Need Advice On Melting Pot

[cranker]

Hello all, I have been melting my lead in a Lee melter then using a ladel to fill my jig molds.The problem I have is the ladel gets dirtied up with lead and the pours are inconsistent which usually messes up several heads each time I pour because it sometimes causes incomplete pours especially in one particular mold that has been modified to have a small keeper barb.I have considered buying the small Lee production pot the bottom pour type thinking this will hive me more consistent pours but not sure.Can anyone chime in with whether or not the bottom pour type is any better or if it really makes a difference with pours? I am pouring jigs which are up to 1/2 oz. and really nothing larger.I know it sounds crazy but I really think the ladel is causing problems because once I have poured a few and start to get a little lead buildup and splatter on my ladle the problems start,I know some will say "just clean the ladel" but its hard to stop pouring every 2 or 3 minutes to clean a very hot ladel.Incomplete pours are killing me rite now on hooks!

[cadman]

Cranker,

I do know that if you go with a bottom pour pot, you will get more pours per hour. It is overall faster. However if you're faster and don't get good pours then at that point it becomes useless. The first thing I would suggest is flux your lead and skim the crap off the top. Then I would spray your cavities with drop-out lead release. These two will definitely give you immediately better results. If you don't want to spend $60 for a bottom pour pot, then a ladle will work. I pour spinnerbaits with a 1oz cheap ladle, and I get perfect pours all of the time. This is the only way that mold pours really well for me. Other time I will use a bottom pour pot. Make sure the lead is hot and like Bob said keep the ladle in the lead and keep it hot as well. I'm sure others will chime in and comment. I you are looking for a bottom pour pot then I would recommend the Lee IV pot.

Edited September 12, 2010 by cadman

[Ogajiga]

I've never used a bottom pour melter, but can offer some suggestions on pot & ladle pouring. In addition to already advised:

1. Periodically tap the top and bottom of the ladle handle near the bowl with a metal bar or tool over the pot. This will dislodge some or all of the slag buildup back into the pot.

2. Keep skimming the slag off the melt surface - I save the slag in a handled cast iron small sauce pot that can be heated & fluxed to recover any useable metal from the skim.

3. The only way I've found to clean all the lead from the ladle outlet indent is a quick wipe with a paper towel while the ladle is melt hot. Wear a glove on the wiping hand!

4. Lead alloy composition is critical when ladle pouring - the less antimony the better the cavity fill out - in my experience pure lead with 4% tin added is the easiest ladle pour alloy.

[cranker]

Thanks guys,I will try it keeping my ladel hotter and see if that helps.I do always flux my lead with candle wax and constantly skimming the top for sloss,seems like I have to skim after every scoop! Maybe I have not been keeping my ladle hot enough.I enjoy ladel pouring and had actually rather keep doing it that way but I have to cut out so many incomplete pours,that gets so frustrating I usually just cut off the pot and walk away from it for a while.

[dlaery]

One thing will help ladle pouring is dust you ladel with powder. I use industrial talc, it does not have perfume in it. you will have to re-dust about every 5 to 10 pours, but it will help a lot.

Edited September 12, 2010 by dlaery

[Ogajiga]

"cranker", what kind of lead and ladle are you using? What mold(s) and hooks are giving you the most trouble?

[cranker]

"cranker", what kind of lead and ladle are you using? What mold(s) and hooks are giving you the most trouble?

I am using soft lead,a combination of stick on wheel weight and soft lead from roto-metals.I am using the cheaper version Lee Ladle and pouring in a Do-It round head weedless jig mold with a 60 deg. mustad 32798 flateye. My mold has been modified,this mold has the ring and barb but the barb on a do it mold is useless because it does not hold the plastic trailer at all so I modified mine and put the barb on the opposite side of the jighead and made it more of a point.My incomplete pours are coming from this setup and biggest problem is not filling in the barb cavitys,neither the new one or the factory molded one.I tried to pour some today and tried heating up the ladle good and it did help but still had a few bad ones.I am really starting to wonder if this is just a not so good ladle because the first few pours were really good but after about 10 or 12 jigs the problem started again.I have tried my lead around 750 to around 900 deg. and it really dont make a difference.Its really getting frustrating,I am fluxing good and skim the surface between every jig pour.Its almost like the ladle gets the least bit of slag or dross on it and it just wont pour a good steady solid stream.

[cranker]

"cranker", what kind of lead and ladle are you using? What mold(s) and hooks are giving you the most trouble?

I am using soft lead,a combination of stick on wheel weight and soft lead from roto-metals.I am using the cheaper version Lee Ladle and pouring in a Do-It round head weedless jig mold with a 60 deg. mustad 32798 flateye. My mold has been modified,this mold has the ring and barb but the barb on a do it mold is useless because it does not hold the plastic trailer at all so I modified mine and put the barb on the opposite side of the jighead and made it more of a point.My incomplete pours are coming from this setup and biggest problem is not filling in the barb cavitys,neither the new one or the factory molded one.I tried to pour some today and tried heating up the ladle good and it did help but still had a few bad ones.I am really starting to wonder if this is just a not so good ladle because the first few pours were really good but after about 10 or 12 jigs the problem started again.I have tried my lead around 750 to around 900 deg. and it really dont make a difference.Its really getting frustrating,I am fluxing good and skim the surface between every jig pour.Its almost like the ladle gets the least bit of slag or dross on it and it just wont pour a good steady solid stream.

[cranker]

"cranker", what kind of lead and ladle are you using? What mold(s) and hooks are giving you the most trouble?

I am using soft lead,a combination of stick on wheel weight and soft lead from roto-metals.I am using the cheaper version Lee Ladle and pouring in a Do-It round head weedless jig mold with a 60 deg. mustad 32798 flateye. My mold has been modified,this mold has the ring and barb but the barb on a do it mold is useless because it does not hold the plastic trailer at all so I modified mine and put the barb on the opposite side of the jighead and made it more of a point.My incomplete pours are coming from this setup and biggest problem is not filling in the barb cavitys,neither the new one or the factory molded one.I tried to pour some today and tried heating up the ladle good and it did help but still had a few bad ones.I am really starting to wonder if this is just a not so good ladle because the first few pours were really good but after about 10 or 12 jigs the problem started again.I have tried my lead around 750 to around 900 deg. and it really dont make a difference.Its really getting frustrating,I am fluxing good and skim the surface between every jig pour.Its almost like the ladle gets the least bit of slag or dross on it and it just wont pour a good steady solid stream.

[cranker]

"cranker", what kind of lead and ladle are you using? What mold(s) and hooks are giving you the most trouble?

I am using soft lead,a combination of stick on wheel weight and soft lead from roto-metals.I am using the cheaper version Lee Ladle and pouring in a Do-It round head weedless jig mold with a 60 deg. mustad 32798 flateye. My mold has been modified,this mold has the ring and barb but the barb on a do it mold is useless because it does not hold the plastic trailer at all so I modified mine and put the barb on the opposite side of the jighead and made it more of a point.My incomplete pours are coming from this setup and biggest problem is not filling in the barb cavitys,neither the new one or the factory molded one.I tried to pour some today and tried heating up the ladle good and it did help but still had a few bad ones.I am really starting to wonder if this is just a not so good ladle because the first few pours were really good but after about 10 or 12 jigs the problem started again.I have tried my lead around 750 to around 900 deg. and it really dont make a difference.Its really getting frustrating,I am fluxing good and skim the surface between every jig pour.Its almost like the ladle gets the least bit of slag or dross on it and it just wont pour a good steady solid stream.

[cranker]

"cranker", what kind of lead and ladle are you using? What mold(s) and hooks are giving you the most trouble?

"cranker", what kind of lead and ladle are you using? What mold(s) and hooks are giving you the most trouble?

I am using soft lead,a combination of stick on wheel weight and soft lead from roto-metals.I am using the cheaper version Lee Ladle and pouring in a Do-It round head weedless jig mold with a 60 deg. mustad 32798 flateye. My mold has been modified,this mold has the ring and barb but the barb on a do it mold is useless because it does not hold the plastic trailer at all so I modified mine and put the barb on the opposite side of the jighead and made it more of a point.My incomplete pours are coming from this setup and biggest problem is not filling in the barb cavitys,neither the new one or the factory molded one.I tried to pour some today and tried heating up the ladle good and it did help but still had a few bad ones.I am really starting to wonder if this is just a not so good ladle because the first few pours were really good but after about 10 or 12 jigs the problem started again.I have tried my lead around 750 to around 900 deg. and it really dont make a difference.Its really getting frustrating,I am fluxing good and skim the surface between every jig pour.Its almost like the ladle gets the least bit of slag or dross on it and it just wont pour a good steady solid stream.

[Ogajiga]

When my mediocre quality Taiwan mfg. ladle broke after 10 yrs. of decent service, luckily I had a backup heavier duty vintage USA mfg. ladle. Worked OK for most of my Do-its, but pouring 3/4 & 1 oz. Arrow Jig heads my ratio dropped from near 100% clean castings to less than 50%. Figgering it must be some kind of ladle flaw, bought 2 more slightly smaller vintage USA ladles and 1 rather odd looking small one which might have been a miniature model. Well, the only one of those 3 ladles that kinda worked was the miniature single spout which still only brought my ration up to 70% or so. The small Lee dipper had insufficient drop velocity when poured full so success ratio was 0%.

What I assume is that the spout outlet design makes a difference. The original ladle which broke had a similar rounded spout like the miniature, & I might just have to get me another of those Taiwan ladles which are still available in tackle shops.

So "cranker", perhaps a ladle change might help, assuming you still want to go that route. Also, your unusually quick slag formation suggests contaminated lead, perhaps zinc. And, in my experience, spike barb collars are prone to partial fills despite optimal pouring conditions.

I think most pourers would suggest that indeed you switch to a bottom pour melter as a possible fix to your problem.

Edited September 13, 2010 by hawnjigs

[cadman]

Cranker,

I'm going to have to agree with the post above mine by hawnjigs. Also I do believe that a bottom pour pot will fill better providing you don't have other issues. Finally if you did add a spike barb to your mold cavity, make sure it is vented. Otherwise you could be trapping air when you are pouring and it will never fill especially since this was an add on by you. Take a jeweler's file and file a groove on 1/2 of the mold from the new cut out spike barbed you made, to the outside of the mold cavity so air can escape. This may solve your problem as well. Let us know what finally worked for you.

[dlaery]

Remember that lead cools very fast, so keeping you ladel hot and in the lead, (if possible) when unloading the mold, would be important.

Is the barb pointing uphill? that makes it more difficult to fill. Also you need to pour fast. Thats hard to do sometimes.

Does your ladle have the point at the pouring spot like hawnjigs pics? That is really helpful in pouring.

You know Cadman talked about filing ("file ing", not filling, I don't know how to spell) some air vents to prevent air intrapment, when trying to pour fast, if you hold the mold at an angle so some air will escape out the top when pouring.

Try some of the baby powder on your ladle and in the mold.

And I think also that the bottom pour pot would help, but you could still have trouble.

One other thing, you said the mold is modified, does it have a larger hook than what is called for? Is the hook taking up some extra space in the lead collar? Just a thought.

[cranker]

I am using the hook Do-It reccomends for the mold ,it is the light wire mustad so I am good there.The barb I added does point upward and some of my pours are just perfect with the barb filling out fine.I will try venting the barb also and that may help some.My ladle does have the little pouring notch in it and that is where I have allot of problems with the dross trying to build up and thats why I thought maybe a bottom pour would help.I also did not know that the dross should not be building up like mine does!I have to scale the top off every time I go to dip my ladle,I have a large spoon I use for that but I have that problem even using the virgin lead from roto meatals which is I think 96% lead and 4% tin.Does it have a negative affect to have your lead too hot ? Reason I ask is because I am heating to about 850.Think I will vent my mold for the barb,try a different ladle and see what happens.I had rather buy a new ladle than the bottom pour pot but will get it if I have to to get the consistent pours.I also may just be too darn picky,I like for my jigs to come out perfect and rite now I guess about 75% are and the other 25% are being melted back down.

[cranker]

I am using the hook Do-It reccomends for the mold ,it is the light wire mustad so I am good there.The barb I added does point upward and some of my pours are just perfect with the barb filling out fine.I will try venting the barb also and that may help some.My ladle does have the little pouring notch in it and that is where I have allot of problems with the dross trying to build up and thats why I thought maybe a bottom pour would help.I also did not know that the dross should not be building up like mine does!I have to scale the top off every time I go to dip my ladle,I have a large spoon I use for that but I have that problem even using the virgin lead from roto meatals which is I think 96% lead and 4% tin.Does it have a negative affect to have your lead too hot ? Reason I ask is because I am heating to about 850.Think I will vent my mold for the barb,try a different ladle and see what happens.I had rather buy a new ladle than the bottom pour pot but will get it if I have to to get the consistent pours.I also may just be too darn picky,I like for my jigs to come out perfect and rite now I guess about 75% are and the other 25% are being melted back down.

O.K. guys,I appreciate all the help.I had a venting problem in my mold! Today I filed small vent channels at the new barb in my mold as Cadman brought up and that did the trick,I poured 100 jigs tonight with all 100 coming out perfect,they were flawless.Thanks for all the help.

[cadman]

Cranker,

Well I'm glad you got your problem solved. There are so many variables in pouring lead, that a lot of it is trial and error until you find the correct solution. There is so much good information in this thread from so many knowledgeable people, that all of this info can be used down the road on other molds. Believe it or not each mold has its own personality on any given day and two identical molds don't pour the same either. Best thing to do if you have any special way of pouring a certain mold is to write it down on the mold or in a notebook so you can refer to it next time. A good way to tell if you have a venting problem in the future is to stick 1/2 of a business card or (2)pieces of masking tape stacked on each other between the mold halves and do a test pour. If the jig pours perfectly with the tape in place you have a venting problem. Naturally always try to pour without tape in between the mold halves, because you will get some flash this way. Have fun pouring and thanks for posting your final results.

[Ogajiga]

Yup, "Cranker", thank your lucky stars "cadman"s venting suggestion worked. Venting the Arrow jig head mold spike barbs collars didn't solve the partial fill problem, and neither did cracking the mold halves during pouring for cavity air release. This is the only one of, I don't know, 70-100 molds that defies reasonable fixes which problem appears to narrow down to type of ladle. I might have to give in and try "cadman"s recommended release agent for this tuffie.