nfollmer Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Hey everyone, Been awhile since I have been around! Anyway, I finally decided to start up a small operation and try and sell some baits at the local shops (won't have time to try internet sales, plus most of you make too good of a product for me to compete with ). I have a few questions though before I go full on this idea. 1. How much plastic does it usually take to do a moderate sized run of plastics? I realize this depends on the size of the lure, but I was going to buy 5 gal. (would that be overkill?) Just need a rough estimate on how much everyone uses... 2. Is it better to buy hard and soft plastic, or easier just to get one kind and then add softener/hardener? 3. how quickly do you go through colorant? I have a big long list of 4 oz colors I want to get, should I upgrade to 8 oz? That's about the only questions I have for now. I realize these are hard to answer, but just a general answer will work Thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainbutter Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Hey everyone, Been awhile since I have been around! Anyway, I finally decided to start up a small operation and try and sell some baits at the local shops (won't have time to try internet sales, plus most of you make too good of a product for me to compete with ). I have a few questions though before I go full on this idea. 1. How much plastic does it usually take to do a moderate sized run of plastics? I realize this depends on the size of the lure, but I was going to buy 5 gal. (would that be overkill?) Just need a rough estimate on how much everyone uses... 2. Is it better to buy hard and soft plastic, or easier just to get one kind and then add softener/hardener? 3. how quickly do you go through colorant? I have a big long list of 4 oz colors I want to get, should I upgrade to 8 oz? That's about the only questions I have for now. I realize these are hard to answer, but just a general answer will work Thanks everyone! 1) There is no reason to buy less than 5 gallons at a time. It's too expensive to buy one gallon at a time. 55 gallons is probably overkill for you, but for anyone who does serious production, it's the only way to go. I make plastics just for myself and I'm glad I bought a 5 gallon bucket, as I've already gone through over a gallon. 2) Go with a medium plastic, and add softener, or just use a super soft plastic from the get-go. I don't know of anything i'd want to add hardener to anyways. 3) I'd say anywhere from 2-8oz of colorant per gallon of plastic, since sometimes you only need a few drops and sometimes you need 30. It does go a long way, I'll run out of plastic before I run out of colorant. This is just from my pouring experience over a couple months, some of the production guys will chime in I bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfollmer Posted March 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 2) Go with a medium plastic, and add softener, or just use a super soft plastic from the get-go. I don't know of anything i'd want to add hardener to anyways. Well, don't most people use hard plastic for dipping tubes? I'd like to go as soft as possible, but how durable is the super soft (it sounds very tempting, but I know it probably won't work for every application.) Anyway, thanks for the reply, all great answers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcline Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Well, don't most people use hard plastic for dipping tubes? I'd like to go as soft as possible, but how durable is the super soft (it sounds very tempting, but I know it probably won't work for every application.) Anyway, thanks for the reply, all great answers! I think Mainbutter gave you some good advice. Go with the medium and add softener or hardener as you need it. At least til you get busy enough to need different formulas. You're right, most of us use hard formula for tubes, but if you're only doing enough for yourself you can harden up medium to work well enough. Personally I use hard and then add hardener to it tom get a really tough tube, but to each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squigster Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) Well, don't most people use hard plastic for dipping tubes? I'd like to go as soft as possible, but how durable is the super soft (it sounds very tempting, but I know it probably won't work for every application.) Anyway, thanks for the reply, all great answers! This is my opinion only and other guys may disagree and its all in preference but if you are making alot of tubes for jig heads you can use hard plastic. If you want to make flipping tubes I would suggest you use medium because the hard plastic is too hard for flipping (yet most durable) and it makes it harder for the hook to penetrate and you tend to lose fish becasue of that well atleast in my experience. In my opinion your best bet is to order 2 - 21/2 gallon jugs. 1 of Medium and 1 of soft. Bear will do this for you if you order from him. It really comes down to want you want to make the most of and who you are catering to. I make alot of beaver baits and alot of guys prefer the medium plastic becasue they hold up better than the soft and feel it makes no difference. Alot of guys like salt but most people I make them for want them without salt becasue they want them to float. You may be able to answer your own question by asking yourself what you are going to make. For other than tubes, hard plastic is too hard for most other baits other than saltwater. Medium is good for swimbaits, large worms, jerkbaits and frogs. Supersoft is used for finesse worms and senkos and smaller drop shot baits and what was said in the previous post you can add softener to the medium if you want them softer. My suggestion would to not deal with hardener at all its a PITA . Hope that helps. Just me 2 cents. Edited March 22, 2010 by squigster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfollmer Posted March 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Thanks guys! I'm def. Getting my plastic from bear (among other things) ill probably get stuff from del too (both of them are very helpful). Thanks for the plastic tips too. I figured id start out small with a swimbait, some worm designs, a craw trailer and a few dropshot minnows. I can expand if things go well, but ill take it 1 step at a time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBK Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Thanks guys! I'm def. Getting my plastic from bear (among other things) ill probably get stuff from del too (both of them are very helpful). Thanks for the plastic tips too. I figured id start out small with a swimbait, some worm designs, a craw trailer and a few dropshot minnows. I can expand if things go well, but ill take it 1 step at a time Soft calhoun will work great for all of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfollmer Posted March 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Very cool! Thanks bbk, now I won't have to experiment too much.... with plastic anyway, colors going to be a whole other story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Just my opinion but super soft is a little soft for swim baits. Maybe not durable enough is the correct statement. Medium is more appropriate as the bait definitely will not last more than one fish and may not even last that long when made with super soft as the hook may tear the baits up. Even smaller swims (3") need some hardener for the durability. If you are going to do swims, remember to look at packaging as well. Bags don't work or don't work for keeping the tails straight enough for any length of time. If you are seriously going to go into operation, I would get 1 gallon of medium and 5 gallons of super soft. No mixing and measuring of hardener or softener! You can use a 50/50 blend of the medium and ss for your small swims. Getting enough plastic upfront will also give you enough to work on your colors as you will find that is the toughest part of the process! Just my 2 cents.... Jim PS GOOD LUCK and have fun!!!!!!! Edited March 23, 2010 by ghostbaits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfollmer Posted March 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Just my opinion but super soft is a little soft for swim baits. Maybe not durable enough is the correct statement. Medium is more appropriate as the bait definitely will not last more than one fish and may not even last that long when made with super soft as the hook may tear the baits up. Even smaller swims (3") need some hardener for the durability. If you are going to do swims, remember to look at packaging as well. Bags don't work or don't work for keeping the tails straight enough for any length of time. If you are seriously going to go into operation, I would get 1 gallon of medium and 5 gallons of super soft. No mixing and measuring of hardener or softener! You can use a 50/50 blend of the medium and ss for your small swims. Getting enough plastic upfront will also give you enough to work on your colors as you will find that is the toughest part of the process! Just my 2 cents.... Jim PS GOOD LUCK and have fun!!!!!!! I was going to do a 3" and 5" swim and get the 5 inch 'coffins' from Lurecraft. I need to figure out a good, cheap way to do an insert though Ah, that brings up another issue, cardboard headers for my poly bags. Any cheap suggestions? I could print them myself, but I'm sure the ink would get expensive haha. Plus, I don't want to go to a printer and only ask for like 50, because I dont see myself needing any more than 50 to 100 at a time (if that even). Anyway, thanks for the info Jim. This is a lot to take in at once and I want to get my ducks in a row to figure out costs (Getting my start up money out of my IRA, I'm only 23 so I figure I have time to build it back up ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevtherev Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 I was going to do a 3" and 5" swim and get the 5 inch 'coffins' from Lurecraft. I need to figure out a good, cheap way to do an insert though Ah, that brings up another issue, cardboard headers for my poly bags. Any cheap suggestions? I could print them myself, but I'm sure the ink would get expensive haha. Plus, I don't want to go to a printer and only ask for like 50, because I dont see myself needing any more than 50 to 100 at a time (if that even). Anyway, thanks for the info Jim. This is a lot to take in at once and I want to get my ducks in a row to figure out costs (Getting my start up money out of my IRA, I'm only 23 so I figure I have time to build it back up ). I would not take the money from your IRA! You will pay a 10% penalty plus your marginal tax rate on the entire amount you withdraw. Borrow it or sell something instead! (I am a Certified Financial Planner) kevtherev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfollmer Posted March 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 I would not take the money from your IRA! You will pay a 10% penalty plus your marginal tax rate on the entire amount you withdraw. Borrow it or sell something instead! (I am a Certified Financial Planner) kevtherev I know, I've taken from it once before. I'm trying to stay under $1,000 to start up. As long as I put it back before the end of the year, they don't charge me anything. I love T. Rowe Price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcline Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 I know, I've taken from it once before. I'm trying to stay under $1,000 to start up. As long as I put it back before the end of the year, they don't charge me anything. I love T. Rowe Price Instead of using poly bags and headers maybe you should go with regualar barrier worm bags and labels. They look better in my opinion and aren't that much more expensive. I got mine from Johnson Bag and they're great. You do a cheap label on your home computer and you're set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfollmer Posted March 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Instead of using poly bags and headers maybe you should go with regualar barrier worm bags and labels. They look better in my opinion and aren't that much more expensive. I got mine from Johnson Bag and they're great. You do a cheap label on your home computer and you're set. NICE! Thanks for that site, those are some cheap bags I emailed 2 of our local printing companies about doing small stickers for the bags and coffin clamshell cases, but I bet they will be too expensive. Guess I can make the packaging look pretty if I make decent sales haha Edited March 23, 2010 by nfollmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 (edited) I would not take the money from your IRA! You will pay a 10% penalty plus your marginal tax rate on the entire amount you withdraw. Borrow it or sell something instead! (I am a Certified Financial Planner) kevtherev Good advice for sure. Don't forget, as a fishing tackle manufacturer,you are required to file quarterly excise tax forms w/the I.R.S. and pay a 10 % tax on gross sales each and every quarter. I.R.S. Form #720 Many skirt this and think they got away w/it UNTIL-the tax man cometh w/interest / penalties and reality sends a bolt of lightning through your checkbook. It sounds like you need to learn you plastics and hardness/softness texture desired for each type of soft-bait. before you start selling baits Then approach a local tackle shop and see what they're willing to pay. For starters they want everything 40% off of your retail prices and don't get hooked into a consignment deal. You deliver product-you get paid in full on the spot. Pardon the reality harshness but the business world doesn't care - it's all about profit and how fast your product moves in a store. Edited March 24, 2010 by smallmouthaholic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfollmer Posted March 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Good advice for sure. Don't forget, as a fishing tackle manufacturer,you are required to file quarterly excise tax forms w/the I.R.S. and pay a 10 % tax on gross sales each and every quarter. I.R.S. Form #720 Many skirt this and think they got away w/it UNTIL-the tax man cometh w/interest / penalties and reality sends a bolt of lightning through your checkbook. It sounds like you need to learn you plastics and hardness/softness texture desired for each type of soft-bait. before you start selling baits Then approach a local tackle shop and see what they're willing to pay. For starters they want everything 40% off of your retail prices and don't get hooked into a consignment deal. You deliver product-you get paid in full on the spot. Pardon the reality harshness but the business world doesn't care - it's all about profit and how fast your product moves in a store. Thanks for the advice. I realize I have a lot to learn, I didn't expect to get all my stuff and start selling tomorrow I haven't even started looking into taxes and all that good stuff yet, any other taxes I should know about? Looks like your in PA too, so it should be similar to what I will have to pay (I'm in Central PA). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Thanks for the advice. I realize I have a lot to learn, I didn't expect to get all my stuff and start selling tomorrow I haven't even started looking into taxes and all that good stuff yet, any other taxes I should know about? Looks like your in PA too, so it should be similar to what I will have to pay (I'm in Central PA). Call Dave from Bears baits and start off on the right foot by injecting . He'll spend the time to get you started w/everything you need including the CNC injection molds but it's doubtful you'll stay within your $1000.00 budget.. For most baits today,injection is the way to go if you're in business and want production w/various baits w/small appendages,feet and tails. bear@bearsbaits.com 985-969-1390 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfollmer Posted March 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Call Dave from Bears baits and start off on the right foot by injecting . He'll spend the time to get you started w/everything you need including the CNC injection molds but it's doubtful you'll stay within your $1000.00 budget.. For most baits today,injection is the way to go if you're in business and want production w/various baits w/small appendages,feet and tails. bear@bearsbaits.com 985-969-1390 I have a guy I do IT work for, he just happens to have a CNC machine and is cutting my molds. I design them on the computer and he cuts them (I have another thread here I made ages ago with some of my lure designs). Right now with 5 gallons of plastic, about 10 different colorants, some scents, pouring pots, injectors, safety equipment (gloves, glasses, all that jazz), bags and estimated shipping, I'm sitting at roughly $700.00. That leaves me with about $300 for mold work. Once I learn the trade and get a bunch of good lures poured/injected then tested, I'll try and sell them to local shops. If they don't want them.... Well, I'll never have to buy lures again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
