Toxicbaits Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I have been making wood baits for a few years now and i really like this site.. you guys are artists! I can do a decent but some of the baits I see here are crazy tight! Anyways i have been very successful in my bait designs from poppers and spooks to jointed swimbaits and gliders. Since I cant paint well I am really into how things done to the baits effect actions. I think I have a very good grasp on design but one thing frustrates the heck out of me. When I go to make fish shaped two piece wake baits about 40% of the time the baits doesnt swim well subsurface. I fab my own lips out of lexan and most work great but some baits just dont swim.. I have had some success heating and bending the lips but this doesnt always work either. Weighting and design/shape are the same. is it the lip angle and if so is the exact angle that critical? HELP PLEASE thanks so much. I will post some pics soon. Ceaser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaMan Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) I have been making wood baits for a few years now and i really like this site.. you guys are artists! I can do a decent but some of the baits I see here are crazy tight! Anyways i have been very successful in my bait designs from poppers and spooks to jointed swimbaits and gliders. Since I cant paint well I am really into how things done to the baits effect actions. I think I have a very good grasp on design but one thing frustrates the heck out of me. When I go to make fish shaped two piece wake baits about 40% of the time the baits doesnt swim well subsurface. I fab my own lips out of lexan and most work great but some baits just dont swim.. I have had some success heating and bending the lips but this doesnt always work either. Weighting and design/shape are the same. is it the lip angle and if so is the exact angle that critical? HELP PLEASE thanks so much. I will post some pics soon. Ceaser pics would be great but one thing that i find, if i understand what it is you are saying is that, is that with wake baits of fish profile the lip angle does matter to some effect. Often times when making a wake bait the size of the lure matters, the weight and where the line tie is placed matters. could you give us some dimensions of the type of wake bait. i don't believe that exact angle is nececsarry, what are you making them out of? also what type of joint are you using it is important that the bait should have two vertical connections weather it be a pin and tennon or two vertical screw eyes. also with regard to the angle of the lip if the angle is perfectly 90 degrees perpendicular to the horizontal line that runs through the midle of your bait it may not swim under water. i don't know pics would help Edited January 2, 2010 by DeltaMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxicbaits Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 pics would be great but one thing that i find, if i understand what it is you are saying is that, is that with wake baits of fish profile the lip angle does matter to some effect. Often times when making a wake bait the size of the lure matters, the weight and where the line tie is placed matters. could you give us some dimensions of the type of wake bait. i don't believe that exact angle is nececsarry, what are you making them out of? also what type of joint are you using it is important that the bait should have two vertical connections weather it be a pin and tennon or two vertical screw eyes. also with regard to the angle of the lip if the angle is perfectly 90 degrees perpendicular to the horizontal line that runs through the midle of your bait it may not swim under water. i don't know pics would help The lip angle is not 90 degrees. To tell you the truth.... from the baits that work and the ones that dont work I cant see a visual difference in angle. I am using port orford cedar.. great wood so far.. 7inch baits... similar to the japanese monster jack baits. three weight placements.. one behind lip one behind front treble one infront of rear treble on second piece. Two piece baits about 2 ounces. 5/8inch wide on belly tapered to the which is about 1/2nch. 1.75-2" belly to back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I don't build lots of swimbaits but here's my I think the lip on a jointed bait mostly has to drive only the first body segment. The rear segment(s) follow along undriven by the lip, provided your hinge allows them to swing freely. That's why you see pretty small lips on shallow running jointed swimbaits. The Strike King King Shad is an example: very small lip area set at 45 degrees swims a fairly large (1+ oz) 5" bait. You also need to think about how you divide the bait into segments. About 60/40 has worked OK for me with 2 segments. If you want it to dive, you need to have a lip angle way less than 90 degrees. 75-90 degree angles are for wakebaits. A good starting angle is 45 degrees on a bait that you want to both swim and dive. And you want the line tie to be sitting right above the lip for max oscillation. Lastly, think about the amount of ballast. The lighter the bait, the more lively the action and the less lip it will take to drive it. As long as it stays vertical in the water while swimming without excessive roll, the ballast is sufficient. I trying to be specific about your particular bait, these are just general considerations. You can't know in advance how the design features of a swimbait will work until you throw it in the lake and try it. Every feature affects all other design features, so you have to take you best shot and be willing to change things until it does what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxicbaits Posted January 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 I don't build lots of swimbaits but here's my I think the lip on a jointed bait mostly has to drive only the first body segment. The rear segment(s) follow along undriven by the lip, provided your hinge allows them to swing freely. That's why you see pretty small lips on shallow running jointed swimbaits. The Strike King King Shad is an example: very small lip area set at 45 degrees swims a fairly large (1+ oz) 5" bait. You also need to think about how you divide the bait into segments. About 60/40 has worked OK for me with 2 segments. If you want it to dive, you need to have a lip angle way less than 90 degrees. 75-90 degree angles are for wakebaits. A good starting angle is 45 degrees on a bait that you want to both swim and dive. And you want the line tie to be sitting right above the lip for max oscillation. Lastly, think about the amount of ballast. The lighter the bait, the more lively the action and the less lip it will take to drive it. As long as it stays vertical in the water while swimming without excessive roll, the ballast is sufficient. I trying to be specific about your particular bait, these are just general considerations. You can't know in advance how the design features of a swimbait will work until you throw it in the lake and try it. Every feature affects all other design features, so you have to take you best shot and be willing to change things until it does what you want. Thanks... i need to try moving the line tie more. I think I may be inconsistent with that and maybe try to move it closer to the lip. I am lucky i live on the water(ca delta) so i get to try my baits rigth off the dock straight out of the shop. Weighing adjustments havent seemed to do much.. the hinge design works well... i guess it just the lip thats getting me. Thanks so much I will try that line tie postition change and see how it goes. also I dont think I have tried 45 degrees.. all in between 45 and 90 maybe a angle change towards the 45 will help to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaMan Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) Thanks... i need to try moving the line tie more. I think I may be inconsistent with that and maybe try to move it closer to the lip. I am lucky i live on the water(ca delta) so i get to try my baits rigth off the dock straight out of the shop. Weighing adjustments havent seemed to do much.. the hinge design works well... i guess it just the lip thats getting me. Thanks so much I will try that line tie postition change and see how it goes. also I dont think I have tried 45 degrees.. all in between 45 and 90 maybe a angle change towards the 45 will help to. My wakebaits/shallow divers are 7 1/2 inches long with an a eighty degree angle on the lip( the lip is about an inch wide and inch long) they are belly weighted with lead and will dive to a foot on a medium retrieve. rayburn guy is right about the lip driving only the front section with the back sections following. you live on the CA Delta eh how's it been going out there? Edited January 2, 2010 by DeltaMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxicbaits Posted January 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 My wakebaits/shallow divers are 7 1/2 inches long with an a eighty degree angle on the lip( the lip is about an inch wide and inch long) they are belly weighted with lead and will dive to a foot on a medium retrieve. rayburn guy is right about the lip driving only the front section with the back sections following. you live on the CA Delta eh how's it been going out there? Ca Delta is always a good place to be! Slow really but this is the time of year i go out with swimbaits and only get bit 50% of the time.. and get one or two fish but there usually good ones. they eat a triple trout style bait pretty good right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaMan Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 Ca Delta is always a good place to be! Slow really but this is the time of year i go out with swimbaits and only get bit 50% of the time.. and get one or two fish but there usually good ones. they eat a triple trout style bait pretty good right now. Really... Some of my swimbaits look very similar to a 22nd century.. I'll have to go out soon. Are the fish deep,shallow in the tules? Where are you finding 'em? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxicbaits Posted January 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Really... Some of my swimbaits look very similar to a 22nd century.. I'll have to go out soon. Are the fish deep,shallow in the tules? Where are you finding 'em? middle of the day usually... I usually look for normal big fish spots... weed flats next to currrent or a drop. the window is small... i like the low switch.. hour before on the outside edge or in the high just rigth over the top of the weed beds.. reeling real slow and steady. i think the bites i get are fish that move up and eat then go back to wherever they hide the rest of the day. but a sunny sky with a breeze... money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainryan Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 @Toxicbaits can I just dig up this thread a minute. Now your THE baits to get. Love to see your grind pay off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxicbaits Posted December 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 haha this was a flash back here. That bent lip is still the DEAL BOI! hahahahahahThe fix for the swim was so simple stupid I cant believe i didn't figure it out back then. I think I did right after this post. Flashback friday FO SHO @mountainryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
