Two Lead Pouring Questions

[KMW5]

Hello everyone. I am relatively new to the lead pouring. I have been reading a bunch of the previous threads on this subject and I have some questions that never seem to be addressed probably because the question is too basic and assumed that everyone knows. Well, here goes. What exactly is fluxing, how do you do it, and what do you use. My other question is about the lead compostion. It has been said over and over that the best lead will have some tin and antimony in it. If I start with pure plumbers lead, how would I add tin and antimony to this? Where does one find tin and antimony? I have some wheel weights too. How can I tell what the composition of these are? It seems I don't want any zinc in my lead and don't want to contaminate the lead that I have.

Thanks in advance for any help here.

[KMW5]

Hello all. I just read the sticky at the top of the page and I get what fluxing is. So, what do you think is the best material for fluxing? How do you tell a beeswax candle from a different wax candle, or are they all good? I obviously have never fluxed and have had problems with the mold filling correctly. I am hoping that this will solve a lot of that problem along with my other posted question about the lead composition.

Thanks

[Vodkaman]

I am hoping that this will solve a lot of that problem along with my other posted question about the lead composition.

It is good that you are reading, thinking and trying to solve your own problems, but the pouring experts will be able to help you more efficiently if you tell them what problems you are having.

Personally, I am not a pourer, unless you count pouring a few ballast weights for crankbaits, but I have read everything on this site. It is my understanding that ordinary candle wax will do the trick, parafin wax and even wood dust (I read it here on TU). Just don't do it in your wifes kitchen, or you will be joining a few home decorating forums and possibly taking some cookery courses also. The wax will likely flare up into a smokey fire ball. You have to get past that and stir the wax into the mix.

Dave

[Boomer]

Hello all. I just read the sticky at the top of the page and I get what fluxing is. So, what do you think is the best material for fluxing? How do you tell a beeswax candle from a different wax candle, or are they all good? I obviously have never fluxed and have had problems with the mold filling correctly. I am hoping that this will solve a lot of that problem along with my other posted question about the lead composition.

Thanks

What you use to flux with is essentially irrelevant, as you are burning it up. Bullet casters even use a piece of bullet lube.

Problems with the mold filling correctly are much more likely to be caused by issues with the metal temp, the metal alloy, or the mold temp.

[Peterjay]

Hello everyone. I am relatively new to the lead pouring. I have been reading a bunch of the previous threads on this subject and I have some questions that never seem to be addressed probably because the question is too basic and assumed that everyone knows. Well, here goes. What exactly is fluxing, how do you do it, and what do you use. My other question is about the lead compostion. It has been said over and over that the best lead will have some tin and antimony in it. If I start with pure plumbers lead, how would I add tin and antimony to this? Where does one find tin and antimony? I have some wheel weights too. How can I tell what the composition of these are? It seems I don't want any zinc in my lead and don't want to contaminate the lead that I have.

Thanks in advance for any help here.

If you don't want to deal with scrap metal and want to be sure of the composition of the stuff you're pouring, sites that cater to bullet casters sell various kinds of lead alloys. Buffalo Arms is one that comes to mind. Rotometals also sells a variety of non-ferrous alloys. You could also do some scrounging around on eBay. I've bought 40 pounds of pure tin in the past few weeks on eBay for a fraction of the market price. Just make sure you do your homework beforehand, so you know what to look for and what the current price is. Most of the metal for sale there is grossly overpriced, but there are some real bargains if you're patient and keep digging.

[KMW5]

Thanks for the suggestion PJ. Those sites that sell metals for a profit are incredibly expensive. I was hoping to find a source for tin like a scrapyard or garage sale or something of the like. Ebay is good idea. I personally shy away from Ebay because it seems like they want all of your money to try and sell something on their site. I wanted to sell some stuff there and WOW, I just as well give it to them. On the buying end of course it would be different. As far as homework is concerned, I would like to know how to identify good tin, or any tin for that matter. All I would be able to do is take someones word for it. Current price I assume is what you could buy it for from say Rotometals. So, is there anything a person could find at a scrapyard that is made of tin? I have some solder that is 95/5 tin/antimony laying around, but that is expensive too. Just looking for a way not to get ripped off or break the bank.

[dlaery]

You havn't said what you are pouring but I wouldn't worry about adding or using tin or antimony in my lead. We hand poured for 14 years, never fluxed, never added tin or antimony (didn't know what they were) and just used soft lead. If you buy scrap lead, you will need to melt it down outside in something other than a bottom pour pot. Scooping off the dross (crud) on top will clean your lead. If you flux you will not waste a much lead. Then pour the lead into ingots to use in your melting pot.

If you don't want to mess wih melting your lead outside, buy ingots of soft lead already "cleaned".

[Peterjay]

Thanks for the suggestion PJ. Those sites that sell metals for a profit are incredibly expensive. I was hoping to find a source for tin like a scrapyard or garage sale or something of the like. Ebay is good idea. I personally shy away from Ebay because it seems like they want all of your money to try and sell something on their site. I wanted to sell some stuff there and WOW, I just as well give it to them. On the buying end of course it would be different. As far as homework is concerned, I would like to know how to identify good tin, or any tin for that matter. All I would be able to do is take someones word for it. Current price I assume is what you could buy it for from say Rotometals. So, is there anything a person could find at a scrapyard that is made of tin? I have some solder that is 95/5 tin/antimony laying around, but that is expensive too. Just looking for a way not to get ripped off or break the bank.

I tried the scrapyard route a year ago, when I started pouring tin, and what little I found was overpriced. Especially considering you only have the dealer's word on how pure it is. A good way to proceed might be to use Rotometals' price as a benchmark, then scout out eBay for a deal. There are always people selling alloys on there. Just make sure you know what you're getting and that the dealer has positive feedback. I've recently seen pure tin on eBay selling for as much as $45 per Troy pound plus shipping. (a Troy pound is smaller than an Avoirdupois pound - Avoirdupois is the system we use in everyday life) In contrast, I just took delivery on 40 pounds of pure tin from an eBay dealer for $8.50/lb. (Avoirdupois) shipped. The price difference is nothing short of amazing. The guys selling at outrageous prices aren't necessarily crooks - they're just looking for people who don't do their research. Or maybe as Dave suggested, you don't need an alloy at all. Clean lead isn't expensive - just make sure you have a benchmark price to use as a reference, so you don't wind up bringing a knife to a gunfight.

[BLT]

I found a great source for lead is people that remodel old homes, and plumbers. I found a plumber with a giant pile of old lead pipe. Offer him going rate from the scrap yards, some tackle/sinkers if they fish, and see what happens. Make sure you cut it down into small sections, and prop them up on end to make as sure as you can there IS NO MOISTURE in them.

[KMW5]

Hey,

All very good suggestions. I do however have to disagree with your comment that someone selling lead for that price is not necessarily a crook. That is what is wrong with the whole capitalism system. There is always more people looking to take advantage of you for their own personal gain. That is why I can't own a business. I never learned how to rip people off. I always sell and do everything at a resonable price, or even free. Ok, enough ranting on my part. I do really appreciate all of the help from everyone on the site. Believe it or not, I was a plumber for 23 years, so lead was never a problem in the past. This whole tin thing is new to me though. I can't continue to be in the trades because I am now disabled because of the bad job. Don't ever let any of your kids go into the trades, it isn't worth it. Ok, maybe I wasn't done venting. Thanks for all of the great suggestion. I will work on the tin thing before I start puring again.

[BLT]

Hey,

All very good suggestions. I do however have to disagree with your comment that someone selling lead for that price is not necessarily a crook. That is what is wrong with the whole capitalism system. There is always more people looking to take advantage of you for their own personal gain. That is why I can't own a business. I never learned how to rip people off. I always sell and do everything at a resonable price, or even free. Ok, enough ranting on my part.

I could not agree with your more! Greed is KILLING this Country. I am told from my friends and even 2 of the tackle shops I supply that my prices are well below the other people that make rigs for them. It's all part of the "I want it now" thinking. OK, I'm with you, I'm stepping down off the box lol.

[Peterjay]

I stand by my assertion that there's a difference between being greedy and being a criminal. If the seller is misrepresenting his product or colluding with others to fix prices, that's a different story, but potential buyers have to assume some responsibility for educating themselves. If someone refuses to take swimming lessons, then falls off a ferry and sinks like a rock, is it the captain's fault? That said, I agree that the culture of greed in the business world is wrecking the country. Our current economic quagmire can be traced directly to unbridled corporate greed, but not all business people are like that. My wife and I own a small business and we've never ripped anybody off and never will. Honesty is good for business in the long run. If you screw somebody, they're not coming back and they won't hesitate to put the word out. If you establish a good relationship with a buyer, you've got yourself a regular customer and a lot of good will. Besides, it's the right thing to do. Lotsa soap boxes lying around here today. Mine is going to be unoccupied now if somebody wants to climb up.

[mkvnmtr]

I use tin and like it for some spoons and sometimes for the ultra Minnow jig. Most of the tin I find is in the form of 95% tin solder. That is what they call lead free solder.I was lucky enough to find a scrap yard here in Mexico with about 500 kilos of said solder at about half of market price. I believe market price is about $8.00 a pound. Seems like that is high after working with lead but when you cost it out per jig or spoon it is not bad.I believe in the states bars of that solder could be bought at sheet metal supply houses or maybe welding supply. It is very easy to work with. I do not see the need to add tin to lead pours but it makes great spoons.

[Peterjay]

I use tin and like it for some spoons and sometimes for the ultra Minnow jig. Most of the tin I find is in the form of 95% tin solder. That is what they call lead free solder.I was lucky enough to find a scrap yard here in Mexico with about 500 kilos of said solder at about half of market price. I believe market price is about $8.00 a pound. Seems like that is high after working with lead but when you cost it out per jig or spoon it is not bad.I believe in the states bars of that solder could be bought at sheet metal supply houses or maybe welding supply. It is very easy to work with. I do not see the need to add tin to lead pours but it makes great spoons.

Congratulations. You've found yourself a teriffic bargain at $4/lb. A lot of the old-timers around here here made their striped bass jigs from 95/5 (tin/antimony) solder. It's really good stuff - it would make a great additive to pure lead. I was going to use it, but I had trouble finding any in this area that didn't cost an arm and a leg. I found pure tin to be cheaper, even though the market price has risen dramatically in the past year. At $8.50/lb., I've been making 2 1/4 ounce jigging spoons for under $2 apiece for materials, including hardware; like you say, it isn't bad when you break it down, especially when you consider that it doesn't require painting or plating.

[Ogajiga]

Getting back to the original question of adding alloy metals tin & antimony to soft lead:

I use garage sale solder or pewter for tin and wheel weights for antimony enrichment as the most economical solution. Alloys for fishing tackle castings don't usually required expensive pure metals source precision, unless one needs to meet legal lead free composition requirements. Luckily, wheel weights with an average range of 2-3% antimony as a hardener is a decent compromise of hardness and pourability, easily diluted with soft lead if less than perfect melt fill is an issue. Addition of scrap tin to a content of 2-5% generally improves the pourability and corrosion resistance of any lead, with 4% being ideal IMO for jig heads.

And to repeat what has been oft repeated, when outside sourcing wheel weight lead be absolutely sure there is no zinc contamination.

[Peterjay]

HJ - if you don't mind a really dumb question, what happens if zinc accidentally finds its way into casting metal? Will it wreck your mold?

[Ogajiga]

My first ever wheel weight melt around a dozen yrs. ago(unaware of zinc) there were a few unmelted clippers floating in the open flame pot which did finally melt when I jacked up the heat on my propane burner. With that level of zinc contamination, the melt has a galvanizing effect and I had a tuff time getting residue off cast iron ladle, pot, & burner.

Because of the mess I avoided wheel weights until recently soft lead became so hard to source here I was forced to reconsider WWs. I knew by that time about zincers and cherry picked them out by appearance and weight differential. But, I missed one or more small ones and got a melt that constantly surface sludged which skimmed remainder could not be recycled like normal lead.

I'm not sure how badly zinc affects pourability becuz I only use WWs for EZ pouring larger sinkers. The mess and waste was motivation enuf to avoid further issues with a system devised with the help of "sagacious".

Perhaps others have experienced using zinc contaminated lead in a bottom pour melter?

I requested a post thread about zinc contamination be made a sticky - till then an archive search might locate it.

[mkvnmtr]

One time Before I knew better I let some zinc got in a big melt. I lost about 20% of the weight to slag that could not be recovered. That is a big hit when you do this for money. I have noticed that with a little zinc contamination you never stop making slag even with repeated fluxing. It is worth going through wheel weights one by one to be sure it does not happen. By the way I thought pewter had a zinc content. Guess I better look that up to be sure.

[Peterjay]

Thanks guys - that's good info.