Kris Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Bought a new AB Tuesday of this week. Used it for 1st time today. Bought a Iwata Eclipse HP CS. Before spraying any paint through I ran some water through it and some acetone to clean anything that might be in there out. Did this a couple of times. I use Polytranspar, Wildlife & Createx paints. I had problems with this new AB spitting paint and bubbles in the cup. These problems started right away. I would press down and sometimes a spit of paint would come out. Or I would press down and began to pull back and nothing ... nothing ... nothing ... then bam ... a shot of paint would come out. After a few times of this happening I pulled the needle out cleaned it. I ran water and sometimes acetone through the AB after each color. I ran air pressure anywhere from 20-45. I used to have a Iwata Revolution. Is that I need to get use to this "different" AB? Just figured w/ a new AB I wouldn't have these kind of problems ... not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 If you are seeing bubbles in the cup try tightening the nut on the front of the AB and/or gently (and I mean gently) pushing the needle forward. Don't EVER force the needle forward into the nose cone piece, just snug it up. This will correct your problem. jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KandyBass Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 +1 to Riverman. That always solves my problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 The bubbles are from air leaking around the needle and into the paint channel. Usually it's just that the nozzle cap is a little loose. Sometimes it's dried up paint or dirt in the little seat where the nozzle sits in the body of the airbrush. Try tightening the cap, then cleaning the nozzle and budy. Could also be a big scratch on the nozzle or that seat area. Some beeswax can help seal that up if it's still leaking, just be careful not to get any on the inside of the nozzle. On airbrushes that have threaded nozzles, it's usually just a loose nozzle. The little splatter of paint is paint that's on the tip of the needle getting blown off when you push the trigger. Either your needle isn't seating tightly in the nozzle or you're releasing the trigger with it pulled back. Make sure the trigger is forward before releasing it, and make sure the needle is tight in the nozzle like riverman said. The paint not coming out until you pull way back sounds like your paint might need to be thinned a little. Or it could be that there's little clumps in it that clog the nozzle until you get it open pretty far. Straining the paint will get rid of the clumps. If you only thin it very slightly, water works fine, if mor than a little, then get some thinner for the brand of paint you're using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlander Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 This is the model I have my eye on too. HobLob has a 40% coupon this week. Doesnt come with the hose though. Are there other needles available for Iwata's?? My Paasche has 3. And why the extreme price for Iwata's? Gold plating somewhere??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Thanks for info guys. I'm assuming that if you don't gently push the needle forward into the nose cone that you will end up bending the needle? Also, I've read a lot here about problems being due to bent needles ... It's the tip that bent I'm assuming and how do you tell if the tip is bent since I would guess that even the small bend would cause problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) Just pull out the needle and look at it closely. If it's bent, you will be able to tell. Wipe it clean with solvent if it has any paint on it. If it's not the needle, check to see that the nozzle is properly screwed in (the little bitty wrench supplied with the ab is for that) and that it has not been split or bent. You might need a magnifying glass to examine the nozzle for damage. None of these things should be wrong with a factory fresh airbrush. If they are, perhaps it was damaged in shipment and you should contact the store. If you buy one used, well, you pays your money and takes your chances. Used brushes sometimes have partial paint clogs left by the idiot that sold you the airbrush. If you suspect that, you need to disassemble the brush and soak it in airbrush cleaner (not acetone) overnight, then rinse it out with water. If there is no apparent damage to the needle or nozzle, bubbles in the cup almost always indicate a partial paint clog. Airbrushes are simple machines with few moving parts. Don't be afraid to take it apart and see how everything works. Just be careful you don't bend the needle or the nozzle and you'll be OK. Edited October 29, 2009 by BobP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MstormC Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Thanks for info guys. I'm assuming that if you don't gently push the needle forward into the nose cone that you will end up bending the needle?Also, I've read a lot here about problems being due to bent needles ... It's the tip that bent I'm assuming and how do you tell if the tip is bent since I would guess that even the small bend would cause problems? Lay the needle on a clean flat surface and roll it. If it's bent you will see it. I'm betting that it is the nozzle cap letting some air pass by and a little bees wax should fix that right up and you won't have bubbles in the cup and the hesitation for paint being sprayed will be cured too. Let us know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) You have to look closely at the very tip of the needle too. If the tip touches anything more than very slightly it'll bend and it can be tough to see if you're not looking for it. It'll just look like the very tip is bent over, like a hook that hung in rocks. will be very subtle but if you're looking closely you'll see it. Really little bend but it'll really screw your painting up. Rolling the needle on a flat surface won't show you this. finlander.......the higher price for the Iwatas has a very simple explanation. You get what you pay for. They really are better, just more precision in the manufacturing. More quality control. Nozzles and needles are polished more finely so paint goes through better. Everything fits together right and doesn't need any special tricks to get them working properly. I don't know if it's justifiable the amount more they cost, but we buy them and people will continue to buy them......so i guess it is. Cheaper brushes can be used with good effects, but I've had a two Iwatas and two peaks....... there's a huge difference. Edited October 29, 2009 by clamboni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Update...Fixed the bubble problem. The Head Cap needed to be tighten. So I guess that is where the air problem was. I then started playing with the AB and took off the nozzle cap to see if could do fine lines w/ this AB. After a few seconds of spraying I began noticing a blob of paint would form on the tip of the needle. If I stopped and then started or increased air pressure this blob would become a splatter. So I'm guessing my splatter problem is to thick of paint. I also was playing around with some colors ... mixed some Polytranspar and Wildlife in the cup and could hardly get it to shoot through. Before I bought my HP-CS I was also considering the Iwata High Plus HP-C Plus. Is there much of a difference between this 2 AB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68KingFisher Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I'm assuming that if you don't gently push the needle forward into the nose cone that you will end up bending the needle?quote]Actually, pushing the needle forward into the nozzle to hard won't hurt the needle as much as it'll hurt the nozzle...the cone shaped tip....what you'll do is blow it out...actually split the tip from too much pressure inside, at which point its junk and needs replaced.....Split tips happen with wear, but constantly applying too much pressure when inserting the needle will hasten that wear if your not careful. When you insert the needle you want to feel a solid metal to metal contact...I back off and make contact a time or two....kind of getting a feel for that solid contact.....if it feels slightly soft or spongy, I know there is still some dried paint in the tip....if you try to force that paint thru the tip with the needle you risk splitting the tip, so your better off removing it and cleaning it again....once you've done this a few times you'll get a feel for inserting the needle and knowing it seated correctly against the inside of the nozzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68KingFisher Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) Update...Fixed the bubble problem. The Head Cap needed to be tighten. So I guess that is where the air problem was.I then started playing with the AB and took off the nozzle cap to see if could do fine lines w/ this AB. After a few seconds of spraying I began noticing a blob of paint would form on the tip of the needle. If I stopped and then started or increased air pressure this blob would become a splatter. So I'm guessing my splatter problem is to thick of paint. I also was playing around with some colors ... mixed some Polytranspar and Wildlife in the cup and could hardly get it to shoot through. Before I bought my HP-CS I was also considering the Iwata High Plus HP-C Plus. Is there much of a difference between this 2 AB? What your discribing is less likely to be a paint problem and more likely to be operator error.....sorry.....But i'll lay odds that your making a rookie airbrushing mistake of letting off the trigger without moving the needle forward to stop the flow of paint first.....what happens is that a drop of paint gathers around the needle and is pushed forward when the trigger springs forward after you've released it....since you stopped airflow first the paint isn't blown away, but hangs on the tip....the next time you hit the trigger for air, you get a blast of paint splatter you didn't want or expect. A simple training exercise will help you overcome the releasing the trigger problem....You want to learn whats called the "Dagger stroke"....its a simple stroke of the airbrush where you draw a line across a piece of paper or some other flat substrate, and you want the line to start and stop with a tappered point....if your line just stops and doesn't taper off then your releasing your trigger before closing the needle....which is usually followed by a splatter at the beginning of the next spray.....once you get to where you can draw consistant lines that taper off to a point then your operating the airbrush correctly.....push down for air...pull back for paint....push forward to stop the paint flow....let off trigger to stop airflow......Sounds simple but its not to a beginner....its just takes some repetative practice....once that dagger stroke becomes second nature to you, you'll have a ton of airbrush control and all your work will improve. You guys could probably benefit from some of the airbrush techniques that are taught to new airbrushers that want to learn to paint tee shirts and other items where they want to add artwork and not just do fades.....the practice techniques of dots, daggers, circles, and S's will help anyone become better with controlling their airbrush....even if you just use them to paint fades with. Edited October 30, 2009 by 68KingFisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miragestalker Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I just bought an airbrush. Reading thru this thread, I feel like, I just got married, AGAIN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68KingFisher Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 You say that like marrage is a bad thing?.....lol.....It, like anything takes some time to get the hang of.....learning to airbrush is no different, and much more forgiving then a wife...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 LOL my marriage is fine, you find the right one it's just like having a girlfriend. But anyway, like we said, still sounds like you have the trigger back when you stop the air. Another good practice for this is just in case this happens, start with just air and not pointing at the lure. If you have splatter, it won't hit the lure. If the blob is building up on the tip of the needle while you're actually spraying, that's just weird, cause the air flow shouldn't allow it. If you can, keep an eye on what part of the needle it's building up on, you may have air passages blocked in that part......not likely though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 i'll lay odds that your making a rookie airbrushing mistake of letting off the trigger without moving the needle forward to stop the flow of paint first.....what happens is that a drop of paint gathers around the needle and is pushed forward when the trigger springs forward after you've released it....since you stopped airflow first the paint isn't blown away, but hangs on the tip... 68KingFisher, Not surprised its a operator error I used to be in software and we claimed that the problem most of the time was BTCK ( Between The Chair and Keyboard). So if I understand what your saying ... I'm pressing down for air and pulling back for paint flow. Then I'm letting up on the trigger cutting off air while I still have the trigger pulled back for paint flow. I'm cutting air flow off 1st and paint flow off 2nd when it should be reversed. I should push the trigger back forward cutting off paint flow THEN cut off air flow. Sound correct? I have already thought about your suggestion of taking some basic airbrush lessons. Everything is built on basics and you go from there. Thanks for all your help and info ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clamboni Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 68KingFisher,Not surprised its a operator error I used to be in software and we claimed that the problem most of the time was BTCK ( Between The Chair and Keyboard). So if I understand what your saying ... I'm pressing down for air and pulling back for paint flow. Then I'm letting up on the trigger cutting off air while I still have the trigger pulled back for paint flow. I'm cutting air flow off 1st and paint flow off 2nd when it should be reversed. I should push the trigger back forward cutting off paint flow THEN cut off air flow. Sound correct? I have already thought about your suggestion of taking some basic airbrush lessons. Everything is built on basics and you go from there. Thanks for all your help and info ... That's exactly what we said. if there's no paint flowing but still air blowing past the needle, the paint will be blown off and solve your problem. Check it out. With paint in the cup, pull the trigger back without depressing it to move air. Now look at the tip of the needle, there'll be a little drop of paint on there. This is essentially the same thing that happens. When you pull the trigger back, it pulls the needle back into the channel where the paint is. When you move the trigger back forward, the paint that gets on the needle will still be on there, but now it'll be in the airflow. Same thing when you stop the airflow with the needle pulled back, that same paint still is on the needle. Unless your paint is really thin or your nozzle really big you usually won't notice the paint out there because it's such a small amount. But it's still enough to create splatter when you start moving air through again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68KingFisher Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 So if I understand what your saying ... I'm pressing down for air and pulling back for paint flow. Then I'm letting up on the trigger cutting off air while I still have the trigger pulled back for paint flow. I'm cutting air flow off 1st and paint flow off 2nd when it should be reversed. I should push the trigger back forward cutting off paint flow THEN cut off air flow. Sound correct? Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
