Flake Problem

[Frank]

I just opened a new red flake jar to replace the old one and it is sparking in the micro. It has already destroyed two pyrex cups by putting chips in the bottom from the sparks. I am not talking about one or two sparks either alot of them. I already ordered more from the old source but want to know if anyone has had the same problem. And no I did not by it at a craft store. Thanks Frank

[toadfrog]

I just opened a new red flake jar to replace the old one and it is sparking in the micro. It has already destroyed two pyrex cups by putting chips in the bottom from the sparks. I am not talking about one or two sparks either alot of them. I already ordered more from the old source but want to know if anyone has had the same problem. And no I did not by it at a craft store. Thanks Frank

Well Frank I've been told several stories one that the pyrex cup had a flaw that would cause that reaction. Two that the type of surface on something glass metal ect . will cause that reaction. But I had a similar experince. So here is what to do . Go to a dollar shop or something similar purchase a small ceramic cup or bowel depending on if you want to pour from it or not . To my knowledge ceramic reacts to no waves of any kind . Put some plastic and the suspect glitter in and let her go. If it sparkles you have the glitter as the culprit. If so your glitter has a metalic reflective surface.

[Frank]

I guess I kinda did that. The cups are about a year old and never had flaws in them before. The flaws are very noticable now. The sparks are very noticable in the micro. Last night I put a left over piece in with the flake settled to the bottom. It sparked almost imediatly and was heated in less than 20 sec. but just the bottom portion. I have some black from the same place but dont want to waste more plastic. I ordered more of that too. Frank

[TTDuckman]

I use exclusively metallic glitter now. I have not had the sparking issue, but would tend to think it is the cups. I get my glitter from two sources, both of which only sell metallic. I use the micro for the vast majority of my pouring/shooting.

Tim

[Delw]

Glitter sparks due to reflectiveness only in a micro wave

the cups and the glitter sparking are more of a coincidence more than anything else, as glass wont break du to sparking especially Pyrex.

if your glitter is sparking try to stir it before you put it in, clumps of glitter are tons worse then when its coated with plastic and or mixed in.

on reheats if your glitter is on the bottom in big clumps break it apart and rehear the other stuff first then slowly drop the chunks of glitter in it. plastic glitter is far worse for sparking then metallics due to the shininess of them(mylar glitters)?

I caught a few microwaves on fire by just dumping the glitter in or during reheats and not nixing the stuff before I heat it

I microwave is pretty cool in the way it heats things, it uses water molecules to heat with. no water present nothing will heat. having say that the shininess of any object will make microwaves bounce which in turn it will show sparks.

a bunch of years ago on myth busters was a really cool show on microwaves and everything we thought we knew about microwaves was 100% false.

[Frank]

Thanks for the replys guys. The only thing that I changed here is the glitter so that is why I went that route. The cups like I said are about a year old. Del thanks for the clump info. I will cut the clumps off and and add them slowly. I cant see how in time would the sparking would be OK because the bottom of the cups now have chips missing. Just never had an issue like that before. Thanks Frank

[mark poulson]

I add the glitter to my salt cup, and premix well before I pour it into the already hot plastic.

Then I stir it in well, reheat a little, and pour. I've never had sparking or cup issues. Of course, I've never watched the plastic heat in the microwave, so it may be sparking like crazy, and I just never noticed.

[jacobsbaits]

I just opened a new red flake jar to replace the old one and it is sparking in the micro. It has already destroyed two pyrex cups by putting chips in the bottom from the sparks. I am not talking about one or two sparks either alot of them. I already ordered more from the old source but want to know if anyone has had the same problem. And no I did not by it at a craft store. Thanks Frank

Hey Frank, I've had the same problem, and the culprit was anodized aluminum flake. I had one pyrex cup shatter in the microwave, and another shattered in my hand while I was removing it from the microwave. After that I did a little research, and found out that the flake was made of aluminum and was being super heated in the microwave, and burning through the glass.

I now use a toaster oven and hot plate to heat small batches of plastic

[Delw]

Thanks for the replys guys. The only thing that I changed here is the glitter so that is why I went that route. The cups like I said are about a year old. Del thanks for the clump info. I will cut the clumps off and and add them slowly. I cant see how in time would the sparking would be OK because the bottom of the cups now have chips missing. Just never had an issue like that before. Thanks Frank

Frank I found out the hard way also, Just dumped it in hit the but turned around the the thing was arcing like a monsoon storm, one time it even caught fire.. found that the plastic glitter from the craft stores( milar stuff) is even worse and catchs fire quick.

Hey Frank, I've had the same problem, and the culprit was anodized aluminum flake. I had one pyrex cup shatter in the microwave, and another shattered in my hand while I was removing it from the microwave. After that I did a little research, and found out that the flake was made of aluminum and was being super heated in the microwave, and burning through the glass.

I now use a toaster oven and hot plate to heat small batches of plastic

The culprit has nothng to do with being alum anodized glitter or plastic/mylar. it all has to do with reflectability thats makes the mircowaves bounce. its actually hard to get clumps to spark the angles have to be just right. Alum foil is the same way.

The Warden has been selling alum glitter from Day 1 and I am talking thousands and thousands of pounds over the last 10+ years, while people always thought metal was a bad thing in a microwave it was not it didnt discolor like non alum glitters, Over the years pretty much everyone changed to alum glitter as it doesnt bleed near as much or melt near as much as the other glitter.

Delw

Delw

[jacobsbaits]

Frank I found out the hard way also, Just dumped it in hit the but turned around the the thing was arcing like a monsoon storm, one time it even caught fire.. found that the plastic glitter from the craft stores( milar stuff) is even worse and catchs fire quick.

The culprit has nothng to do with being alum anodized glitter or plastic/mylar. it all has to do with reflectability thats makes the mircowaves bounce. its actually hard to get clumps to spark the angles have to be just right. Alum foil is the same way.

The Warden has been selling alum glitter from Day 1 and I am talking thousands and thousands of pounds over the last 10+ years, while people always thought metal was a bad thing in a microwave it was not it didnt discolor like non alum glitters, Over the years pretty much everyone changed to alum glitter as it doesnt bleed near as much or melt near as much as the other glitter.

Delw

I think I understand what your saying, its not the alum. flake, but the color of flake that is causing the problem.

What color's of flake are safe to heat in the microwave?

Delw

[Frank]

I heat all of the colors in the micro. I tried cutting off thee clumps of glitter and mix in later and it still sparked. Random but still did. I think I will go back to the old supplier and settle this. I actually got the new order in yesterday. Thanks Frank

Edited October 20, 2010 by Frank

[SHK]

if you actually read the post Jacobsbaits, it has the exact reason why the flake sparked

"it all has to do with reflectability thats makes the mirco waves bounce"

what that has to do with colour i dont know. basically, if you place a piece of very shiny and reflective plastic in the nuker, you will get the same result.

[Delw]

I heat all of the colors in the micro. I tried cutting off thee clumps of glitter and mix in later and it still sparked. Random but still did. I think I will go back to the old supplier and settle this. I actually got the new order in yesterday. Thanks Frank

Frank its not your supliers fault no matter who it is. is the nature of the beast, wether it did it once twice or never.

shinny objects are not microwave safe, they never have been.and there used to be/still are? warnings (in the manual) not to use shiney stuff and metals in a microwave we ( the user) just makes things work.

reheats wont help any either as there is still glitter in it,and its shiny.

you know plastic was not meant to be heated in the microwave either, it was tried out of cuiosity back in 2000/2001? by Chris(on the board here/Al's Worms) then me and a few other guys. we were talking about different ways to heat plastic on the old tacklemaking.com board. someone mentioned it and I think chris was the first to try it. its been used ever sence.

still to this day a microwave doesnt work with plastic 100%, your colors are duller the baits are a tad stickyer, the plastic is thicker etc etc. it works but not near as good as it does with real heat. compare them with heating plastic in a oven or pot and you will notice a better plastic and brighter and truer colors.

A microwave however does work really well if you heat it hot then stire the crap out of it let it sit for a while, not letting it get cold then heat sit and heat.

And when you think your done heating it in the microwave its still cooking, there could be a 50-75 even 100º difference in the middle to the outside. you can see this on the edges of your pyrex dish as the plastic is still white ie uncooked.

The microwave really aint the best thing to use unless you need it fast and and to look ok, kind just like the way food in the microwave taste's.

Delw

[Vodkaman]

Interesting subject, so I did a little research, but a little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.

Manufacturers tell you not to switch on the machine unless there is something inside to cook. This is not a power saving suggestion. Without something to absorb the microwave energy, the waves will bounce around and heat up the actual heat source, the magnetron tube and damage it.

By placing food containing water in the oven, you are introducing a good susceptor (A susceptor is a material used for its ability to absorb electromagnetic energy and convert it to heat – I knew that!). Now that the energy is converted to heat, it no longer has the ability to arc. Before you try glitter in a cup of water and shoot me down in flames (or sparks), this is not 100%, because if a piece of flake touches the side of the container, it will collect the microwave energy and not the heat energy.

What we need is a container made of a susceptor material, as water is obviously not going to work, due to the relatively low boiling point. I am now going to hand you over to the article that I learned this information from, as I stated earlier, “a little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing” and I don’t want the blame.

The article was very interesting, in that its subject is the use of a standard household microwave for melting metals, that would normally require expensive smelting equipment. With the tree huggers seemingly getting their way with future lead bans, this method could open up some interesting opportunities for us.

http://home.c2i.net/...hor/mvpage.html

Dave

[mark poulson]

Do you think spraying your Pyrex with PAM first would keep any glitter from sticking to the Pyrex and arcing?

[Vodkaman]

Do you think spraying your Pyrex with PAM first would keep any glitter from sticking to the Pyrex and arcing?

I don't think it would help. It is known that oil is not a good susceptor, because pastry items just do not cook. I am not sure how good of a susceptor plastic is, if it takes 4 minutes to heat a cup to 340 and only a minute to heat a cup of water to 212.

Dave

[jacobsbaits]

if you actually read the post Jacobsbaits, it has the exact reason why the flake sparked

"it all has to do with reflectability thats makes the mirco waves bounce"

what that has to do with colour i dont know. basically, if you place a piece of very shiny and reflective plastic in the nuker, you will get the same result.

Okay, So why did only the aluminum flake spark and burn through the pyrex cup?

I don't buy into the idea, that it's the color and not the material.

Is someone willing to put a piece of aluminum in the nuke and see what happens? I'm not.

This may be a good subject for the show "Myth Busters"

All I can say for sure is that, I've had serious problems with anodized aluminum flake in the microwave, and I stopped heating plastic in a microwave because of it. On the other hand, I know people, who will only heat with a microwave, and they have never had any problems.

[mark poulson]

I add my salt and flake once the plastic is already heated, and just reheat for 30 seconds+- to get it back up to pouring temps.

Maybe the flake doesn't get hot enough to spark in only 30 seconds.

When I reheat plastics with flake, I always add some new plastic. I don't know if that helps, but I don't have problems with that, either.

I buy my flake from Del, Lurecraft, and some from Senkosam. I don't know if any of them are aluminum, but I think they are all polyester.

And I spray the Pyrex with PAM occasionally, when it seems like the salt residue is sticking to the bottom.

Edited October 21, 2010 by mark poulson

[SHK]

Okay, So why did only the aluminum flake spark and burn through the pyrex cup?

I don't buy into the idea, that it's the color and not the material.

Is someone willing to put a piece of aluminum in the nuke and see what happens? I'm not.

This may be a good subject for the show "Myth Busters"

All I can say for sure is that, I've had serious problems with anodized aluminum flake in the microwave, and I stopped heating plastic in a microwave because of it. On the other hand, I know people, who will only heat with a microwave, and they have never had any problems.

i have a few divided cups that see regular use in the microwave that are split using a piece of aluminum held in with high temp RTV. no problems so far, and ive been using them the last year or so

myth busters have already done a show on microwaves and determined the "Metal in the microwave" myth as busted. a little search on the forum for divided cups will show that people have been using aluminum as the divider for quite some time.

[Delw]

Okay, So why did only the aluminum flake spark and burn through the pyrex cup?

I don't buy into the idea, that it's the color and not the material.

Is someone willing to put a piece of aluminum in the nuke and see what happens? I'm not.

This may be a good subject for the show "Myth Busters"

All I can say for sure is that, I've had serious problems with anodized aluminum flake in the microwave, and I stopped heating plastic in a microwave because of it. On the other hand, I know people, who will only heat with a microwave, and they have never had any problems.

one last time. it all has to do with reflectability thats makes the mirco waves bounce it has nothing really to do with color nor does it have to do with metal vs plastics. it was already aired on Myth busters they did a show. a very lengthy one too. they even put 4 microwaves together in one unit to blow it up. and heat metal bars, but since the metal bars had no H2o in them they didnt get hot.

take a piece of tin foil and put it in the mircowave it will bounce and arc. explained in detail on mythbusters as well. also go get some very shiny mylar in silver or gold even black. it will arc as well if you crumple it up.

Dave cool info and link thanks

Mark we have been selling alum glitter since day one almost 10 years, so if you got it from use its alum, unless it was a holocolor then its the high temp mylar type. it sparks if dropped in clumps especially the black holo. which is the coolest color glitter around. If I ever buy my new Gambler it will be in the black holo color.

Delw

Edited October 21, 2010 by Delw

[mark poulson]

Del,

If ignorance is bliss, I'm a happy camper!

Thanks for 'splainin it to me, Lucy.

[GB GONE]

Cut a grape in half (one with seeds) and lay the halves next to each other.... It will spark and cause fire if you let them go... The seeds act as lightening rods...

Microwaves - the waves that bounce around the inside of your microwave in a tizzy and heat up your food, actually are reflected by metal. And your metal objects are acting like lightning rods for the microwaves. So once the microwaves start to reflect off the metal, an electrical current will be formed - especially between metal objects with different protruding parts (such as fork tines) - items such as these will produce the most arcing and will be the most likely to produce sparks.

Most newer microwaves actually have a metal rack in the microwave for cooking and you never get sparking off of the shelf itself.

I have never had any flake arc but I don't leave it in a bunch ever. Even in already cooked plastic, I grate mine with an old cheese grater to thin out the flake good.

Jim

[jacobsbaits]

one last time. it all has to do with reflectability thats makes the mirco waves bounce it has nothing really to do with color nor does it have to do with metal vs plastics. it was already aired on Myth busters they did a show. a very lengthy one too. they even put 4 microwaves together in one unit to blow it up. and heat metal bars, but since the metal bars had no H2o in them they didnt get hot.

take a piece of tin foil and put it in the mircowave it will bounce and arc. explained in detail on mythbusters as well. also go get some very shiny mylar in silver or gold even black. it will arc as well if you crumple it up.

Dave cool info and link thanks

Mark we have been selling alum glitter since day one almost 10 years, so if you got it from use its alum, unless it was a holocolor then its the high temp mylar type. it sparks if dropped in clumps especially the black holo. which is the coolest color glitter around. If I ever buy my new Gambler it will be in the black holo color.

Delw

Delw

Here's what two suppliers have to say about this subject, the first is from jannesnetcraft and the second is from lurecraft

I copied these directly from their sites

Purple glitter is metal and unuseable in microwave ovens.

CAUTION WHEN USING METAL FLAKE IN A MICROWAVE. IT IS OKAY IN SOME BUT MAY NOT BE IN OTHERS.

My opinion is, Heat with a microwave at your own risk. Results may vary.

[Frank]

Delw

Here's what two suppliers have to say about this subject, the first is from jannesnetcraft and the second is from lurecraft

I copied these directly from their sites

Purple glitter is metal and unuseable in microwave ovens.

CAUTION WHEN USING METAL FLAKE IN A MICROWAVE. IT IS OKAY IN SOME BUT MAY NOT BE IN OTHERS.

My opinion is, Heat with a microwave at your own risk. Results may vary.

This is what I am finding but the only thing that was changed in my case was the flake and when I changed back it did nothing just like before. So when people say that it has to do with reflectability maybe that flake was more reflective. As for time in the micro I heat up my plastic add color then flake and set it on a griddle. When I need to heat it up again is when it happens but the flake is settling to the bottom.

Del your black holi is your best kept secret dont go telling everybody about it. Actually all of your holis are great looking. Frank

[jacobsbaits]

one last time. it all has to do with reflectability thats makes the mirco waves bounce it has nothing really to do with color nor does it have to do with metal vs plastics. it was already aired on Myth busters they did a show. a very lengthy one too. they even put 4 microwaves together in one unit to blow it up. and heat metal bars, but since the metal bars had no H2o in them they didnt get hot.

take a piece of tin foil and put it in the mircowave it will bounce and arc. explained in detail on mythbusters as well. also go get some very shiny mylar in silver or gold even black. it will arc as well if you crumple it up.

Dave cool info and link thanks

Mark we have been selling alum glitter since day one almost 10 years, so if you got it from use its alum, unless it was a holocolor then its the high temp mylar type. it sparks if dropped in clumps especially the black holo. which is the coolest color glitter around. If I ever buy my new Gambler it will be in the black holo color.

Delw

Here's some more info I found on line.

Do you still want to insist that metallic flake is safe for mircowave use? I'll keep throwing facts at you for as long as it takes, for you to admit that you are wrong.

Other metals are a no-no in the microwave, too.

Tiny sharp pieces and thin pieces of metal are a different story. The electric fields in microwaves cause currents of electricity to flow through metal. Substantial pieces of metal, like the walls of a microwave oven, can usually tolerate these currents without any problems. However, thin pieces of metal, like aluminum foil, are overwhelmed by these currents and heat up very quickly. So quickly in fact, that they can cause a fire. Plus, if the foil is crinkled so that it forms any sharp edges, the electrical current running through the foil will cause sparks. If these sparks hit something else in the oven, perhaps a piece of wax paper, you'll probably be reaching for the fire extinguisher.

Edited October 23, 2010 by jacobsbaits