Swimbait Help

[GDille]

Hello All,

I am trying to build a wim bait, yes it looks like the esox on here, but I had this puppy cut out before I saw the video. A kid in my high school goes to Canada every summer and wanted to take this along, I think. But I can't get the darn thing to swim, if it is twitched it looks great. I used the hinge system Diemai posted up here earlier. Is there a specific spot to but the weight, and then the hook eyes? Its close with i have more wight i can put in it, I just don't really know if i should be specific with the placement. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

George

Edited March 11, 2010 by GDille

[diemai]

@ Gdille

In my opinion you have chosen the most difficult body shape for your first one , ......I've never tried to make a muskie/pike bodied bait .

A buddy from a German site has also tried his hand on one recently and it did not swim well , ....so he added a lip later to get it going !

I think , the problems about this particular body shape are caused the by the streamlined shape of the first section .

There is a thread in here about vortices generated by the first section of a bait , that would flow down the flanks of a bait irregulary and cause the trailing sections to move sideward , thus do the typical snake motion .

Dave "Vodkaman" had put up this thread in here awhile ago , and meantime I am also convinced about this theory making a swimbait swim well .

Don't remember the name of the thread , but you could utilize the search function in here , take terms like "vortex theory" or "Mandelbrot files"(Mandlebrot files) , you should find it then .

Or search all threads started by Vodkaman via the personal profile option .

Anyway , I believe that the streamlined head shape of a flat muskie/pike body does just not cause enough disturbance in the water to generate those vortices down the flanks , ...........this is why these kinda baits are difficult to work .

Jeep has recently put up a video and gallery pictures about his latest pike bait , that swims very well , ..........if you look very closely , you will see , that the head of this bait is somewhat wider with a flat and little hollow portion on top of the nose , ............I believe , that this is the key thing letting this kinda bait work , this little part of the head acts like a diving bill and also generates those important vortices .

But same time such bait must have its flanks sufficiently tapered down the tail , so that the trailing sections would not have too much resistance aginst the water , when pushed sideward by the vortices , ........rather more flat trailing sections do work better to "snake" .

Also the line tie position could play its part in the game , .........before I got convinced about Dave's vortex theory , I have thought(and also still do) , that a line tie placed in about center of the front section would not be of advantage , ..........I always like to place it in a way , that different pressures of the oncoming water would work above and below the line tie , creating a kinda leverage around the tow point .

If these pressures would be equal above and below , no leverage can occur ,.........if you look at my baits , you will see , that the line tie is most likely located low at the tip of the first section , the nose and forehead back portion is a lot higher and longer than the belly side below the tow point . Some baits with the line tie placed higher upward have a kinda scooped out hollow upper nose plane to act like a diving vane .

I also ALWAYS tend to keep that head portion above the tow eye quite plane , not round it off too much like one ususally would(just breaking the edges) , so that the oncoming current can engage better onto it generating disturbance and vortices .

This way leverage around the tow point can occur , thus causing the first section to break out sideward and trailing the following sections into a "snake" course .

Anyway , that is my personal theory about swimbaits moving , before I got convinced about Dave's , ...but probably both have a bit of truth in them ?

Anyway , I guess , that you could only add a lip now to get your bait to swim or make a new and wider head section(and maybe second trailer for smooth transition of flanks) to be able to furnish such little flat nose indention like on Jeep's bait .

Concerning the weights in a swimbait , ......the first section should possibly carry the highest amount of weight , thus being the thickest and longest section of all(more buoyant) .

The second section would carry less weight than the first(should therefore be less buoyant) , the third trailer less than the second and so on , ............this is why the baits flanks should taper down the tail to render the sections less buoyant , thus require less ballast .

Off course the weight of the joints and hooks requires to be taken into consideration , but really the hook positions are not that important for the action of the bait , they should only sit as far apart as possible not to tangle with one another(if possible at all) .

Just my , .....if you should have further questions , I'd be glad trying to answer them , .........

good luck , diemai

[rofish]

GDille,

Lots of good advice from Diemai, but I think he just forgot to point out the most important one: the first section has to be longer than the other ones. If the first section has to be also wider than the rest of the body, as he says, that is a matter for discussion, but first, it has to be longer, especially if it has the shape of an "esox". Look how the esox lure looks like, Jeep's version:

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=viewimage&img=6710

If you look at the swimbaits that Diemai makes, you will also see that the first section is longer than the other ones, and also bigger (taller) so having better chances to create vortices.

So either you try to make a longer (perhaps also wider) head section for the lure you have, or just attach a lip, which should make the swimbait work.

[diemai]

@ rofish

Thanks for chiming in , ........as my missus was constantly talking to me as I was typing my post , I really forgot about mentioning the increased length of the first section thoroughly !

greetz , diemai

Edited March 11, 2010 by diemai

[gadawgs]

Great stuff here. All ican add is that your weight should be as low as possible and as close to the first joint as you can get it. The first joint should be weighted in the back and the rest of them should have the weight towards the front.

[kahawai]

made a pike type lure years ago (2005 actually) that swam nicely so here's my 2 cents worth , no real logic here, just what i did and it happened to work-

head needs to be wide as it is already tapered from the side.

first segment should be longest, last segment shortest.

weigh all segments so that it sinks horizontally

tail segment needs to be shorter and much more tapered(thinner)

line tie from below/angled down.

a pic shown here for reference, a few more in my album.

[GDille]

Update,

I have been playing with different weights, and it is starting to swim. I keep adding weight until I can get it to sink. I think I messed up and used a lighter wood. I just started with some scrap, I think this is white pine, very easy to work with but maybe too light. I also carved out the hinges and gave it a much higher range of motion. Its coming together, but very slowly.

Thanks,

George

[jamie]

I agree with alot of all above and would add the tail may be causeing drag and not letting your bait swim.

[GDille]

I went ahead and put the wait inside the bait. I figured I could add a lip to get it to move. One last test reviled that it does swim now. I think that having the weights wired on the out side caused some drag issues. I also am going to try it on some bigger water to see it the action is just limited by the size of my tub. It gets to swimming, then I have to turn it around, and try get it going again. I also sanded the sections to get a more drastic taper down to the tail. Thanks guys

George

[diemai]

@ Gdille

Nice to hear your bait slowly turning out for good , ....hold on !

good luck furthermore , ......greetz , diemai