Trouble With Crankbait

[atrophius]

I just made some small cranks that are about 1.5" long. I cant find my camera atm so maybe I can upload some pics later. You guys might be able to answer this without though. I tested these in the bath tub and they seemed to work just fine. However, when I took em to a local pond and started reeling em in, they seem to flip over if reeled to fast. Is this due to the length of the lip in relationship to the size of the body? i will try and get some pics up here soon.

[diemai]

@ atrophius

It can be either the lip size or angle , .......to much length or too much plane of the lip does provide more leverage around the tow eye , so obviously the buoyancy of the lure body cannot provide enough sideward counterforce against this tendency to capsize and/or flip over .

A lure blank's tail portion curved downward(especially when a bit wider)also enhances this tendency .

To overcome the problem , either minoring lip length and/or size or more belly ballast(if still possible due to buoancy reasons) would most likely help , .......for future "alikes" a wider and/or higher body providing more buoancy might do as well .

But if you could post pictures , one could probably tell more !

good luck , diemai

[VANNDALIZER]

@ atrophius

It can be either the lip size or angle , .......to much length or too much plane of the lip does provide more leverage around the tow eye , so obviously the buoyancy of the lure body cannot provide enough sideward counterforce against this tendency to capsize and/or flip over .

A lure blank's tail portion curved downward(especially when a bit wider)also enhances this tendency .

To overcome the problem , either minoring lip length and/or size or more belly ballast(if still possible due to buoancy reasons) would most likely help , .......for future "alikes" a wider and/or higher body providing more buoancy might do as well .

But if you could post pictures , one could probably tell more !

good luck , diemai

I agree with Diemai, If the bait is 1.5" long you should have around 2 grams of weight depending on the wideh of the lure. Post some pics when you can.

Edited April 30, 2010 by VANNDALIZER

[atrophius]

Thanks guys, I will try and get some pics up, my daughter took my camera and left in her moms car so.......

I shortened the lips on the baits and it hardly has any movement now. I think I am going to chalk this one up to failure haha. They only took me a night to make and when I get some more time, I wil try some others just like this. I think it might need a tad bit of ballast. They are minnow shaped and pretty slender. I will still try and get some pics just for learning purposes.

[BobP]

Yeah, added ballast would be among the things to look at, in my experience. I make some of the fat balsa 1 5/8" store-bought baits occasionally (I don't enjoy shaping really small baits) and they work great when the total bait weight including #8 trebles is 1/4 oz (plus they cast better too!)

[MEISTERICS]

What is the bait made out of?

I have the same problem. I am using Resin and I think i may have used too much micro ballons. My first test lures ran great. I made a few more that i put a few more coats of epoxy plus some more microballoons and they swim slow great. But start cranking and they flip!

I am guessing they are too bouyant, ones rises much faster than the second batch. Just a theory, i will know more in a few days.

Edited May 2, 2010 by MEISTERICS

[atrophius]

Just an update. i finally got my camera. I ended up drilling a hole in the bottom of them to add some lead and reseal them after painting the spot over. Will post to see if the ballast helped. These are made out of poplar and pretty buoyant.

[diemai]

@ atrophius

.........I can see clearly now....... !

Three issues making your lure to swim on its side or even flip over , but only one to be altered to get it going !

First :

The line tie is located too high above the lip , place it lower to sit right inside of the kink between lip and chin(where both meet) .

This higher tow eye causes more leverage around itself on retrieve , as the lip portion below it is a bit longer this way .

Second :

The lip is pointing forward too much , decrease its angle to point a bit more downward , in this case tow eye can remain a bit higher , action would change from a wiggle to more of a roll .

The lip also is too wide for my taste at its entry into the body , I'd prefer it narrower there , this would mean a stronger taper of the lip towards its base(the portion inside of the lip slot) . This is probably the reason , why your lure hardly wobbles now with the shortened lip .

Third :

These spindle-shaped round blanks are not the best choice for versatile crankbait actions , they surely do work for some , but not all !

They always have a tendency to roll or even flip over like in your case , lure blanks with an oval cross-section have the great advantage , that the ballast weight is placed further below the lengthwise center axis , thus having a better leverage as a keel weight to counterwork flipping over caused by a big lip .

Just my , ..........good luck , Dieter

[MEISTERICS]

@ atrophius

.........I can see clearly now....... !

Three issues making your lure to swim on its side or even flip over , but only one to be altered to get it going !

First :

The line tie is located too high above the lip , place it lower to sit right inside of the kink between lip and chin(where both meet) .

This higher tow eye causes more leverage around itself on retrieve , as the lip portion below it is a bit longer this way .

Second :

The lip is pointing forward too much , decrease its angle to point a bit more downward , in this case tow eye can remain a bit higher , action would change from a wiggle to more of a roll .

The lip also is too wide for my taste at its entry into the body , I'd prefer it narrower there , this would mean a stronger taper of the lip towards its base(the portion inside of the lip slot) . This is probably the reason , why your lure hardly wobbles now with the shortened lip .

Third :

These spindle-shaped round blanks are not the best choice for versatile crankbait actions , they surely do work for some , but not all !

They always have a tendency to roll or even flip over like in your case , lure blanks with an oval cross-section have the great advantage , that the ballast weight is placed further below the lengthwise center axis , thus having a better leverage as a keel weight to counterwork flipping over caused by a big lip .

Just my , ..........good luck , Dieter

Thanks!!!

I am going to try moving my line Tie and see what happens.

[atrophius]

Ty for the input Diemae, I guess I will start over with that. i really dont feel like tearing these up any more and have a crappy bait.

[diemai]

@ atrophius

OK , ..............at least they served a purpose in terms of learning more about crankbait dynamics !

One more thing you could do , is to bend a tiny shanked wire eye(similar to a small rod guide) and tape it on the lip to come to sit at the location , that I have mentioned in my previous post , ........surely this temporary line tie won't salvage a messed up lure but you can test it in a bath tub or shallow water to see , what the different line tie location does to the lure action , so you'd have better clues for the next bunch .

Through the years I have done such(or similar) to a few of reject lures as well to get a better idea for future models .

Do you know the site My link , .........someone in here has mentioned it some weeks ago , ...........the "Crankbait ABC" in there is quite useful to learn about crankbait dynamics , I guess ?

good luck , Dieter

Edited May 4, 2010 by diemai

[atrophius]

Thanks for that link. Some good reading in there.

[mark poulson]

Dieter, you're a genius.

What effect would shortening the bill have?

[diemai]

@ mark poulson

Thanks , but you make me blush , my friend !

A shorter bill has less plane to be hit by the oncoming water pressure on retrieve , thus the diving performance decreases , also the power of the leverage force around the tow eye is minored(meaning the tendency of the bait to get to lay on it's side) .

This minor leverage causes the lure to wobble less or loose it's wobbling action totally(on well performing lures) , but baits that have a kinda improper lip/tow eye configuration like in this case here easily flipping over , can be salvaged that way still to achieve an improved and appealing swimming action .

Gonna send you an Email on the subject , Mark !

Greetz , Dieter

[diemai]

@ mark poulson

Most sorry , Mark , I have lost that file somehow that I wanted to Email to you !

Sorry again , ......greetz , Dieter

[benton B]

1. place ballast weight under the front hanger.

2. drop the lip angle by 10 degrees

3. place line tie in the lip close to the nose of the bait

4. use a round lip with a narrow taper back into the bait.

These are the areas I would change if I were building this bait. Nice looking little bait and it would work well in the smaller streams here in Ar.

[mark poulson]

@ mark poulson

Most sorry , Mark , I have lost that file somehow that I wanted to Email to you !

Sorry again , ......greetz , Dieter

No sweat my friend.

As for shortening the bill, I actually did that on the water with an old Bass Pro jointed floating minnow, that dove to 2' on the retrieve. I used some dikes to cut the bill off almost flush with the nose, but with a little projection.

I wound up with a great wake bait, which is what I was trying for.

Even a blind pig finds an acorn every once in a while.