Top Coat Issues

[T-Bone]

I have had a few issues this year with topcoats cracking and the only thing that I can think of is that moisture is seeping in thru a screw eye,

The blanks are mahogany sealed with propionate,painted with Createx and topped off with 5 coats of E-tex

The screw eyes are epoxied in after the topcoat is dry.

Whats your opinion?

Edited December 6, 2009 by T-Bone

[woodieb8]

I have had a few issues this year with topcoats cracking and the only thing that I can think of is that moisture is seeping in thru a screw eye,

The blanks are mahogany sealed with propionate,painted with Createx and topped off with 5 coats of E-tex

The screw eyes are epoxied in after the topcoat is dry.

Whats your opinion?

[BobP]

I can't see a way for it to happen except seepage through the screw holes (unless your wood is wet). I epoxy in hangers before clearcoating and coat around the hangers. A Dremel with a small drill bit cleans them out after curing.

Edited December 6, 2009 by BobP

[danderson]

I agree that you should epoxy in the screw eyes and then clearcoat. That is the only thing I see in what you said that may give you problems. That way you are coating over where you just cut through the clear coat and there won't be a seem of any kind for water to get through to the wood.

[jamie]

might be a contamination issue before the etex. how do you handle your baits before painting?

[Palmetto Balsa]

You should solve the problem 100% if you install your hardware in before you seal. That way you won't crack the epoxy when you put the screw eyes in. Epoxy is kind of brittle.

As soon as you get your humidity down to about 40% in your area, you might want to try topcoating one or two baits with the Propionate after you heat set your createx. The lower humidity will help the propionate dry crystal clear and it will have more of a factory finish, than the wet look of epoxy. The first topcoat dip should be a very quick in and out so the acetone doesn't bother the paints. Let that first dip dry good (an hour) then dip a few more 15 min. apart. Then you can build it up as much as you want.

Don't dip you crankbait lips in the propionate because the acetone will weaken them, epoxy them in at the end.

[T-Bone]

Thanks for the replies, although I am not real fond of the epoxied over eyes look that may be a solution. I was thinking it may have had something to do with the wood or pp.

If wet wood is the issue ,what is the ideal moisture content of wood and are there any tips on getting/keeping the wood dry?

Palmetto Bass- I do like the pp for sealing but for a topcoat I have problems with hazing and find it difficult to get the humidity down in the garage.

[FishThanks]

What type of wood is it? Some woods are way more prone to swelling damage then others . Basswood is real bad. I make baits out of White and Red Cedar and some Mahogany. These woods are way less prone to swelling from moisture. I use prop for a sealer and then automotive two part primer sealer for a prime coat. I do not seal the screw eye entry points. It is hard to tell from the picture if it is an adhesion problem or swelling is the bait split as well? I have been using adhesion promoter after the propionate is scuffed and before priming and tests went very well ths season. It is made for helping paint adhesion on flexible bumpers and available in spray cans, a can goes a long way. I fish for Muskie and big Muskie teeth puncture anything so the wood resitance to swelling and paint adhesion is critical.

[mark poulson]

You might try drilling for all your screws and hardware, and then soaking the lure in some kind of penetrating sealer, like Minwax Wood Hardener, before you seal with propionate. That way, the wood around the screws and hardware is sealed, too.

For small balsa cranks, I use runny Crazy glue in the screw eye holes, and as a sealer, too, to keep the weight down. It holds up fine, but I only fish for bass, which have very small teeth, and usually inhale the bait, instead of impaling it, like I've seen in pictures of Musky and Pike.

And I would install the screws before I top coat. It's a little bit of a pain to clean out the eyes, and extra step, but it is better than having the top coat fail.

[hazmail]

I thought I had (for me ) the perfect timber for my lures, I used MDF and sealed them with Prop then cleared them with Etex, this stuff worked really nice and the finish was the best I have ever done - problem was I was catching fish with them, but the lures were growing as I looked at them - they had a leak and I think the problem was the Prop (and me), I had not let it dry for long enough so it gassed off in the sun and broke the seal, never seen 'wood' expand so quickly.

I don't use MDF any more and I let the prop 'gas off' for about 36 hours before I do anything else with it, it's great stuff but you have to let the wood give up all the thinners before painting/sealing/top-coating. I really know how you feel, hang in there.pete

[BobP]

Wood moisture - you want it kiln dried if possible and stored away from damp. Good dry wood is something like 8% water content measured with a moisture probe (which I for one don't have). I buy wood from online suppliers, it arrives dry, and I keep it sealed in the original box. If your undercoating and waterproof topcoat is comprehensive and intact, the inside of the bait and the water outside will never meet unless there is leakage. I'd bet that was your problem. Bait finishes are like egg shells: they can withstand lots of external pressure but very little from inside. Any water absorption will swell the wood and easily delaminate any topcoat.

[T-Bone]

Thanks for all the info, I do beleive it's a seepage issue but i like others opinion, I just hate when these cracked baits come back to me. and I feel like a frick'in door knob when i can't explain for sure what happened except for to say "yep it's cracked"

Edited December 8, 2009 by T-Bone

[baitmaker2]

I have had a few issues this year with topcoats cracking and the only thing that I can think of is that moisture is seeping in thru a screw eye,

The blanks are mahogany sealed with propionate,painted with Createx and topped off with 5 coats of E-tex

The screw eyes are epoxied in after the topcoat is dry.

Whats your opinion?

I make bass lures and seldom ever use more than 2 coats of topcoat, 5 coats seems a lot. Normally a topcoat failure is due to moisture underneath it but you might also be getting some strange condition via too thick a topcoat.

When I have used screw eyes I always install them before I clearcoat and use a dremel tool and small bit to remove any cured topcoat.

Also the wood might have more of a moisture content than wood you previously used. I have never used mahogany and I am not familiar with how it would react with a higher than normal moisture content. I know from experience that I got some polar from Lowes and made some bass baits and the moisture in the polpar caused blistering in my paint and topcoat.