Two Color Ripper Bait /production Video

[GB GONE]

I was curious because months ago when Basstackle came out with this block, the blending block was called out by lots of folks as slow, awkward, clogs up, etc. Probably the reason Frank did this video.

I can see how the hinge will help clear plastic quicker (minor issue if you have used one of these as I have for months) but definitely will not speed up any process of moving mold to mold (more important) or resolving the clogging issue (biggest issue to me). Bears may clog slightly less as it is not as wide therefore less plastic in the actual block while injecting. Maybe someone will make a video like Frank did so we can see.

Will there be the same set-up as Basstackles for the injectors so that you force plastic at the same time as well? That is really what makes the lamination perfect every time not the block.

Jim

[Frank]

Yes that is exactly why I did the video Jim. I see people saying it wont work it clogs,cant shoot a cold mold and a few other minor things. But in the end it does work and has for me since it was made. I think I even have the first one sold, or very close to it. Yes there have been some updates and I think they are for the good. I think if you make a product like someone elses it pays a huge compliment to the original maker. Dont we do these thing as bait makers. We make baits like others with as much as a few changes to suit our own needs. Let me tell you all what I think makes it work. Filling the injectors with a large hole so it has less time to cool, the reason Kevin put the two together so you can fill them at the same time. He has a blending block that is closer together but you have to fill the injectors seperatly which gives them more time to cool. Then you have to push on two injectors evenly to get a consistant laminate. To much learning curve for me. I like to keep it real simple. Frank

[smallmouthaholic]

So have you tried the blending block out made by Bear? It appears to be the same (same name even) but I wonder if you will have the same issues as Kevin's? Does not look any significant changes made but I am looking for information on how the Bear's blending block works if anyone is using it. It appears to be smaller and may fit my hand a little better. Anyone using yet?

Jim

I ordered it two days ago and it's on the way. There's other,important and practical discussion taking place on a new custom ,two-color injector between myself and Bear.I don't wait for others to comment on new products-especially from Bear's. I order it and if I don't like it,Bear makes it right or gives me a credit on account.David always listens to constructive criticism and is willing to modify products to meet commercial customer demands. That's why he's no#1 in my book. I'll post results of Bear's new blending block.

[GB GONE]

Look forward to your review. I suspect you will have positive remarks as it is the same as Basstackles but with a hinge vs a single center nut.

Sure makes lamination a no-brainer!

Thanks Al.

Jim

[smallmouthaholic]

Look forward to your review. I suspect you will have positive remarks as it is the same as Basstackles but with a hinge vs a single center nut.

Sure makes lamination a no-brainer!

Thanks Al.

Jim

If I don't like it ,I'll tell Bear and then you.There's much more @issue here then the blending block. That's merely the 1st caveat to overcome concerning two color injecting.Maintaining constant temperature and viscosity of the plastic inside of BOTH injectors(w/out the chance of exploding Pyrex cups) is the major caveat as they both must be exactly the same for the ability to inject 24 molds in one round w/consistent ,professional results.The blending block must also be clog free during the 1st round.Anything innovative takes time and $ to develop.I'm not interested in a two-color injector /blending block that clogs after a few molds have been injected.

[Frank]

If I don't like it ,I'll tell Bear and then you.There's much more @issue here then the blending block. That's merely the 1st caveat to overcome concerning two color injecting.Maintaining constant temperature and viscosity of the plastic inside of BOTH injectors(w/out the chance of exploding Pyrex cups) is the major caveat as they both must be exactly the same for the ability to inject 24 molds in one round w/consistent ,professional results.The blending block must also be clog free during the 1st round.Anything innovative takes time and $ to develop.I'm not interested in a two-color injector /blending block that clogs after a few molds have been injected.

So why not just buy Bears injection machine and be done with it. I hear it will do what you want and then some. I want to see what is going to keep the block attached to the two injectors that are seperate so it does not fall off. If you have a good idea and dont want to share why not make your oun and market it. You make it sound easy. Let us in on the secrets you have Please. Frank

[GB GONE]

If I don't like it ,I'll tell Bear and then you.I'm not interested in a two-color injector /blending block that clogs after a few molds have been injected.

Then I think you are going to be dissapointed for sure. Bears block is the same as Basstackles, just a hinge, pin and slightly shorter in length. Other than that, it is just a copy. My point earlier was that the clogging and the moving of the block issues have not been addressed in this model either.

Let me know what you think Al and if you would rather just PM me, that is fine. I am afraid this topic is going to blow up and it is not my intention. I am just looking for information on the product.

Jim

[ranger77]

Then I think you are going to be dissapointed for sure. Bears block is the same as Basstackles, just a hinge, pin and slightly shorter in length. Other than that, it is just a copy. My point earlier was that the clogging and the moving of the block issues have not been addressed in this model either.

Let me know what you think Al and if you would rather just PM me, that is fine. I am afraid this topic is going to blow up and it is not my intention. I am just looking for information on the product.

Jim

Frank is correct, i want to hear the secrets. It doesnt matter what blending block is produced if it is not hotter than the plastic it will cool in a very short time. The only way to produce mass quantity of baits without having to stop after every few molds is to buy that pressure machine. After all we are all using the simple microwave or presto pot and with those you manually make the laminates. Also, I dont expect kevin, bear, or del to have to replace a product for me because i tried it and i didnt like it. Now if I ordered the wrong item, sure i know for a fact they would replace it for me because i have done this before. We have to be careful not to abuse these great guys because they are the best. I have ordered some of kevins molds and did not care for the particular bait and i have sold them on here to get another one i like better. Just my opinion

[smallmouthaholic]

So why not just buy Bears injection machine and be done with it. I hear it will do what you want and then some. I want to see what is going to keep the block attached to the two injectors that are seperate so it does not fall off. If you have a good idea and dont want to share why not make your oun and market it. You make it sound easy. Let us in on the secrets you have Please. Frank

4k for the injection machine for starters and the room to use it.There have been reported problems using salt w/ the machine but I believe they have been corrected.Custom,multi-cavity CNC injection mold projects can run up to 1k each( and more w/ high detail) and I have 3- possibly 4 in the works for 2011.No big secrets here to anyone who has performed hours of 2 color injection without the use of potential Pyrex bombs waiting to detonate.My eyes and face are worth much more then $100.00+ worth of borosilicate lab beakers.

Here it is- the injectors and mixing block must be heated to maintain an internal temperature of 325-350 degrees.The entire injector must maintain that heat range from top to bottom. The mixing block can be pre-heated in a toaster oven and possibly the heated plastisol from the injector will keep it from clogging through multiple injections- that remains to be seen.Thin aluminum injectors draw less heat from the plastisol vs. heavy gauge aluminum injectors.The injector tips do not have to lock in place but again,that could be personal preference. The entire 2 color injector must be light in weight to allow for the weight of the plastisol .You have to be able to draw the plastic from 2 different colored lab beakers,quickly attach the heated mixing block and inject approximately 24 molds w/out worrying about the plastisol thickening or the mixing block clogging and falling off when moving from mold to mold.

Market the heated, 2 color injector for +/-$500.00 and you'd sell a bunch vs. a 4K injection machine for those who wish to do limited 2 color, commercial injection once a week w/consistent,no hassle results.

[smallmouthaholic]

Bears block is the same as Basstackles, just a hinge, pin and slightly shorter in length. Other than that, it is just a copy.

Jim

You are incorrect in your assumption unless Bass tackle changed their original blending block I used months ago

[mark poulson]

Didn't someone here adapt a hot glue heating element to help keep plastic nozzles warm, or was that in a different universe?

[Frank]

You are incorrect in your assumption unless Bass tackle changed their original blending block I used months ago

Basstackle has two blending blocks one for the twinjector and the other for single injectors which are closer together. I talked to Bear sunday and we talked dimensions for the output of the new block. His numbers were spot on Kevins so it being differant ,I would not count on it. Any other changes in my mind dont matter. The output is what matters.

Your other responce to the changes were not what I was expecting. Seems to me in your mind you redesigned the whole unit. A few things that ring in my mind. You stated you want to fill 24 molds before it clogs. I am guessing these are single cavity molds. So if you had 6 molds with 4 cavitys each and two sets of twinjectors (318 dollars) you could in theroy shoot three molds set them down and fill the second set and shoot the last three. Now when you demold you only have to open 6 molds and cleanout two set of twinjectors to get 24 baits. Just the way my mind works. People say nuts are a waste of time but it is still faster to open one mold with 4 baits than it is to open 4 molds with 1 bait in each. And on the nut issue you can clamp them and just not use anything else. On my twinjector video I use a clamp on two molds that have 4 cavitys each.

The thickness of the material is at least in my mind backwards. A block of aluminium will hold more heat the a thin one. A radiator in a car is made of thin pieces to release heat from an engine not a block. This does not have to be a big deal but I have a thin wall one and Kevins which are thick. The thin one gets hotter than the thick one. But if you want your injector at 330 deg it is easier to get a thin one there faster but will radiate heat out faster.

Seems to me you have a way of shooting that you want to stick with and that is OK but most of the people here dont have 24 molds of one bait so this system works. The most cavitys of one design I have is 4 and I am OK with that. Except for worms but dont pour many of those. Frank

[GB GONE]

There is another major issue that has not been talked about when using these blending blocks in a production mode as it may be that many are just using these for non-production baits currently.

If you clamp several hinged molds together in a row (as most do during production), the port areas are all directly next to each other. Once you inject your first mold, the sprue area fills and spills over. When you put the blending block into the next mold port, the blending block lays over the previous port area and plastic sticks to the bottom of the block. Continue this for a couple molds and you have a clogged mess from the plastic cooling on the outside of the molds and sticking to the blending block and its port. The block does not clog, the port where plastic extrudes from gets clogged or you get the colors mixed on the port. I will post some pics tonight of what I am talking about if it is unclear.

The only alternative is to clamp 2 molds and then seperate 2 more and so on. Or have all seperate clamps for all your hinged molds. Takes up a LOT of counter space, especially if you have numerous molds. Plus you have to buy a LOT of clamps. Definitely a draw back in production attempts beyond the block clogging inside and moving the set up from mold to mold.

I will guess that you didn't use the blending block from Basstackle long Al as I had issues with getting used to using it in the beginning. I can run out two 6oz injectors now without the block or injectors clogging. I just don't get 24 molds in, more like 10 (Which is 20 baits or 30 baits, depending on what molds I am shooting). I run out of plastic before I run out of molds. You do have to pre-heat and also move pretty quick. I think both of these blocks will work in a production setting, it just takes practice to get used to using them.

With regards to the blocks being different, HA, HA.... A blind man can see Bears is just a copy of the Basstackle block. After using this method for several months now, in production, I can tell you, without a doubt, that removing the plastic faster from the blending block is your least concern. It really is not an issue at all as you are waiting for baits to cool, de-molding, readying other molds and heating plastic. You have several minutes to get the block clean. Or, you have 2 blocks and you don't even think about clearing the first block for a pretty good amount of time. We are talking about production, right?? The issue (clogging) that you originally brought up with the blending block made by Basstackle has not been addressed in the design of the Bear blending block for production use. They are both made of aluminum and neither has a heating mechanism, therefore, they will both eventually clog. Not science, just fact.

I still wonder out loud how you will get good quality lamination without the injectors depressing at the same time, with the same force, along with how you are going to balance holding 2 loose injectors and a blending block with 2 hands??? Without something to move the injectors at the exact same time and force, you will get as many swirl baits as you do laminate, just like with the duel adapter contraptions being used currently. Then moving all that to the next mold.

As a person that has been using this set-up for months now for production, be careful! Even now, the injectors slip out of the block ports and plastic starts oozing places you don't expect. Getting burned is easier with all this to me than just my good old pyrex/anchor cups.

Just my experiences from using a blending block in production for 4-5 months now. I shot 300+ laminate baits just last night with mine in very short order. The current Basstackle block does work and work well. My bait color chart is proof enough for me.

Jim

[smallmouthaholic]

There is another major issue that has not been talked about when using these blending blocks in a production mode as it may be that many are just using these for non-production baits currently.

If you clamp several hinged molds together in a row (as most do during production), the port areas are all directly next to each other. Once you inject your first mold, the sprue area fills and spills over. When you put the blending block into the next mold port, the blending block lays over the previous port area and plastic sticks to the bottom of the block. Continue this for a couple molds and you have a clogged mess from the plastic cooling on the outside of the molds and sticking to the blending block and its port. The block does not clog, the port where plastic extrudes from gets clogged or you get the colors mixed on the port. I will post some pics tonight of what I am talking about if it is unclear.

The only alternative is to clamp 2 molds and then seperate 2 more and so on. Or have all seperate clamps for all your hinged molds. Takes up a LOT of counter space, especially if you have numerous molds. Plus you have to buy a LOT of clamps. Definitely a draw back in production attempts beyond the block clogging inside and moving the set up from mold to mold.

I will guess that you didn't use the blending block from Basstackle long Al as I had issues with getting used to using it in the beginning. I can run out two 6oz injectors now without the block or injectors clogging. I just don't get 24 molds in, more like 10 (Which is 20 baits or 30 baits, depending on what molds I am shooting). I run out of plastic before I run out of molds. You do have to pre-heat and also move pretty quick. I think both of these blocks will work in a production setting, it just takes practice to get used to using them.

With regards to the blocks being different, HA, HA.... A blind man can see Bears is just a copy of the Basstackle block. After using this method for several months now, in production, I can tell you, without a doubt, that removing the plastic faster from the blending block is your least concern. It really is not an issue at all as you are waiting for baits to cool, de-molding, readying other molds and heating plastic. You have several minutes to get the block clean. Or, you have 2 blocks and you don't even think about clearing the first block for a pretty good amount of time. We are talking about production, right?? The issue (clogging) that you originally brought up with the blending block made by Basstackle has not been addressed in the design of the Bear blending block for production use. They are both made of aluminum and neither has a heating mechanism, therefore, they will both eventually clog. Not science, just fact.

I still wonder out loud how you will get good quality lamination without the injectors depressing at the same time, with the same force, along with how you are going to balance holding 2 loose injectors and a blending block with 2 hands??? Without something to move the injectors at the exact same time and force, you will get as many swirl baits as you do laminate, just like with the duel adapter contraptions being used currently. Then moving all that to the next mold.

As a person that has been using this set-up for months now for production, be careful! Even now, the injectors slip out of the block ports and plastic starts oozing places you don't expect. Getting burned is easier with all this to me than just my good old pyrex/anchor cups.

Just my experiences from using a blending block in production for 4-5 months now. I shot 300+ laminate baits just last night with mine in very short order. The current Basstackle block does work and work well. My bait color chart is proof enough for me.

Jim

It seems that Kevin modified his original blending block from my recommendations-months ago. The original had angles and a travel distance that permitted easy clogging.Clearing the clogs were time consuming w/ the original model. There are still many caveats w/ two color injecting that will be addressed in the near future.

Bear's is on the way- it takes 3-4 days to get here by U.P.S. I have not used it so no comments yet are forth coming in comparison to the old blending block I used many months ago .

"Getting burned is easier with all this to me than just my good old pyrex/anchor cups."

Until they decide to explode ! Are all these folks making up stories?

http://www.topix.com/forum/food/chicken/TMLVTA6CA6BKTK50T

or these-

http://www.google.com/search?q=exploding+pyrex%2Fanchor+cuops&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Jim- I'm forced to question(in my mind) many points of your lengthy,justification post since you continue to trust the aforementioned bombs. To each his own.If it works for you then it's all good. I'll report on my experiences w/ Bear's block after I receive and use it.

Have a joyous safe and healthy holiday season -

Al

[GB GONE]

Getting burned with the block set-up will be far more easy than beakers or tin pans as well.

Not sure on the change in the block as I just ordered one and started using it, I got what I got. It works though.

Just from a guy who has actually been doing it in a production mode.

Jim

[mark poulson]

This is from someone who has never used a blending block.

Couldn't you stack the multiple molds alternating, left/right/left/right, so the sprue holes don't line up with each other, and eliminate the problem of plastic overflow getting onto the bottom of the blending block, or into the adjacent sprue hole?

You could go down the row of molds, pouring every other one, and then rotate the blending block 180 degrees, and go back up the row and pour the other side.

Edited December 16, 2010 by mark poulson

[GB GONE]

You could do that Mark but more time manipulating molds = plastic cooling. If I hesitate even the slightest bit, I can't get through the full 12oz of plastic (6 on each side).

What I do currently is have every other mold sticking out about the width of the blending block. Works but still requires moving off that stright line of work. Sometimes I have a harder time judging the port that way and then I can't get through the full injectors.

My engineer buddy has some ideas but he is like the MythBuster guys, he might blow my whole shop up prior or during his solution!!!!

Jim

[Frank]

This is from someone who has never used a blending block.

Couldn't you stack the multiple molds alternating, left/right/left/right, so the sprue holes don't line up with each other, and eliminate the problem of plastic overflow getting onto the bottom of the blending block, or into the adjacent sprue hole?

You could go down the row of molds, pouring every other one, and then rotate the blending block 180 degrees, and go back up the row and pour the other side.

Yes you can do that. I have a few 4 cavity molds that are in the middle but I move fast enough to get by. And Jim I thought I was in production mode but you are a master now to get those numbers. Great job. Frank

Edited December 16, 2010 by Frank

[GB GONE]

I have plenty of molds that are multi-cavity now and that helps immensely. When 1 shot gets you 2-4 baits, you can get them knocked out.

When I say short order, I am saying just under 3 hours for around 320 laminate baits. That includes cleaning up the work area also.

I guess I am comparing to my hand pour, split cup where I would have had to do each single cavity. Probaly would take over 5 hours. Multiple cavity molds allow you to crank the baits out.

A master I am not. Working on it, I am. I think YODA said that!!!

Jim

[GB GONE]

PS I am shooting smaller baits or thin baits (except the frogs) so they cool fast as well. I can demold (unclamp the 2 clamps) and start peeling baits out of the molds as soon as I empty the injectors.

Other issue I do hit though is using larger pyrex cups (2 cup and 4 cup), the flake falls faster. Contantly stirring prior to pulling up plastic. Also have a tough time getting the last bit of plastic without getting air...

Jim

spelling...

Edited December 16, 2010 by ghostbaits

[Frank]

PS I am shooting smaller baits or thin baits (except the frogs) so they cool fast as well. I can demold (unclamp the 2 clamps) and start peeling baits out of the molds as soon as I empty the injectors.

Other issue I do hit though is using larger pyrex cups (2 cup and 4 cup), the flake falls faster. Contantly stirring prior to pulling up plastic. Also have a tough time getting the last bit of plastic without getting air...

Jim

spelling...

Getting the last bit without air is a trick in inself. After doing it with more plastic ,when there is less you have to slow down or stop and make more. I can get down to 2 to 3 oz in each but the last injections are slower. Think about it guys that are starting, when you start out with say a half cup of plastic it is actually harder to do than say a full cup. Try it and see. The heat in a cup of plastic stays hotter longer and makes it way easier to shoot laminates.Frank

[GB GONE]

So true Frank. I ready several 2 cup pyrex cups to go into the microwave prior to even starting the process. Rather than try to re-heat after I have used about 13oz, I have another fresh set nuking. I remove all my injector plastic and block plastic to go into the cup I am setting aside with 3oz or less in them. I don't mess with my sprue plastic until I am completely finished with all my runs.

Everybody will get a routine but once you get one and keep doing it, you speed up significantly.

With more molds, the sky will be the limit on laminate baits produced. Never touch the machine but I never thought I would be able to crank this many laminates out so fast and of such high quality.

Jim

[powerworm]

here is some pictures my wife took last year after just 3 hours and 45 minutes with single cavity molds...this was by far our most productive moment but shows single cavity molds can produce great results. we used 6 each of 5 different baits or 30 molds total.

[mark poulson]

You guys are all amazing!

[Romeo D]

here is some pictures my wife took last year after just 3 hours and 45 minutes with single cavity molds...this was by far our most productive moment but shows single cavity molds can produce great results. we used 6 each of 5 different baits or 30 molds total.

Jon, hard to tell from the pictures, are all those laminated? If so, Wow.....