Making Swimbaits From Resin...help!

[Frank]

What I learned for rtv is mix it well then put in vacumn chamber to remove air bubbles you put in when mixing. It takes a few minutes but you can get very air free molds. And yes I brush on rtv to the bottom of my master to prevent the bubbles from gathering there. I pour in the corner of the box and let the rtv climb up the master until full. But here is the best thing by far that has helped me get a better mold is I put it in a pressure chamber to compress the bubbles until it cures, over night mostly.

Rookie I also use the pressure chamber to cast a part. You do not want to expand the bubbles you want to compress them until it is set. The bubbles that I get are like champange bubbles that are not large enough to escape from the pour holes. They just gather at the top of the mold. If you use a one piece mold i learned that if you open the mold and pour the resin in wait a few seconds and let the small bubbles escape the large opening then when you release the mold most of the bubbles come out the top. Makes a little mess but the end product is more bubble free. Then I put it in the chamber and put pressure to it till it cures.

One more for Rookie is it a secret additive you add to the resin or am I going to buy one and cut it in half to see what you use? That has not been beyond me to do this. But what a shame for that kind of art.

[MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF]

What I learned for rtv is mix it well then put in vacumn chamber to remove air bubbles you put in when mixing. It takes a few minutes but you can get very air free molds. And yes I brush on rtv to the bottom of my master to prevent the bubbles from gathering there. I pour in the corner of the box and let the rtv climb up the master until full. But here is the best thing by far that has helped me get a better mold is I put it in a pressure chamber to compress the bubbles until it cures, over night mostly.

Rookie I also use the pressure chamber to cast a part. You do not want to expand the bubbles you want to compress them until it is set. The bubbles that I get are like champange bubbles that are not large enough to escape from the pour holes. They just gather at the top of the mold. If you use a one piece mold i learned that if you open the mold and pour the resin in wait a few seconds and let the small bubbles escape the large opening then when you release the mold most of the bubbles come out the top. Makes a little mess but the end product is more bubble free. Then I put it in the chamber and put pressure to it till it cures.

One more for Rookie is it a secret additive you add to the resin or am I going to buy one and cut it in half to see what you use? That has not been beyond me to do this. But what a shame for that kind of art.

WINE CORK! alot of Wine Cork!

[mark poulson]

WINE CORK! alot of Wine Cork!

Natural cork, or the new, artificial cork?

[Frank]

WINE CORK! alot of Wine Cork!

Thank You

[A-Mac]

I know the little bubbles you are referring to Rookie. They can definately torque you off as you paint... Its weird, you'd think such small holes would either: A) fill in with paint or B ) Just simply get covered by paint. Apparently, the holes are the perfectly wrong size and seem to never cover unless you do like 8 coats on it.

I don't know the answer to this one. I mostly paint more natural colors if I'm painting resin and, to be quite honest, I've come to like SOME of the bubbles. I've gotten the, "holy ! How'd you do that!, response from several people because they think its super fine detail... Heck, why argue!

If I were doing more solid colors (instead of blends) I wouldn't be happy either.

Edited November 16, 2009 by A-Mac

[Husky]

Try this:

Mix D2T with alcohol or acetone to thin it and lay it on as a seal coat. That should provide a good base coat and should fill any tiny bubble craters. I say this because when I do photo finishing, the epoxy seal coat works that way on the exposed resin part of the bait.

Husky,

I get these tiny little air bubble I swear you dont see until you start to lay some paint on the bait... THEY DRIVE ME FREAKIN NUTS O!!!! and IM ALREADY NUTS O!!! Do you put your resin in a vaccum after you cast it cause I have been thinkin that is the only way to solve this problem. but then you need a resin with a longer pot life and more molds to do productions... or you can just using glazin putty and sand like crazy.. Thanks for all the info your giving bud! Im learning from your post as well and I have been messin around with this stuff for 2 years now. I still havent broke down and done a 2 part mold like some of you guys have. I never could figure out the best way to go about it! 1 part molds just seem easier....

TIP FOR YOU MOLDING GUYS!!! When you pour your RTV over your bait to cast! pour the RTV VERY SLOWLY!!! I like to put a little bit directly on the part with a paint brush..it seems like your molds come out alot better and cleaner if you put a small amount of RTV on the blank your molding... alot of instructional video say let the RTV COVER THE PART AS YOU POUR IT!!! DONT PUT IT ON THE PART LET IT RUN OVER THE PART BY ITSELF!! FALSE FALSE WRONG ADVICE DONT LISTEN!!! WARNING!!!!!!! THAT WAS THE WORST ADVICE ANYONE EVER GAVE ME!!! COVER THE PART FIRST WITH A LITTLE BIT OF RTV then SPREAD IT ALL OVER THE BAIT WITH A BRUSH.. After you do that!!! then pour the rest of your RTV IN AND FILL YOUR MOLD!!! TRUST ME TRUST ME TRUST!!! You will have alot cleaner molds... but you will still have air bubbles from the resin.. I have some PERFECT MOLDS and still get tiny air bubbles I have to fill or fix!

The ROOKIE

"If live to play and my work is play when do I really get to play"

Edited November 17, 2009 by Husky

[Frank]

Filling these pin holes is not a problem.Not getting these is my goal this will take one time consuming step out of the process. I think that is my reasoning. Samples sent to me by one resin co had none at all.

[Husky]

Filling these pin holes is not a problem.Not getting these is my goal this will take one time consuming step out of the process. I think that is my reasoning. Samples sent to me by one resin co had none at all.

Did you try laying a thin skim coat of pure resin onto the cavity.let it set then pour the rest? It'll adds a few minutes to the process and casting but will assure a solid skin, I THINK.

[Frank]

Funny you should ask that cause an earlier post by deimai showed larry rolling a bait to make it hollow. I though it would be like you say thin and bubble free on the outside any ways. I will have to give it a shot. I thought of putting it on a rock thumbler to roll until it sets.Thanks forall the differant ideas this is good like food for the brain. By the way my castings are about 90% bubble free now that I changed a few things. Thank You

[Husky]

Funny you should ask that cause an earlier post by deimai showed larry rolling a bait to make it hollow. I though it would be like you say thin and bubble free on the outside any ways. I will have to give it a shot. I thought of putting it on a rock thumbler to roll until it sets.Thanks forall the differant ideas this is good like food for the brain. By the way my castings are about 90% bubble free now that I changed a few things. Thank You

If you have more than one mold, you can do a few at a time, which will cut down on the overall wait time. It just has to be the thinnest of layers. Perhaps it could be brushed on, If you're fast, it'll self level before the cure stars, I THINK.

[MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF]

If you have more than one mold, you can do a few at a time, which will cut down on the overall wait time. It just has to be the thinnest of layers. Perhaps it could be brushed on, If you're fast, it'll self level before the cure stars, I THINK.

If you have pin holes. the best way I have found to fill them is this step by step process. Dont get me wrong husky method will work. I just hate sanding epoxy. seems like it gums up my sand paper faster than bondo glazing putty and primer.

Here is my method I use to fix minor pin holes from air bubbles in resin baits.

First you really cant see them by the naked eye until you put primer coat down. I have some casted baits that I swear are SUPER CLEAN until I prime them.. then IM PISSED! Cause now I know all the extra work I have to do to clean them up.

1. Prime bait wait for primer to dry good.

2. Spread bondo glazing putty all over the bait. NOT REAL BONDO.. GLAZING.. NOT THE RED STUFF YOU BUY AT AUTOZONE etc either.. YOU want the 2 part mix. I like this stuff to do my glazin My link 3M PIRANHA PUTTY CLICK ON THE MY LINK BUTTON.. I like this product because it goes on thin and runny! Which helps get into those tiny pin holes much better than other bondo glazing products I have used and it is very easy to sand.

3. Sand the bait the bait with 360 grit.. some will say 400 or 600 grit.. but the 360 gives you more bite and less work.. your going to prime it one more time and paint it later you will not see sand marks if you sand lightly.. you want smooth surface.. I also wet sand in my CATTLE DRINKIN TEST TANK in my garage to keep down the dust!

4. Prime it again... see if you have smooth finish yet. if not repeat steps again.. usually I can do it once but sometimes after I sand I still have a few pin holes that just didnt fill so I have to repeat it again.

5. Ok after a couple of times of repeating steps 1 and 2. you should have a clean surface and your ready to paint.

Some do the bondo glazin first than the primer.. but I have found the primer helps you see the pin holes better and it saves you a step if you prime it first then glaze it! Good luck hope this helps.

The Rookie

Edited November 18, 2009 by The_Rookie

[Husky]

If you have pin holes. the best way I have found to fill them is this step by step process. Dont get me wrong husky method will work. I just hate sanding epoxy. seems like it gums up my sand paper faster than bondo glazing putty and primer.

snip

The Rookie

Rookie, What I was talking about is taking some straight UR, mixing it well, and applying it to the cavity walls. It will make a thin shell that should be smooth and bubble free. Once that sets, make a mix of UR and MB's foth the rest. There will be no additional sanding.

[Frank]

I think he is answering your earlier post.

Rookie look at the ever coat putty it comes in a chaulking tube so the hardener is dispensed at the same time. Sands the same as what you are using. Nothing wrong with what you are using though. You probably have alot too.

For pin holes lately I just use water borne primer and rub it on with my finger so it get in the holes then primer over it. You can spray it and rub in the holes also. Working in a body shop does help alot.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Frank

[MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF]

I think he is answering your earlier post.

Rookie look at the ever coat putty it comes in a chaulking tube so the hardener is dispensed at the same time. Sands the same as what you are using. Nothing wrong with what you are using though. You probably have alot too.

For pin holes lately I just use water borne primer and rub it on with my finger so it get in the holes then primer over it. You can spray it and rub in the holes also. Working in a body shop does help alot.

My bad Husky I dont know how to reply on this new site without quoting a old post.. I was trying to refer to using epoxy to fix the holes.. Screw it all in general.. I found a new way to fix them... FOIL THE DAM THING! and paint it. YOUR DA MAN HUSKY! Sorry about the wrong post or bad forum ED IT CUT! MY BAD!

The rookie

[Frank]

The problem Ive had with covering over the pin holes is when they get hot in the truck Ive had some bubble the top coat. I had an old one on my bench for a while like that so I cut the bubble off and nothing. At least not to the naked eye . So I sanded and sure enuogh there was some under the primer. As for foiling I use leaf products and they show up more cause it is really thin.

This post has gone on for a long time I hope all who read this dont get discouraged and not try it. There is so much good in the posts that you should be able to cut alot off the learning curve. Come on and buy some resin and some rtv and join in it is really not that hard. Thank You all for reading.

Rookie click the add reply below the yellow box below the last post. It is not in any field but next to the new tpoic box.

[MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF]

The problem Ive had with covering over the pin holes is when they get hot in the truck Ive had some bubble the top coat. I had an old one on my bench for a while like that so I cut the bubble off and nothing. At least not to the naked eye . So I sanded and sure enuogh there was some under the primer. As for foiling I use leaf products and they show up more cause it is really thin.

This post has gone on for a long time I hope all who read this dont get discouraged and not try it. There is so much good in the posts that you should be able to cut alot off the learning curve. Come on and buy some resin and some rtv and join in it is really not that hard. Thank You all for reading.

Rookie click the add reply below the yellow box below the last post. It is not in any field but next to the new tpoic box.

IM NOT GOING TO LET THIS POST DIE!!!! I have never posted this many times before on the same post so I feel I have invested to much time to watch it slowly go to PAGE 2. HORSE CRAP ITS STAYIN ONE MORE DAY.

Frank... your resin will bubble your paint if you paint your part right after you cast it or you dont give it time to cure.. It takes time for it to cure. I have had this talk with alot of guys in the past about this...then I remember a talk with Mickey at 3:16. One time told me he heats his baits up before he paints them...At the time I wasnt making baits but I did put that in the memory bank. I use to wait 2 weeks before I painted them just for fear of the bubbles. But I have found the best methond is this..

Put them in a oven set at 150 to 200 degrees for about 1 hour or so. I believe your gasin out the resin. or helping it cure.. plus it seems like the next time your baits get in heat they hold up and dont bubble because they were already that hot before.. Just my theory and it has worked for me so far.

The Rookie

Edited November 19, 2009 by The_Rookie

[Frank]

I dont paint right away maybe at the earliest the next day but the oven thing sounds real good. I have tried to drill the same day and got some type of wettness from the drilling. I will try this. And you are right once they bubble they never do it more in different spots. Thanks for that. The view counter need to go over 1000 so keep going!!!

[A-Mac]

Hmmm... I use my oil heater for that too! I lay some foil over the top have my lures on one side and scrambled eggs on the other. The oven thing is brilliant! I've just found a use for pre-heat!

Edited November 19, 2009 by A-Mac

[Frank]

To day I made two new molds as I speak they are in the pressure tank with a light on the outside to keep the chamber warm. Tomorrow I will cast some new parts with the new menthods I have learned here. You all know how good it is to have a post go on this long without there being any arguing. Just good info that may work for or may not. Just give them a try. What will it cost but a few cents in resin and a little time. But maybe it will save you time later.

One other question do you guys weight in the mold or after it is cast?

Edited November 20, 2009 by Frank

[A-Mac]

To day I made two new molds as I speak they are in the pressure tank with a light on the outside to keep the chamber warm. Tomorrow I will cast some new parts with the new menthods I have learned here. You all know how good it is to have a post go on this long without there being any arguing. Just good info that may work for or may not. Just give them a try. What will it cost but a few cents in resin and a little time. But maybe it will save you time later.

One other question do you guys weight in the mold or after it is cast?

I would recommend pouring a lure that doesn't have weight first. This way, you can add a little weight at a time until you find out the right amount. The big thing is that you won't have to cast several baits that may not even work; thus, wasting you time and $. Thats my anyways. Once you know how much you need then I would totally recommend pouring it in. better to sacrifice the first born.. i mean molded... lure for the sake of many!

[Frank]

Well said I think I will sacrafice one or two rather than a dozen.Will try it tomorrow. I also have to deal with making it float(cork).

[Luretrekker]

This is a really interesting topic, because every lurebuilder who is working seriously with resin molded baits will have exactly the problems you guys mentioned.

I had some problems with bubbles in the beginning...and still there arise some bubbles here and there, but I restrict potential bubbles into areas of the mold with no detail where I can fix the holes afterwards whit resin again and sand it down. I'm positioning the mold in a way the bubble collect in the area whith minimal work after curing. I alwas make a check for hidden bubbles by through-lighting the blanks with a strong light source..it helps finding potential bubbles to fill them.

For me bubbles are the thing I really hate...its the worst thing and everything else than lurebuilding fun...but it has to be fixed to get a perfect product at the end.

The other thing...with bubbles or hidden bubbles which expand under our topcoat and paint in the heat is also tricky. As rookie said it worked for me either to let the pieces cure for a longer time and let them gas out. I was thinking about heating them, but never tried it until now...this will be the next thing I will try.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Luretrekker

[A-Mac]

This is a really interesting topic, because every lurebuilder who is working seriously with resin molded baits will have exactly the problems you guys mentioned.

I had some problems with bubbles in the beginning...and still there arise some bubbles here and there, but I restrict potential bubbles into areas of the mold with no detail where I can fix the holes afterwards whit resin again and sand it down. I'm positioning the mold in a way the bubble collect in the area whith minimal work after curing. I alwas make a check for hidden bubbles by through-lighting the blanks with a strong light source..it helps finding potential bubbles to fill them.

For me bubbles are the thing I really hate...its the worst thing and everything else than lurebuilding fun...but it has to be fixed to get a perfect product at the end.

The other thing...with bubbles or hidden bubbles which expand under our topcoat and paint in the heat is also tricky. As rookie said it worked for me either to let the pieces cure for a longer time and let them gas out. I was thinking about heating them, but never tried it until now...this will be the next thing I will try.

I tried the heating trick (200F in the oven) the day that I poured and proceeded to paint and clear that afternoon... just to see if it worked. I also had another lure that I poured the day before and baked it at the same time. I did not have any bubbles come up from underneath on either lure. However, the paint definitely "stuck" better on the lure that I let de-gas for 2 days vs. the 1 day lure. All in all, I feel that my lure was as tough after 2 days (w/ cooking in the oven) as a lure that I'd let sit for a week. Figured I'd pass on that guess-n-test.

[Luretrekker]

A-Mac,

I made the experience: The longer the blanks are degassing (some did over weeks because of no time) the better was the paint stucking without bubbles under the clear.

[Frank]

Well try I did to get cork or saw dust in the bait to get it to float better and no luck. Alot of bubbles from these products. One thing I did try is to put the micro baloons in and let it settle. The air trapped when I mixed it in floated to the top ,then hit it with heat gun to pop the bubbles. Now when I mixed it together there were far fewer small bubbles. They came out almost perfect. After all that I found that my mold had some thing that I did not like in it so I fixed that. All in all I hope some one will learn from this. When casting from resin like this these problems are something that happens and are not foreign . Call any of the manufacturer and ask them they will know exactly what you are talking about when you tell them of these types of problems.

Next I will put them in the oven and try to cure them. I will do it with half to see if it is any better . Over the last few weeks I picked up a small hand held micsoscope to see what these bubbles might be. From this all I could see is Bubbles that are 95% under the surface. Filling these is hard because they want to push out what you try to put in from the pressure. But if you clean it with a stiff nylon brush the fill it seem to stay in and not push it out. Just a thought cause this is what we do at work to get rid of this problem. Good Castings All.