Parma (waterbased Acrylics) And Dn... Help!

[SlowFISH]

Hey all....

Here's the deal.... I destroyed a few ratttlebaits I painted using Parma (Fascolor acrylic paints) by dipping them in DN. The baits I destroyed had been painted weeks ago so I can't imagine they weren't fully dried.... two of them were painted over Thanksgiving weekend and have been hanging in the open air in a warm part of my basement!!!

I've already tried a few tests (after learning my lesson) by heat setting the paint, but even after doing this they still wrinkle/run within a minute of being dipped and hung. I think I have it solved using a coat of Createx Gloss Clear and heat setting that as well, along with dipping the lure and getting it out of the jar and hung as fast as possible...

So... you guys using acrylics and dipping.... what are you using to protect the paint or am I doing something wrong I don't realize? I thought about thinning the DN a bit to get it watery and real thin, then dipping a 2nd time after a couple days or drying.

Any help would be great... thx.

J.

[klail]

I had that problem in the beginning using Createx paints. I think my problem was two fold. I was using a solvent base primer or base coat before painting with Createx. I also think on the layered coats of acrylic I was not heat setting the paint properly. I found that by stop using the "other primer" and prime with Createx opaque base and heat setting each coat reaching around 125° at the surface for a few minutes and have not had the "wrinkle" finish since. I am no expert but I am sure some more experienced around here will be along shortly.

[68KingFisher]

I use to paint alot of RC bodies and used mostly Parma and Createx paints.....Parma was said to be made for the lexan RC bodies,so I would imagine it'd work well on plastic lures and probably as good on wood. My first questions when dealing with any wrinkling problems are "What was your prep, and what primer was used".....many times wrinking can be from poor prep or primer incompatibility problems.....in the case of urethane clears, applying coats too heavily and too close together can cause some of the same problems your experiencing.

[BobP]

I've never used Parma so don't know if that's the problem but I use a mix of brands. I'm a little suspicious of what's UNDER the acrylic paint - did you "prime" or undercoat the bait with a solvent based product before shooting the acrylics? I undercoat with epoxy or propionate dissolved in acetone, followed by a basecoat white acrylic and colors.

I dip baits in the DN, take them out slowly, then hang them. DN is already pretty thin. I don't think you want to add solvent and do multiple dips. Extra dips are when bad things tend to happen with DN in my experience. I've tried 2nd dips after 24 hrs. They usually result in a few blemishes in the finish.

[mark poulson]

I dip in SC9000 urethane, and don't have any problems, providing I heat set all of my paint coats, including the rattle can primer.

[SlowFISH]

What I'm doing...

• I'm using all Parma paints.... no other brands in the case of these baits... so there shoudlnt' be a compatibilty issue there.
  
• I'm painting directly onto the lure body, they are white... I'm lightly sanding with 600 grit to get a bit of grip for the paint.
  
• The wrinkling is ONLY after I dip the bait in DN... it looks good for 20 seconds, then starts wrinkling.
  

I tested a few lastnight that I sprayed with Createx Clear Coat before dipping.... so far they look great.... so I probably have a solution to my problem, but it's a little annoying to clear them and hope I have enough coverage to insure I don't ruin the bait.

Also... the Parma paints seem very sensitive.... they are supposed to resist RC fuels... but if you lightly rub the paint with a cloth that has water / alcohol / or any solvent even lightly they will start to come off pretty easily.

J.

[RayburnGuy]

I'm shooting plastic crankbaits with Createx exclusively. Base coat and all subsequent paint layers. I blow dry each coat of paint and then again after the final coat of paint. The lures I've dipped in DN showed no signs of the problem your describing. It could be a moisture problem your having.

Ben

[SlowFISH]

I'm shooting plastic crankbaits with Createx exclusively. Base coat and all subsequent paint layers. I blow dry each coat of paint and then again after the final coat of paint. The lures I've dipped in DN showed no signs of the problem your describing. It could be a moisture problem your having.

Ben

Interesting as the Createx clear I use seems to solve the problem... maybe it's a Parma issue???

I don't beleive it's moisture (although I guess it's possible on the first set of baits I ruined) as part of my test baits lastnight I was using a heat gun between coats to heat set the paint... so it was/should have been nice and dry before dipping... The un-cleared tests still wrinkled... With these baits, I didn't touch the surface once.... purposly made sure to insure it stay contaimination free.

The other possibility is room temp.... my basement isn't heated, but is probably in the upper 50's... maybe the DN isn't flashing off quickly in the lower temp causing it to stay liquid and eat at the paint a bit more than it should?

J.

[68KingFisher]

You said your first step was to sand a white lure body with 600 grit....are you talking about sanding a newly molded white plastic lure body?

[SlowFISH]

You said your first step was to sand a white lure body with 600 grit....are you talking about sanding a newly molded white plastic lure body?

Yes sanding the body... but a purchased bait... not anything I'm molding...

I did a few more baits tonight.... hit and miss.... heat setting definitely helps... tonight's batch was better.

J.

[RayburnGuy]

The cooler temps in your basement could very well be a problem. It would stand to reason that the DN would flash off better in warmer temps.

[Lure--Prof]

I had that problem in the beginning using Createx paints. I think my problem was two fold. I was using a solvent base primer or base coat before painting with Createx. I also think on the layered coats of acrylic I was not heat setting the paint properly. I found that by stop using the "other primer" and prime with Createx opaque base and heat setting each coat reaching around 125° at the surface for a few minutes and have not had the "wrinkle" finish since. I am no expert but I am sure some more experienced around here will be along shortly.

Bingo! It's all about the Heat-setting!

I know Parma paints are marketed a little different from Createx, but they are made by Createx, and formulated exactly the same as Createx's standard ready-to-use airbrush paint. I've used them interchangeably for years. As with Createx of course they require thorough heat setting. It is not about the paint being dry, but about molecular cross-linking that heating causes.

Thoroughly Heat-setting Parma paints will cure the problem!

Dean

[SlowFISH]

Bingo! It's all about the Heat-setting!

I know Parma paints are marketed a little different from Createx, but they are made by Createx, and formulated exactly the same as Createx's standard ready-to-use airbrush paint. I've used them interchangeably for years. As with Createx of course they require thorough heat setting. It is not about the paint being dry, but about molecular cross-linking that heating causes.

Thoroughly Heat-setting Parma paints will cure the problem!

Dean

That's probably the case.... the tests I did last night I made sure to heat-set each color/layer I painted... and much better results.

Thanks for all the help... once make a few more to cover the items I trashed I'll post up some pics.... I was hoping to share this batch as my first couple complete baits.... but I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer!!!

J.