Swim Bait Joints

[fivefishwish]

Im looking to use some sort of woven cloth for the hinges in my swim baits. Naturally, i need something that is both durable and water resistant. I first looked into Kevlar. BIG mistake, cause if you've never priced it before, take it from me, VERY expensive!

I thought that somewhere in my search on TU for another issue, i found someone who has done a similar thing. Unfortunately i can not find it again. If anyone has an idea on what i could use it would be greatly appreciated.

[jrhopkins]

Im looking to use some sort of woven cloth for the hinges in my swim baits. Naturally, i need something that is both durable and water resistant. I first looked into Kevlar. BIG mistake, cause if you've never priced it before, take it from me, VERY expensive!

I thought that somewhere in my search on TU for another issue, i found someone who has done a similar thing. Unfortunately i can not find it again. If anyone has an idea on what i could use it would be greatly appreciated.

i originally was using kevlar string for the hinging system but ran out of what i had got for free. the problem with any material is wicking action of the adhesive you use to join the two halves together. i had problems with this and found it to be a lot of work. you might try some fiberglass cloth or maybe some ripstop nylon.

[diemai]

@ fivefishwish

I was thinking about using car seatbelts from the scrabyard , but I guess , that these might be too stiff ,...........nevertheless there should be similar straps around for different purposes like carrying loads on a crane or fixing loads on the roof rack of a car , etc . ?

Just a vague idea of mine , never went further into it !

good luck , diemai

[fivefishwish]

maybe i should dismiss the idea and come up with something else.

so now my question becomes, what can i use for a hinge that is light weight? ill be making smaller swim baits, like 3 to 5 inches and weight is definitely a factor.

[.dsaavedra.]

maybe i should dismiss the idea and come up with something else.

so now my question becomes, what can i use for a hinge that is light weight? ill be making smaller swim baits, like 3 to 5 inches and weight is definitely a factor.

get some 19 or 20 gauge stainless steel wire and make your own hinges.

[fivefishwish]

let me try to further explain my delema. im looking to make a smaller (3-5 inches) swim bait that has multiple smaller segments. similar to what you would see on the lucky craft live pointer. having these smaller segments makes it very difficult to use any kind of hinge pin or large or heavy hardware.

im not sure what lucky craft uses in there "live" series of baits as i do not own any, but my initial thought was some sort of webbing or woven cloth that i could glue each side of each segment to. maybe this is going to be harder then i thought to figure out. i just assumed that if LC can do it, why cant i?

[baileybassman]

let me try to further explain my delema. im looking to make a smaller (3-5 inches) swim bait that has multiple smaller segments. similar to what you would see on the lucky craft live pointer. having these smaller segments makes it very difficult to use any kind of hinge pin or large or heavy hardware.

im not sure what lucky craft uses in there "live" series of baits as i do not own any, but my initial thought was some sort of webbing or woven cloth that i could glue each side of each segment to. maybe this is going to be harder then i thought to figure out. i just assumed that if LC can do it, why cant i?

Lucky Craft uses titanium wire im not sure how they do it as i dont want to tear my 19 dollar bait apart but if you want some detailed pictures i could post some maybe that would help you

[fivefishwish]

Lucky Craft uses titanium wire im not sure how they do it as i dont want to tear my 19 dollar bait apart but if you want some detailed pictures i could post some maybe that would help you

i dont wanna ask too much or be bothersome but since u put it out there it would be very helpful!

[jrhopkins]

let me try to further explain my delema. im looking to make a smaller (3-5 inches) swim bait that has multiple smaller segments. similar to what you would see on the lucky craft live pointer. having these smaller segments makes it very difficult to use any kind of hinge pin or large or heavy hardware.

im not sure what lucky craft uses in there "live" series of baits as i do not own any, but my initial thought was some sort of webbing or woven cloth that i could glue each side of each segment to. maybe this is going to be harder then i thought to figure out. i just assumed that if LC can do it, why cant i?

the biggest problem you'll have with any kind of webbing/material is sealing the bait to keep water from swelling it. unless you use pvc like i do and then water is not a problem. do some expiementing. most of us here have done hours and hours of R & D to get where we are with our baits.

don't rule out stainless wire as it will not be heavy enough to effect the swimming action. this bait ( the one on top ) is 4" long and swims great. start with a larger bait and work your way down to smaller sizes once you have a technique.

[baileybassman]

Happy to be able to help i know the pics are kinda big but i left them that way so you could hopefulley get the detail.

If you need any more let me know.

[diemai]

@ baileybassman

Thanks for posting these pictures , very interesting indeed !

I remember to have seen a video in here some longer time ago , where sucha bait jointed with some kinda cord or cable like this one was displayed in a swimming pool , ....if my memory serves me right , it was made by one of our Swedish members .

Ever since watching that vid I've been cracking my brain how to anchor such cable(I suppose it is some kinda stranded steel leader material)into the front and rear section of a bait , never found a good solution for myself so far .

This swimbait is constructed very smart , .........I like the idea of the the thin ridges on either section to act as spacers and bearing points the same time , .......on a homemade bait jointed this way one might have to utilize small metal or plastic beads instead for the same purpose , which would be rigged onto the connecting cables inbetween either section .

greetz , diemai

Edited January 18, 2010 by diemai

[mark poulson]

I've made some 3 1/2" four piece lures.

I only had a hook hanger in the first section, so there was very little strain on the hinges. That allowed me to use fine sst cotter pins and sst spinnerbait wire pins for the hinges.

I also use PVC (thanks again John) so waterproofing is not an issue, and I can seat the cotterpins by bending the tabs double, and inserting them into drill holes that are filled with gap filling super glue. The hinging system is very light, so I was able to make floating and sinking versions.

And they are quick to make, using accerator on the crazy glue, and rattle can paints, including primer. A hair dryer will speed up the drying process, and I've made lures one day, in about an hour, and fished them the next.

[fivefishwish]

Thanks everyone for your advice and thank you so much for the pics bailey!!! that pretty much solved my problem.

we can now lose this thread to the archives as i will search for the materials.

[.dsaavedra.]

maybe try braided fishing line? you could tie bulky knots in the ends to anchor it in epoxy inside the bait

[diemai]

@ DSV

I had also thought about utilizing some kind of thin cord made of artificial fibres like nylon , probably the kind that bricklayers use to achieve straight and perpendicular brickwalls , ......this stuff appears to be quite tough .

But still I wonder , whether toothy fish like pike or muskie could not snap it in the worst case ?

greetz , diemai

[mark poulson]

Dieter,

That const. string is really strong and tough. I think it's nylon. I've had some stuck in poured concrete that was a real bear to get out. It's probably a very good option.

I just wonder about the wicking problem JR mentioned.

Maybe some candle wax dripped on the string between the sections, while the lure halves are still open, but after the string has been "tacked" in place with some crazy glue.

Or some light cooking oil, brushed onto those parts. Neither one would affect the action of the lure, and should be neutral in terms of smell for the fish.

[diemai]

@ mark poulson

Mark , I have never thought about bonding that cord with the lure sections !

My mind is rather set on glueing in some kinda tubing pieces lengthwise through the single sections , one on top and on on bottom , so that I could aligne the lure segments onto two single lengths of cord or one long surrounding cord piece passing through both tubings , these mainly serving to reinforce the holes against wear and tear caused by the cord .

As a bearing I would also rig a small bead onto the cord inbetween each of the single sections .

I only haven't thought about a solution of how to anchor the cord piece(s) into the first and/or last section yet .

As for the hook hangers at the belly side , I've thought to make them from wire bent into a "figure 8" shape and let the bottom tubing , made from brass in this case , pass through the inner eye of the "figure 8" , thus acting like a pin to lock it in place , ........all epoxied , off course .

Your solution of glueing the cord inbetween two section halves sounds a lot easier , but would only be practical for PVC material , not wood , I guess ?

just some theory .........greetz , Dieter

[.dsaavedra.]

i don't really see what you mean with this whole talk of tubing. the way i figured i'd do it is just tie big bulky knots in the ends of the cord, and anchor this inside the lure halves on the first and last pieces of the lure with epoxy. i don't think teeth would be TOO much of a problem because with this method you could get the joints very close together, but then again i don't really fish for pike and i've only caught a few pickerel so i don't really know what they're capable of. i think i'm going to try to make a small swimbait with braided fishing line. i'll let you guys know how it goes.

[Piscivorous Pike]

Interesting I stumble on this today as I was working on swim bait hinges too but for a soft plastic hinged swim bait.

I am making a Javallon or Lake Fork Magic Shad Swim Bait. The originals use a stiff hard crumbly plastic. I replaced the plastic for a hinge with fiberglass window screen to fit between the body sections and to be the hinge. I used a template and cut them from screen and put it in the mold before pouring. It works I think even better than just having plastic for the flexing hinge.

The style is a Javallon from Japan, and I believe the Lake Fork Magic Shad is a licensed copy as the details on the lure and some of the packaging is the same as the Javallon. I used the Magic Shad as a template. They swim with the same roll and side to side like a cross between a Sebile Magic Swimmer and BBZ-1. Hooked with a swim bait hook with little or no weight or nose hooked they swim. Look them up under Google, Javallon video.

The Lake Fork Magic Shad is a stiff plastic and the hinge is very thin. The plastic crumbles when hooked and getting it out of a new POP mold it came apart. I used Bear's soft de-gassed plastic and it comes out of the mold. It is so soft however I think it will tear up on fish. I recommend making the mold from RTV, but I used POP. These soft plastic copies swim at a slower retrieve than the original.

I do not know if this will help you, but the screen can substitute for your fabric idea.

[diemai]

@ DSV

Basically I mean to rig the single lure sections like beads on a string , and as I do not use PVC but wood , I need to seal the inside of all bores against water sepage , .....and this is , what the tubing is for .

This water sepage problem is also the reason , why had never come to a practical solution on anchoring the connecting cords to the front and rear part ,

Epoxying bulky knots inbetween the halves of those sections might still lead to water sepage at the entry locations of the cord , I think , .......but probably well worth a try .

With that construction string one would be quite safe against pike teeth , I guess ,..... but I would not trust any braid , not matter how thick it gets .

@ Piscivorous Pike

I am not familiar with that stuff "fibreglass window screening" ,..... guess , that it is to keep bugs out of the house ?

We have similiar over here as well , but obviously made of plastic , so it won't hold up(at least that it is the only kind , that I saw so far , ......don't use it up here) .

But sounds like a good idea , provided the stuff is rigid enough .

greetz , diemai

[hazmail]

WOW all these ideas, and along the lines of what John (JRhopkins) is saying, it's one thing thinking and talking about it, but with swim baits, it's another thing doing it, and you are going to have to do some !!

The fine S/S leader cable works and would work even better on a multiple jointer like the one pictured - to hold it in the blank use some crimps normally used with this stuff (one in each joint worked for me) - also try 'Velcro' strap, just shave the fuzz off it, it's very strong and does not fray, just epoxy it in flat.

As stated with wood capiliary action is a real problem with some of the options, but use PVC foam and these problems disappear, but what reappears is the buoyancy problem, but the more junk you add to the blank, the less buoyancy there will be - from what I have seen, getting the lure near neutral saves a lot of frustration and they seem to swim better, mine did anyway. There is some pictures of these two types of hinging in my gallery somewhere - also if you do a search there is a thread with about 8 pages of more hinge ideas, it was posted about the middle of last year (I think). pete

[Hughesy]

These are made with a non rip nylon. Seems plenty tough for bass. Bass Pro now makes them and they are using something very similar Kevlar.

[fivefishwish]

Hughesy, what r the bodies made of?

[Hughesy]

The proto types I turned into Bass Pro were wood. They now make them out of plastic.

[lockjaw]

I've made swimbaits using 200lb braid for hinges. The biggest problem I ran into was the clear coat process. There is just no way to keep the lure from flopping every which way and also no way to avoid the top coat traveling onto the braid. With metal hinges you have some small control, plus removing clear coat from metal hinges is quite easy - just get something small enough to fit into the gaps and scrape away. With braid, one small mistake and it's bye-bye hinge. If you construct your lure with a product that is water resistant from the start, that would help alleviate the final part of the lure process.