingrods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I have all the brands but Calhoun's in my shop. I can cook a single clear worm of each and post them all up without attaching a name... BBCP is very clear also. As a matter of fact, I can't tell the difference between BBCP and M-F in super soft. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I may have misunderstood what del was saying, but I believe he was talking about before it is burnt. Once plastic begins to tint or scorch, I am not aware of a way to bring it back. Even heat stabilizer has to be added before this point. I also use the bbcp and calhoun. I think the BBCP is a bit clearer. But again I think maybe cooking methods may have a bit to do with it also. Who knows what makes it different from person to person LOL. Maybe its also just finding the plastic you prefer and working with it to learn the plastic tolerances. What would be cool is somehow to do a blind comparison of clear baits side by side and not know what plastic was used until after you picked the clearest one. Take the favorite brand and or vendor issue out of the equation completely. Your correct MT I am talking before its cooked/burnt. I woud have never believed it 1 day about 3 years ago I got 4 drums of calhoun 2 of which that was BLACK, they wouldnt take it back either. in trying to find a fix for it There chemist had me mix it one drum of the black stuff to 2 drums of white stuff to fix it. still looked grey but was crystal clear when it was cooked. heat stabilizer will also add a yellow tint, burning of course will add a yellow tint as well, glitter and highlites will fade if the plastic is too hot and turn crystal clear plastic tinty. reheats are a no no if you want a clear plastic if there is any glitter in it. Calhoun Used to be the best hands down , until about 2 years ago when they went to crap. not saying its garbage just saying its not anywere close to what is was. pretty much all plastics work the same, the price of the plastics in wholesale form will dictate what is the best plastic as far as clearity, this is not counting how you cook it as that throws a whole nother probem in it. about your best midrange plastic out there is M-f for hand pourers, Plastic manufacturers the big ones, not MF not calhoun etc but the big world wide companies have high dollar plastics and you can notice a huge difference in clearity and even cooking, along with the UV's and how long it will stay clear for. however you will also notice a huge cost increase in a better product. hand pourers generally want the cheapest plastic they can get that still works well and doesnt stink., you can buy plastic that will work the exact same as calhoun/m-f / lurecraft etc etc for a 1/3 of the price however it stinks big iIme and smokes even worse. they dont make that much difference in injection machines as the plastic is cooked in a heat exchanger that is not open to outside air so to speak ( Mike can fill you in on that part) Like wise you can buy a plastic thats better than the above mentioned for 2-3 times the wholesale price. you will get a more consistant plastic a clearer plastic and one that doesnt fade or turn color after a while. There is no bad plastic so to speak, they all so the same thing , some have different textures(feel) some have a better or worse smell and some smoke alot more than others. I shouldnt say there are no bad plastics wait till you see the absolute JUNK thats coming from CHINA in the form of big swimbaits, the stuff smells like it was on fire and comes out a greyish nasty color wierd texture like the plastic when you burn it and it turns black. also You cant judge a plastic by Hardness and softness as you can make any plastic the same durometer reading. You will always hear people say so and so's soft is not as soft as so and so, which is true its not because of the plastic its because thats how they mixed it when they first started and thats how they/or there customers like it so they keep it like that. for example you can take m-f supersoft and it will be a tad differnt in hardness than lure craft super soft. can't compare calhoun to it as there soft is just between supersoft and regular m-f however you can add a touch of softener and make it exactly. if your looking for a certain hardness softness its best if you get a durometer and a good one , then you can mix your plastics to the exact hardness every time. when we were having problems with calhoun way back when. we purchased 5 gals of every plastic out there sent a pint to a lab cook and had them check it. they cook it in a controled oven with no colors/glitters or additives in little pans that are made of alum. they kinda look like a cupcake wrapper but thicker. the big difference was BUBBLES and Texture and SMELL of the cooked plastic and yellowing. over the last 3 years the reason why some plastic companies products have changed so drastically is due to what and where they get the componets to mix the stuff. some had no choise as to the oil prices going way the heck up, others had no choice cause it was a shortage for a while. I guess what I am saying is that they all work the same, if you want clear baits DONT add heat stabilzers worm oils and only cook enough to pour the bait, DON'T add gliiter scents to the whole batch then reheat only add glitter to the amount you want to use before you have reheat. if you are using color it makes no difference. Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial All The Way Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thank you very much guys. Lots of good info. And to clarify, not trying to clear up burnt plastic. Form my experience that is not possible. You can use it and it doesn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Jay, Unfortunately, my experiences are with super soft and a few medium (regular) strengths only. Maybe other saltwater users can chime in. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Here is an example of a curl tail reaper bait from M-F from last night.... GB Bloody Shad.. Red core in front portion of bait. Rest of bait has tiny silver holo, tiny black and 2 drops of iridescent pearl (M-F) If the sun comes out, I'll get a better shot!!!! It is crystal clear except the flake... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial All The Way Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanks Jim. In your opinion does the softness of a plastic determine the hook pull out strength? Harder plastics are stronger or just stiffer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) Jay Del can probably speak to this the best but the hardness of the plastic on the durometer is the bottom line on hardness. Not sure that makes sense!!! Del will jump in and answer maybe. Anyway, the firmer/harder plastic does allow for longer hook holding. Take the Mann's Hardnose products for instance, they use a hard plastic in the nose for hook holding and then a softer plastic in the body and tail areas for action. Jim Edited October 15, 2009 by ghostbaits additional info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial All The Way Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanks Jim. that lure looks very clear. Figures I haven't tried M-F yet. Guess I need to. Those Mans are solid noses. I've done that but it's a PIA to get them to stay centered when adding them in hot plastic. I double dip the heads in very hard plasticm after the lures cool for that same effect. Please chime in Del. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Email Jeff at M-F (or call) and tell him Jim @ Ghost Baits sent you. He will get you out something to try. That boy LOVES when I send potential customers over there for FREE samples!!! Sorry Jeff!!!!!! I have used their tube or saltwater plastic before and it is very tough. We made large topwater frogs for Musky fishing. That stuff is firm but musky teeth are SHARP!!!! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial All The Way Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanks again. I hear you on the teeth. we have thses little 15lb Blues here. One cast one plastic gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camrynekai Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I have been pouring for 14 years and I have used them all....hands down M-F is as clear as you are going to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) This is the type of results you get with a Perfectly clear plastic when adding transparent colors. you can tell by the Gloss, the transparency and the light reflection and absorbtion. the second pic is 3 days later on another pour Edited October 15, 2009 by Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial All The Way Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 First shot looks very nice Del. Second seems darker. Is that the same color diff plastic? Can you take this one as well? Does the softness of a plastic determine the hook pull out strength? Harder plastics are stronger or just stiffer? Looking to see if I can get a plastic stronger and softer then the LC 500. I have made some mixing diff plastic that seems to be stronger but I would rather just buy one plastic and not have to add or blend. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 First shot looks very nice Del. Second seems darker. Is that the same color diff plastic? Can you take this one as well? Does the softness of a plastic determine the hook pull out strength? Harder plastics are stronger or just stiffer? Looking to see if I can get a plastic stronger and softer then the LC 500. I have made some mixing diff plastic that seems to be stronger but I would rather just buy one plastic and not have to add or blend. Thanks 2 different baits and thickness's 1st one was shot at a 45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial All The Way Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Sorry. I think I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 If you add softener, the hook will rip out much easier. If you add hardener, you will the bait a lot tougher and the hook will hold better. Many times with super soft baits, if you try to fish them right away, you cast the bait right off the hook. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial All The Way Posted October 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Thanks Jim. I set up some hook pull out tests and you are on the money. Hook pulls out much easier. I just tried adding some fiberglass matting into the head area. Was able to lift 5 times the weight as without. Pretty cool results for a first try. Also found a few diff companies using non plastic and making what looks like plastic lures. Wondering if this new stuff "ElaZtech" can be heated and used by little guys. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAE73 Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 I have found MF regular plastic to be the clearest, MF saltwater does seem to give a slight tint of yellow after cooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
