Paint Safety Mask / Respirator Advice

[Kris]

I know this subject has been talked about on the side in other threads but I was wondering if some advice can be given on what type of mask one needs for painting.

Right now I mainly shoot water based paints like Createx, Polytranspar, Wildlife & some Model Master Acrylics. I was thinking of getting one that is safe for lacquers, etc. in case I shoot lacquer.

How do I tell if the mask/respirator is for water based applications and/or solvent based applications? Is there any type of safety approval code that distinguishes them?

Thanks.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Kris

[clamboni]

I know this subject has been talked about on the side in other threads but I was wondering if some advice can be given on what type of mask one needs for painting.

Right now I mainly shoot water based paints like Createx, Polytranspar, Wildlife & some Model Master Acrylics. I was thinking of getting one that is safe for lacquers, etc. in case I shoot lacquer.

How do I tell if the mask/respirator is for water based applications and/or solvent based applications? Is there any type of safety approval code that distinguishes them?

Thanks.

If you're spraying water based paints, you'll be fine with any dust mask that will trap the particles. If you want to go with a respirator, it'll be a HEPA filter.

For lacquers, you need an organic vapor cartridge on it. It'll say it right on the package..........you can buy a respirator with changeable cartriges, buy a couple of each so you're only using the organic vapor ones when you need them. They're more expensive that HEPA.

[Frank]

You can call these guys and they will laed you in the right direction. http://www.tcpglobal.com/autobodydepot/sasresp.aspx

[grim7989]

unless you are going to be spraying a good amount of lacquer then you realy dont need a resperator you just need a fan to pull the over spray away but if you want a mask 3m makes one sherwin williams will sell them there around 35 to 40 bucks in my area the catrdiges are charcoal based and for singles cost around ten bucks you wont need to change it to often the instructions say every sixty hours our so but i spray houses for a living and sometimes the mask sits in the truck for weeks on end and there still good they also will usualy have a pre filter wich catches bigger particules in the air like i said unless you are spraying a ton you realy dont need one you just need good ventaliation

this is a quick search heres one from sears http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05005945000P?vName=Computers%20&%20Electronics=&cName=OfficeProducts&sName=Safety%20&%20Security=&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IAx20090815x000001&aff=Y

Edited January 15, 2010 by grim7989

[Frank]

I know if you asked about a mask it means you care about your health and that is good. A really good hepa filter type is the 3m #07181 it has the best rating(p100) you can have without going to a fresh air system. Buy the right size and it is actually very comfortable for long periods of use. One note on the rating of the masks the number following the letter is the percent of effective coverage. 100 is good 95 is more common double straps go with a higher number historically.

With the solvent type paint use a mask like I posted earlier one with organic cartriges. Most have a pre filter that is a seperate piece on the outside. Now one important note on these is once you open the package the life span of the cartridges is started so keep it in a bag to keep it out of the air. Most of these come with one to keep it in so dont throw it away. And masks rated for other type of chemicals might not be a good choice. Do alot of research and make the right choice and remember we are just people on the internet trying to help. All paints are NOT the same. Hope this helps you. Frank

[Kris]

Thanks for the info/advice guys. I figured just a good air supply that would sweep the particles away would be enough ... but I'm looking at taking that extra step to protect my health and lungs as I do more and more painting.

I looked around at places like Lowes and found one that had P100 rating so if I understand that would be good enough to protect against what I'm painting with now ... BUT not any type of solvent based paints?

Also saw a few that had organic filters like was mentioned and they were with respirators that were listed as Dual Cartridge Respirators. So if it is a dual cartridge then it propably has a organic filter and mention it on the pkg?

Thanks.

[A-Mac]

I would say just go with the best one that home depot offers and you should be good. They should be the carbon (organic) filters. I use mine religiously now when doing all my paint work AND resin pouring. I figured that if I'm better off wearing the good filter for all painting AND resin stuff , then my lungs are worth the few extra bucks. I use to not wear a mask when shooting createx. I was shooting pearls one day with the sun shining through the window, the entire room glistened with the metal flakes (even with a fan going). I coincidentally had a cough getting progressively worse at the time. Connected the dots, started wearing the best mask I could, and my cough gradually went away. I also shoot auto paints too, so I needed a proper mask for that to begin with. Coming from a family of auto body and paint mechanics and seeing a trend of lung cancer I figured I would do what I could to avoid that road.

My , a mask is the cheapest health insurance you can buy.

[grim7989]

. I also shoot auto paints too, so I needed a proper mask for that to begin with. Coming from a family of auto body and paint mechanics and seeing a trend of lung cancer I figured I would do what I could to avoid that road.

My , a mask is the cheapest health insurance you can buy.

If you shoot any other auto paint besides lacquer then you are dealing with isocyanates and there is no mask on the market that stops them other than a fresh air supply just letting you know not trying to start any trouble

[Frank]

If you shoot any other auto paint besides lacquer then you are dealing with isocyanates and there is no mask on the market that stops them other than a fresh air supply just letting you know not trying to start any trouble

Start trouble I dont think so, it is good to discuss things sometimes just to make you think about it totally. And not all auto paints have isocyanates in them just the two part products like the clear coats not the base coats. And you are right the only way to protect yourself from them is a fresh air system and to completely cover yourself with a chemical suit gloves shoe covers and a sock on your head because they can be absorbed thruogh your skin or eyes. Auto paints are in a transition to change to water based/bourne so this will hopefully soon be a topic of the past.

Kris if it is rated for organic IT WILL say on the CARTRIDGE. Not all dual cartrige respirators are for organic solvents. So read very carefully but it should pretty clear.

[Kris]

I can see where this would be pretty simple for guys who shoot paint for a living ... but after researching it gets kind of confusing ... at least for me.

Just so I'm clear on the subject ...

A respirator that is rated at P100 WOULD protect against any type of water based paints?

If I go with a respirator that has an organic filter also then I will be even more protected even if I shoot the occasional lacquer paint?

Sound about right.

Going to try buy one today.

Thanks again for the input .... been a good discussion.

[68KingFisher]

I use one rated for organic vapors.....I keep it stored in the plastic bag it came in.....my masks last along time doing it that way.....I use to replace the charcoal filters on them, but know days it seems they are cheap enough to just replace the whole mask......I judge mine by can I smell paint with it on??....If so replace it.

The isocyanides are usually in the catalyst.....so if you add cat to your basecoat you'd want protection from that....and all automotive clearcoats use catalyst so of course be careful there.

Also what was said about the iso's getting into your system thru your skin is right on.....it can also get in thru your eye's......thats why guys that use the stuff daily like car painters, wear shoot suits that cover them from head to toe and a fresh air full face mask.....they want protection from the chemicals, but also so they don't have stuff coming off their bodies/clothing, and landing in the new clearcoat.

For waterbased stuff only, you could probably get by with those paper masks...but they are not that great, and i'd highly recommend something better....like a real resperator...lol.

Edited January 16, 2010 by 68KingFisher

[Frank]

I use one rated for organic vapors.....I keep it stored in the plastic bag it came in.....my masks last along time doing it that way.....I use to replace the charcoal filters on them, but know days it seems they are cheap enough to just replace the whole mask......I judge mine by can I smell paint with it on??....If so replace it.

The isocyanides are usually in the catalyst.....so if you add cat to your basecoat you'd want protection from that....and all automotive clearcoats use catalyst so of course be careful there.

Also what was said about the iso's getting into your system thru your skin is right on.....it can also get in thru your eye's......thats why guys that use the stuff daily like car painters, wear shoot suits that cover them from head to toe and a fresh air full face mask.....they want protection from the chemicals, but also so they don't have stuff coming off their bodies/clothing, and landing in the new clearcoat.

For waterbased stuff only, you could probably get by with those paper masks...but they are not that great, and i'd highly recommend something better....like a real resperator...lol.

Not to highjack the thread but what base coat has a cat in it KF. I dont ever remember seeing one. All water here now so not a big deal now. The clear is the same though and protection is at its highest at our shop. Clear here is like syrup and reducing is at a minium. Good to see same imput that makes good sence also.

[Kris]

Purchased the following 3M respirator ....

Respirator

If I read the labels correctly on the pkging it came with organic filters and P100 rated.

It didn't come with a bag so would it be ok to keep it in a large zip-loc to keep the filters from drying out?

[68KingFisher]

Frank, the first time I used a catalyst in basecoat was when took on a large graphic project on the sides of a semi truck....the guy asking me to do the artwork was a good friend of mine and he had much more automotive painting experience then I had at the time, and he suggested using the PPG products he was familier with. Since the project called for a fair amount of airbrushing on top of the solid base, and I didn't know if I could do it and clearcoat within the 24hr window PPG required, the paint rep recommended that I add a catalyst to the base, and to any midcoat clear that I was planning to use during the course of the project should it run into several days....which it did.....I was new at this and did what they recommended without any problems. Since that time i've learned its easier and wiser for me to base and clearcoat 99% of my projects(motorcycles)....then come back and add any airbrushing or pinstriping...then clearcoat again....the results are much better and I have a buffer zone to work on should I have a problem during the artwork phase....lol.

Kris, you can definitely use a ziplock to keep your mask stored in.....large freezer bags work great for that....smaller Ziplocks work well for keeping rolls of foils or masking tape stored in so they don't collect dirt and debri along the sticky edge of the roll.

[Frank]

Thanks KF one reason that PPG did not fit in our production dont need the window.

Kris now that you have a respirator the p100 rating is only good if the mask seals real good to your face so facial hair must be kept to a minium so the seal is as good as it can be. Glad to see personal safety is in your mind alot of people dont give it a second thought.

[68KingFisher]

Frank, in the past 10yrs i've thrown the so called "window" out the window so to speak....hahaha....I have done projects that literally took months from the basecoat to the clearcoat and never had one delamination problem with any brand of paint I've used..."knock on wood"...and I won't even mention the taboo stuff such as mixing PPG, Dupont and HoK together within the same project....lol....Shhhhhh.

[Mags]

Any recommendations for spraying auto clear coat safely, other than a $600 air supplied respirator. I wear a respirator and keep it off my skin (gloves, long sleeve shirt etc.), but what else can be done? I also shoot at low pressure. I've only recently starting using auto clear, but this post is making me wonder if anyone except a body shop can truly spray it safely.

[Frank]

Any recommendations for spraying auto clear coat safely, other than a $600 air supplied respirator. I wear a respirator and keep it off my skin (gloves, long sleeve shirt etc.), but what else can be done? I also shoot at low pressure. I've only recently starting using auto clear, but this post is making me wonder if anyone except a body shop can truly spray it safely.

Safely NO but most people think it wont hurt. Think about it it can be absorbed through skin. If that is not a deturant then I dont have another arguement. Second thought to the people that dont use one at all, this is a product that is also moisture cured. When you breath in the particals they will actually cure in your lungs sounds great right. If you must and I dont advise it but get a full face respirator so at least you eyes are covered and cover all your skin you can with chemical proof wear. It is a good product to use but the safety comcerns far out weigh the good at least to me. Frank

[68KingFisher]

Any recommendations for spraying auto clear coat safely, other than a $600 air supplied respirator. I wear a respirator and keep it off my skin (gloves, long sleeve shirt etc.), but what else can be done? I also shoot at low pressure. I've only recently starting using auto clear, but this post is making me wonder if anyone except a body shop can truly spray it safely.

If your already wearing a good quality respirator with long sleeves and gloves your basicly doing about the same as most backyard painters that paint cars/trucks or motorcycles from his family garage. Your actually one up on me, cause I can't do squat in gloves so I never wear them......I do have a shoot suit and I will say that its a definite step up from just wearing long sleeves....its about like puttin on a space suit...lol....we'll, maybe not that bad.....but it is a very tight weave material and it does offer much better protection from overspray then regular street clothes.....They are not very expensive and might be worth looking into if you shoot much clear, or if you just want that added piece of mind.

[A-Mac]

hmmm... its amazing what you can learn! No wonder the big lure companies have the Chinese do all the "dirty" work. I take it that osha and epa type agencies don't really exist their.

Good to know about the mandatory fresh air supply for some paints/ clears too. I was just starting to want to get more involved with auto air stuff, but I think I will hold off until I have a better air circulation system.

Good info, very good thread. So Cheers! Lets drink to our health!

[Mags]

If your already wearing a good quality respirator with long sleeves and gloves your basicly doing about the same as most backyard painters that paint cars/trucks or motorcycles from his family garage. Your actually one up on me, cause I can't do squat in gloves so I never wear them......I do have a shoot suit and I will say that its a definite step up from just wearing long sleeves....its about like puttin on a space suit...lol....we'll, maybe not that bad.....but it is a very tight weave material and it does offer much better protection from overspray then regular street clothes.....They are not very expensive and might be worth looking into if you shoot much clear, or if you just want that added piece of mind.

I think I'll get a suit and head sock in addition to the respirator. I did some research on isocyanates and they are extremely dangerous. Lots of cases of people having bad reactions to them or even dying from overexposure.

[Stringjam]

I spray auto clear for my lure finish. I take all the normal precautions (full-face respirator, chemical gloves, skin coverage, etc.)

I've been kicking around the idea of building a spray box - - similar to the design of a sand-blaster, but better sealed, and with a high-flow air venting system (sort of like a little professional paint booth just for your hands.)

Since I'm spraying lures (not cars) I don't see any real need to be exposed at all to the substance when all I'm doing is holding a little lure on a stick and spinning it around.

Am I missing something, or would creating such a box be a (relatively) simple solution to the problem?

The biggest hurdle I see would be dealing with the sprayed lure - my thought was just a simple little clothesline-pulley type of system.......making the box long enough to shuttle the bait down a little farther if you had multiple lures to spray.

[Mags]

I spray auto clear for my lure finish. I take all the normal precautions (full-face respirator, chemical gloves, skin coverage, etc.)

I've been kicking around the idea of building a spray box - - similar to the design of a sand-blaster, but better sealed, and with a high-flow air venting system (sort of like a little professional paint booth just for your hands.)

Since I'm spraying lures (not cars) I don't see any real need to be exposed at all to the substance when all I'm doing is holding a little lure on a stick and spinning it around.

Am I missing something, or would creating such a box be a (relatively) simple solution to the problem?

The biggest hurdle I see would be dealing with the sprayed lure - my thought was just a simple little clothesline-pulley type of system.......making the box long enough to shuttle the bait down a little farther if you had multiple lures to spray.

A paint booth of some kind would move a lot of the overspray away from you. I am in the process of making one like the one on www.fishcarver.com. A small one would work, but why not a bigger one for all your work.

[Stringjam]

A paint booth of some kind would move a lot of the overspray away from you. I am in the process of making one like the one on www.fishcarver.com. A small one would work, but why not a bigger one for all your work.

I already have a fairly potent vent "booth" for painting......I'm referring specifically to auto-clear shooting, which requires high levels of protection whether you have the paint booth or not.

A shooting "box" as I described would isolate the stuff from getting anywhere near you or your working environment.

[Frank]

I already have a fairly potent vent "booth" for painting......I'm referring specifically to auto-clear shooting, which requires high levels of protection whether you have the paint booth or not.

A shooting "box" as I described would isolate the stuff from getting anywhere near you or your working environment.

Ya I am with you on that one. An old bead blasting cabinet with the gloves on the front to reach through. It has air plumed in and a fan but it needs to be changed to a sealed type unit designed for flammable materials. Then make a side door that leads to a box to hang dry the ones that are drying .All do able if you can find an old bead blast cabinet. They have a window on top that could be covered with a tear off material so you get a fresh view every time you shoot. A small filter on the exhaust side to trap the solids and you are in business. Great thought. Frank