Thad Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Working on another lure. This is a deeper diving, Poes type lure. I went to test it and it dives quickly and gets down to where I want it but there isn't much movement to it. It barely wiggles. The lure is 2 7/8" long, 3/4" wide, and weights a little over 1/2oz. It is made out of balsa. The lip is 1 7/8" long, and the widest part is 1 3/8" wide. The tow eye comes out 7/8" from the body. Here are some pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Everything looks perfect. Do you feel it shudder or viblate as you retrieve it? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Posted November 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 Everything looks perfect. Do you feel it shudder or viblate as you retrieve it? Dave Nope. When I make a long cast it feels like it is just coming straight back with no wiggle. When I throw it out close to me to see how it moves it is just barely wiggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 The only thing that I can think of, is the lip being too close to horizontal or parallel to the lure axis. The lure rolls like rollin a straw between your finger and thumb. If you introduce more angle (bend the straw), then more wiggle would be visible. I could be way off with this idea. There are a few members who specialise in this type of lure, hopefully they will jump in and rescue you from me. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishwhittler Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 If you tie your line directly to the line tie that may be what is killing the action. Try using a snap or a split ring to connect the lure to the line and see what happens. Hope this helps. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Posted November 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 If you tie your line directly to the line tie that may be what is killing the action. Try using a snap or a split ring to connect the lure to the line and see what happens. Hope this helps. Ben There's no split ring on it because I use snaps to test lures so I can change them faster. I did test this lure with a snap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 You would surely get more action with a lip that has a bigger angle. But then, maybe the lure will not reach the depth you want it to swim. Another option (and this is a guess) would be that you extend somehow the front of the lip, because it seems to me that the tow point should be a little more towards the nose, to get more action from the part of the lip situated in front of the tow point. But since everything is already glued in, I would try to extend the front of the lip, using, for instance, some thin PET material, to see what happens. You could put the material on both sides of the lip, and, using heat, or just glue, you could make a sort of glove at the tip of the lip, to extend it. If it doesn't work, you just take it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 I had similar problems with divers that were intended to reach about the 10ft zone. There are two things I concluded with my lures. You must use planks for each side from the same piece of wood... Its amazing how much difference a slight density difference can make. The other big one was line tie placement. I had lure doing exactly what you were saying. I actually started to have the line tie with a little more "slack" so that I could adjust it forward and backward to find the "sweet spot". Several lures I've made had the same issue and by have the line tie a little longer I was able to have nice lures. Each lure required a a different tuning too, so I couldn't declare that the line tie needed to be 1/16th set back or forth even if the several lures were made from the same plank at the same time. So I'd say its a tuning problem vs. a lure problem in your case (because the lure looks perfect). Gotta find the sweet spot! FYI, I was also using hardened stainless steel so that the lure stayed tuned with the added slack. I'm sure there are guys here that have made hundreds more of these than me. But this info is just based upon my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishwhittler Posted November 18, 2009 Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 You got me. If the problem isn't with the line tie then I don't know what it would be. You'll have to mess with it until you get it to wobble. You might try bending the line tie or shaving a little off the sides of the tail and see if that does anything. Or you can remove the bill and put in another one (it's much simpler to make a new lure though). BTW, why is the line tie bent the way it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Posted November 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 You got me. If the problem isn't with the line tie then I don't know what it would be. You'll have to mess with it until you get it to wobble. You might try bending the line tie or shaving a little off the sides of the tail and see if that does anything. Or you can remove the bill and put in another one (it's much simpler to make a new lure though). BTW, why is the line tie bent the way it is? That's what it took to get the lure to run straight. I'll adjust some things on my next ones to see if I can fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Move the line tie towards the body 1/8 of an inch. The closer the line tie gets to the nose of the lure the more wobble the lure will have. Also... you have one big hole in the lip for the line tie. Make the line tie in a U shape and make a separate hole for each end. The first time that a fish hits that lure your wire will go loose. The lure will never tune correctly and it will definitely affect the action. Put eyes in the holes on the lure and clearcoat it. This will make the bait a practice lure. You will have to cut the lip out and replace it. Maybe several times to see if the action that you desire can be gotten out of that body and lip combination. The angle on that lip looks good for now. I would not take it down any further. The lip on that lure looks a little over powering to me. If you still have problems send me an PM. Skeeter Edited November 19, 2009 by Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Move the line tie towards the body 1/8 of an inch. The closer the line tie gets to the nose of the lure the more wobble the lure will have. Also... you have one big hole in the lip for the line tie. Make the line tie in a U shape and make a separate hole for each end. The first time that a fish hits that lure your wire will go loose. The lure will never tune correctly and it will definitely affect the action. The lip on that lure looks a little over powering to me. Skeeter I was shooting for a wider wobbling, mid-diver with that bill. The reason for the hole that is too big is because of the way I was making the lure. I'll be switching methods once I get the action down. This method is just faster for me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) I make a lure similar to yours - Poe 400 style body with a big circuit board lip. My lip is wider but otherwise looks pretty similar. One thought I have is your ballast may not be enough to stabilize the lure. Mine weighs .95-1.0 oz and has an integrated belly hanger plus added ballast in the chest. The added chest ballast changes the swim attitude of the bait to more head-down, which increases the wiggle. So if I were tinkering, I'd first add .2-.25 oz of ballast in front of the belly hanger, getting the weight up to around .75 oz. - and see how that works. You definitely want slow float buoyancy. If it starts to wiggle but feels like it's "staggering" on the retrieve, even more ballast tends to steady it down. I was surprised to learn how much ballast a big crank with a very big lip takes. When you get to baits designed for 20 ft depth, they live by different rules where fore/aft balance and slow float ballasting are critical. BTW, the line tie should be about 45-48% of the distance from the nose of the bait to the end of the lip. Edited November 19, 2009 by BobP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 That is the problem. You are trying to get faster at making the bait run correctly. Make it right the first time and everytime that you experiment. It is a real hassle I know... but it is what needs to be done. That lip is not for a mid diver. That is a 20 ft. plus lip if the lure is made and ballanced right. Personally I think that the lip is too big. Put a 300 lip in it and try it. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I make a lure similar to yours - Poe 400 style body with a big circuit board lip. My lip is wider but otherwise looks pretty similar. One thought I have is your ballast may not be enough to stabilize the lure. Mine weighs .95-1.0 oz and has an integrated belly hanger plus added ballast in the chest. The added chest ballast changes the swim attitude of the bait to more head-down, which increases the wiggle. So if I were tinkering, I'd first add .2-.25 oz of ballast in front of the belly hanger, getting the weight up to around .75 oz. - and see how that works. You definitely want slow float buoyancy. If it starts to wiggle but feels like it's "staggering" on the retrieve, even more ballast tends to steady it down. I was surprised to learn how much ballast a big crank with a very big lip takes. When you get to baits designed for 20 ft depth, they live by different rules where fore/aft balance and slow float ballasting are critical. BTW, the line tie should be about 45-48% of the distance from the nose of the bait to the end of the lip. Thanks Bob, I will try this on the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoopa Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Move the line tie towards the body 1/8 of an inch. The closer the line tie gets to the nose of the lure the more wobble the lure will have. Also... you have one big hole in the lip for the line tie. Make the line tie in a U shape and make a separate hole for each end. The first time that a fish hits that lure your wire will go loose. The lure will never tune correctly and it will definitely affect the action. Put eyes in the holes on the lure and clearcoat it. This will make the bait a practice lure. You will have to cut the lip out and replace it. Maybe several times to see if the action that you desire can be gotten out of that body and lip combination. The angle on that lip looks good for now. I would not take it down any further. The lip on that lure looks a little over powering to me. If you still have problems send me an PM. Skeeter I would have to agree with Skeeter on this one, most crankbaits ive made the closer to the nose of the bait the line tie is the better action you will get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Most crankbait "laws" are true only to a point. If you move the line tie too close to the nose of the bait, it becomes uncontrollable, blows out and begins to spin. I agree with Skeeter that the lip is too large if you want a medium diver (8-12 ft). My guestimate would be 15-18 ft for that lip size. And your comment that it's balsa reinforces concern about the weight. Balsa has a lot of buoyancy and you want a slow rise. A float test with all the hardware installed would give you useful info. Hang lead on the belly treble until you get the rise speed you want, then you'll know how to doctor the ballast on this one, and what to plan for subsequent ones (of course you weighed and noted the original amount of ballast!). There are things you can do to this bait to start you in the right direction without starting over. If the line tie wire is not solid, run a bead of 2 Ton Devcon along the bottom of the lip to anchor it. You can also bend the line tie toward the nose to get a little more action. Add to or move the ballast around. Keep tinkering until you get it going in the right direction, then build another bait to address things you couldn't change on this one. Soon you'll end up with a killer bait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinyo Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 maybe u can try curved lip...it really help to increase action on my lure.. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
