Swimbait Joint Alignment

[capt mike]

When swimbait segments are cut, typically there is a v-shape cut. Which way should the v face; to the rear > or to the front < ? On my first two baits, the v faces to the rear (>). My latest bait project is where I cut a 2 piece swimbait and faced the v - notch forward (>). It doesnt swim in the water at all. Wondering if this is to blame? Another possible issue is that I cut the notch very deep and maybe I don't have the right clearance.

Edited July 20, 2010 by capt mike

[Vodkaman]

The question of VEE orientation has been discussed before. Some think that the VEE affects the action directly, personally I do not, but that is just my opinion, not proven.

If you are using a pin/eye hinge arrangement, then you have moved the pivot further forward, by moving the pin to the first segment. This slight change in geometry may have caused the problem, but purely conjecture on my part. If you are using an eye/eye hinge, then this argument is invalid, as the pivot point has not changed.

You are obviously very close to success. Maybe a slight adjustment to the ballast or the tow eye will solve the problem. In my testing, I have found that the tow eye has to be off centre (in side view).

I have found with lipless multi section baits, either they swim or they don't, no inbetween. You can be so close and not realise it.

Dave

[mark poulson]

The question of VEE orientation has been discussed before. Some think that the VEE affects the action directly, personally I do not, but that is just my opinion, not proven.

If you are using a pin/eye hinge arrangement, then you have moved the pivot further forward, by moving the pin to the first segment. This slight change in geometry may have caused the problem, but purely conjecture on my part. If you are using an eye/eye hinge, then this argument is invalid, as the pivot point has not changed.

You are obviously very close to success. Maybe a slight adjustment to the ballast or the tow eye will solve the problem. In my testing, I have found that the tow eye has to be off centre (in side view).

I have found with lipless multi section baits, either they swim or they don't, no inbetween. You can be so close and not realise it.

Dave

Dave nailed it. Having the pivot point in the rear of the sections deadens the action.

I did a series of test baits jointed that way, with the point of the V facing to the rear, and the pin in the rear of each section. I was "inspired" by the reverse V joints in the BBZ shad, which swims at all speeds.

I found that, with swimbaits, there is a loss of movement with that joint design.

Having the pivot point in the front of each section, by pointing the V forward, lets me have swimbaits that will swim at the slowest speeds, as well as on fast retrieves.

I think it has to do with how long, or short the joint section is made when you add the additional length of the screw eyes to the front. It is a much longer arc for each section to make in order to swim.

And I am not sure that the reverse V doesn't catch water, and create resistance that also deadens the swimming action. Alas, I have no test tank and video equipment to study it further. Hahaha

Joint spacing also has a lot to do with how well a lure swims.

I've had lures that didn't swim for beans until I opened up the joints more by backing out the screw eyes a little.

For me, the acid test is whether the lure will bend back on itself in a U when I hold the head facing down. I try to make the last joint the loosest (is that a word?), and adjust the others as I need to for good action.

Edited July 21, 2010 by mark poulson

[capt mike]

Dave nailed it. Having the pivot point in the rear of the sections deadens the action.

I did a series of test baits jointed that way, with the point of the V facing to the rear, and the pin in the rear of each section. I was "inspired" by the reverse V joints in the BBZ shad, which swims at all speeds.

I found that, with swimbaits, there is a loss of movement with that joint design.

Having the pivot point in the front of each section, by pointing the V forward, lets me have swimbaits that will swim at the slowest speeds, as well as on fast retrieves.

I think it has to do with how long, or short the joint section is made when you add the additional length of the screw eyes to the front. It is a much longer arc for each section to make in order to swim.

And I am not sure that the reverse V doesn't catch water, and create resistance that also deadens the swimming action. Alas, I have no test tank and video equipment to study it further. Hahaha

Joint spacing also has a lot to do with how well a lure swims.

I've had lures that didn't swim for beans until I opened up the joints more by backing out the screw eyes a little.

For me, the acid test is whether the lure will bend back on itself in a U when I hold the head facing down. I try to make the last joint the loosest (is that a word?), and adjust the others as I need to for good action.

I'm going cross eyed trying to understand this VEE stuff, but I believe I got the idea. The pivot point is on the front of the joint when the vee isopen towards the rear. I guess I will stick with what works and not try to test geometry. I'm going to toss that lure before I get too far into it. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[mark poulson]

I'm going cross eyed trying to understand this VEE stuff, but I believe I got the idea. The pivot point is on the front of the joint when the vee isopen towards the rear. I guess I will stick with what works and not try to test geometry. I'm going to toss that lure before I get too far into it. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Once you figure it out you'll laugh at how simple it was. The point of the V faces the front, just like the nose of the bait.

Another tip is to try and shape the profile of the swimbait with another V, this time one that looks like and old battleship, with the back and shoulders thickest, and then tappering down to a thinner belly. It doesn't have to be a lot.

My baits start at 9/16" at the top, and taper down to 3/8"+- at the belly. That shape puts more buoyancy and water resistance higher, so the bait stays stable and upright even when you burn it on a fast retrieve.

[Vodkaman]

You should keep the failures. These provide an opportunity to learn. When you get more of a feel for the swimmer, return to the failure and experiment with it.

Dave

[capt mike]

You should keep the failures. These provide an opportunity to learn. When you get more of a feel for the swimmer, return to the failure and experiment with it.

Dave

Your'e right Dave, I'll whittle on it and weight it until it gives in. Thanks for that tip Mark. Makes easy sense to me. By the way I understand the pivot point perfectly now..had to sleep on it. Mark, what size eye screws do you use on your 10" baits (length etc). I want to make a 12" or bigger bait. I've been possessed by something that happened to me beginning of this summer. I was reeling in a bass that I had hooked on a big hammer bait. I watched a big bass swim up to the bass on the line and swallow the whole mess. I tried to let her run with my bait and the hooked bass. I hit her a few seconds later. Had her Hooked for a moment and that was it. I reeled in the keeper bass and it measured 13". That big bass was no bigger than 7 or 8 lbs. Big Baits work.

[mark poulson]

Your'e right Dave, I'll whittle on it and weight it until it gives in. Thanks for that tip Mark. Makes easy sense to me. By the way I understand the pivot point perfectly now..had to sleep on it. Mark, what size eye screws do you use on your 10" baits (length etc). I want to make a 12" or bigger bait. I've been possessed by something that happened to me beginning of this summer. I was reeling in a bass that I had hooked on a big hammer bait. I watched a big bass swim up to the bass on the line and swallow the whole mess. I tried to let her run with my bait and the hooked bass. I hit her a few seconds later. Had her Hooked for a moment and that was it. I reeled in the keeper bass and it measured 13". That big bass was no bigger than 7 or 8 lbs. Big Baits work.

I use the .092-1 7/16" sst screweyes for all but the tail hinge. I use the .072-7/8" for the tail hinge, and I get them both from http://lurepartsonline.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=2006

I use sst bicycle spokes for the hinge pins, and both size eyes accept them.

Amazing what a bass will eat. I came across a 12" bass with an 8" bass wedged in it's mouth. Both had died.