Bear's New Mixing Block

[smallmouthaholic]

Bear’s Blending Block

I injected various molds w/ the new blending block for a hour w/ inconsistent and what I would describe as poor quality laminates. I pre-heated the 2 injectors and blending block in a toaster over to approximately 150 degrees. I was injecting two color tubes only. It seemed difficult to push the plunges down and many tubes were flashed as a result. The plastisol was heated to 350 degrees in a microwave.

I decided to modify the injecting block a bit. The original 2 holes (that enter the mold) in the bottom were @ 11/64 diameter. I drilled these out carefully on a drill press to 7/32 diameter. I also countersunk the ¼” holes that are located @ the bottom of the 5/8 injector ports to funnel the plastisol into the ¼” holes.

I figured this was the deal and set-up to continue w/ the modified mixing block and two-color injecting.. The results were better but I still didn’t have the consistency I was expecting. I went back a read Frank’s 1st post (Ripper Baits) and keyed on the temperature of the injectors, molds and mixing block. The molds, injectors and blocks went into the toaster oven for 10 minutes @ 400 degrees. I removed them and check their temperatures w/ my infrared thermometer. They averaged 759-825 degrees. My hot-melt gloves from Bear have allowed me to handle them without burning my fingers and hands.

Now to inject- I set-up 4- 4 ½” Bear’s, 4 cavity stick worm molds and 12 single cavity tube molds. Eureka- they injected w/ ease and the laminates came out w/ a 95 % perfection rate. The injection block didn’t clog providing I was injecting 1 mold after the other-(12 tube molds and 1 fill of the 2 medium injectors.)Now the stick molds required re-filling the injectors and then the block must be opened and solidified plastic removed. This requires about 3 seconds w/ Bear’s hinged and pull pin designed blending block No clumsy and time consuming wing nuts to fool around with.

I will not use Pyrex cups and 1heated my Borosilicate mixing cups in the micro wave to 360 degrees. This kept the plastic hot in my mixing cups to inject all of the aforementioned molds. I would prefer to have a fixed and ridged assembly for the two injectors but the system works fine once you get used to it.

Edited to add; All of my heating of the plastisol and injected is completed in a exhaust booth so i don't have to breathe the fumes from the hot plastisol.

Edited December 22, 2010 by smallmouthaholic

[TBaits]

"They averaged 759-825 degrees."

In a 400 degree oven for 10 minutes?

[GB GONE]

Thanks for report Al!!! You can see how you will be able to achieve quick and accurate laminate results with a blending block.

I will guess the block may be changed slightly based on your results as it seems in its current configuration it may not be as effective as when modified. Good call on the mod as well.

Great job and thanks again for report!

Jim

[smallmouthaholic]

"They averaged 759-825 degrees."

In a 400 degree oven for 10 minutes?

Sir,

Let me assure my gracious information is spot on and accurate.Do you wish to poke or possibly reconsider and merely say thank you ? Just for additional info ,they were placed in a very small toaster over within 2 1/2" of the upper and lower heating elements.

Edited December 22, 2010 by smallmouthaholic

[smallmouthaholic]

Interesting. I would never have considered heating the injectors and block to more than twice the working temperature of the plastic or heating the plastic to above its normal working temperature. I'ld be afraid of discoloration and burning, but if it works it works.

My own experience with two color injection laminates seems to indicate 1 and 2 cavity molds usually work fine, but my 3 and 4 cavity molds tend to swirl without use of a dividing plate. Even then they often are not consistent. I've found blue painters tape makes a passable dividing plate as long as you clamp the mold firmly.

Thanks for the report on your experimentation.

You're welcome Bob. I too didn't want to heat the mixing block,molds and injectors that warm either but I wasn't getting the consistent,professional results I demanded. I figured if it worked for Frank-why not give it a shot. It made all the difference in the world.

I'll get maybe 1-2 rejects in 16 Stick worms( 4/ 4 cavity molds)

My definition of rejects- laminates that will work fine but cannot be sold due to minor flaws in the continuous laminate from top to bottom.( they go in my tackle box)

That's probably due to uneven injecting pressure and possible variances in the viscosity and temps of each color.I inject stick worms with a 50-50 salt/sand mix in the plastisol. Remember,you have to clean the mixing block when you stop injecting to refill the injectors. This may change and possibly be eliminated once I have my own custom ,2/color (fixed)dual injector w/corresponding mixing block.

[smallmouthaholic]

Thanks for report Al!!! You can see how you will be able to achieve quick and accurate laminate results with a blending block.

I will guess the block may be changed slightly based on your results as it seems in its current configuration it may not be as effective as when modified. Good call on the mod as well.

Great job and thanks again for report!

Jim

Jim,

It's been a long journey to conquer this 2 color injection deal.Posting helpful info ( as you and Frank have) was paramount to my success.I'm more then willing to share info w/ those that have experimented and developed their own successful routine.Experimentation is the key-I must feel the injectors going down w/ the tube molds w/out flashing the bait severely due to un-necessary hand pressure on the injector.That's why I opened up the original 11/64 holes to 7/32. You're pushing hot plastisol from a 5/8 port into a 1/4" path necked down to the original 11/64. That's just too much restriction I.M.O.

[rhahn427]

Sir,

Let me assure my gracious information is spot on and accurate.Do you wish to poke or possibly reconsider and merely say thank you ? Just for additional info ,they were placed in a very small toaster over within 2 1/2" of the upper and lower heating elements.

THanks for the information but I don't believe you are going to pour 325 degree plasticol into something that is hotter than molten lead and not have it burn to a crisp and it heated to 825 degrees in a 400 degree oven ........... that just don't make sense ........ so I guess I'll poke

[GB GONE]

I must feel the injectors going down w/ the tube molds w/out flashing the bait severely due to un-necessary hand pressure on the injector.

This was the hardest thing for me as with one injector it seems easy. With 2, I seemed to loose the feel and push way to hard. Slowly I got there but there are still times when I get a little pressure happy!

Your results and info definitely help move the discussion along for me.

Thanks again for taking the time to post your details.

Jim

spelling.. again

Edited December 22, 2010 by ghostbaits

[smallmouthaholic]

THanks for the information but I don't believe you are going to pour 325 degree plasticol into something that is hotter than molten lead and not have it burn to a crisp and it heated to 825 degrees in a 400 degree oven ........... that just don't make sense ........ so I guess I'll poke

Poke away! The was the outside temp of the blending block- whatever!! Max setting on the oven was 450 unless I wanted to set it on bake. Maybe the setting and thermostat on the in-expensive oven was incorrect but was my infrared thermostat also? At least I have a base point( accurate or not) for future reference to produce consistent ,1st quality laminated baits.I'm pleased / satisfied and so are the customers and that is all that matters.You'll never learn until you try something new.Sometimes what makes sense doesn't work and visa versa. Remember- they claimed the ocean was flat in 1492!

Possibly next time I'll check the inside temp. of the oven w/ my digital Pyrometer . I also have contact probes for the block and injectors. BTW- Frank didn't scorch his baits so possibly you may wish to review his instructional video (Ripper Baits)

[TBaits]

THanks for the information but I don't believe you are going to pour 325 degree plasticol into something that is hotter than molten lead and not have it burn to a crisp and it heated to 825 degrees in a 400 degree oven ........... that just don't make sense ........ so I guess I'll poke

Didn't make sense to me either. Just trying to figure out what I was missing. Didn't know I was going to get a smarta$$ remark back from him.

[TTDuckman]

The melting point of aluminum is 660. The heat source you indicate didn't go above 400. It is physically impossible to have achieved a temperature of 780 degrees.

I have not used Bears blending block although he makes great products. I shoot perfect laminates with the BT blending block without heating the mold, injector, or the block. Heat is the enemy when injecting in my opinion, not the answer.

Tim

[smallmouthaholic]

The melting point of aluminum is 660. The heat source you indicate didn't go above 400. It is physically impossible to have achieved a temperature of 780 degrees.

I have not used Bears blending block although he makes great products. I shoot perfect laminates with the BT blending block without heating the mold, injector, or the block. Heat is the enemy when injecting in my opinion, not the answer.

Tim

The melting point of aluminum is 1220 degrees

[TTDuckman]

I stand corrected on the melting point of aluminum. You correct 1220 F, 660 C.

You are right and I apologize on that point.

On the rest of my point, I still do not see how you are able to achieve 750-825 degrees on your injector and molds. I guess it would almost be like a broiler if they were next to the elements, and I have no idea how hot they get. Maybe I am wrong, it wouldn't be the first time (my wife can give you an extensive list of times), lol.

Do we have an engineer in the house that can answer that?

Tim

[gone2long]

The melting point of aluminum is 660. The heat source you indicate didn't go above 400. It is physically impossible to have achieved a temperature of 780 degrees.

I have not used Bears blending block although he makes great products. I shoot perfect laminates with the BT blending block without heating the mold, injector, or the block. Heat is the enemy when injecting in my opinion, not the answer.

Tim

I would beg to differ, the melting point of alumnium is 1220.58 F and 660.32 C and when it comes to apples and oranges theres a difference!

[TTDuckman]

MrBilky,

Please see above, I admitted to my mistake.

Tim

[smallmouthaholic]

TTDuckman,

I broke out my 21 year old digital pyrometer and put the equipment back in the toaster oven. There is a fine line between broil/bake and 400 degrees. Regardless ,both the upper and lower heating elements glowed for 10 minutes.I could barely hold onto the molds w/ the hot-melt gloves which are good to 450-500 degrees

Pyrometer / Infrared

1- 6oz. injector 275 / 103

2-4 cavity stk mold 285 / 110

3- Blending Block 291 / 107

There is obviously a problem w/ the digital infrared thermometer and I don't believe the pyrometer is accurate either. The infrared thermometer read the palm of my hand @ 97.1 , the pyrometer said it was 87 degrees( should be 98.1)-yet the completely inaccurate temp. reading of the equipment listed above. The pyrometer has not be calibrated in 21 years and therefor I'm sending it back for an up date calibration. The fact that I could feel instant,hot heat through the gloves( which made me release the object ) strongly suggests the temps are in the 450+ degree range .

I didn't intentionally post false data early this morning for the initial readings (which are way off base and totally inaccurate). My bad for which I truly apologize to all who rightfully questioned these ridiculous temperature numbers. A new infrared thermometer will be ordered and hopefully the factory(which is still in business) can calibrate my old Pyrometer.

Again,my humble apologies to rhahn, TBaits and TTDuckman for my inaccurate data posted.

Edited December 23, 2010 by smallmouthaholic

[TBaits]

Whew! Glad you got that figured out because I could not figure out how in the world that could be. Thanks for clearing it up.

[Frank]

Well my reason for making the video was to show that it does work and that the molds dont have to be hot. The temp on the ir gun were to show that the molds were not warm. I know you have a way of injecting and do not want to change. That said how long do you have to wait to get the plastic out of the injectors and the block? I have heated up my injectors before and it just caused me to wait longer to clean out. As you cane see in the video there is almost no time waiting to clean out. And cleaning out the Twin is fast too. I would love to see your way and how long it takes to clean and refill. There is a time counter on the video and have not even looked at it or tried to manipulate it. Seems to me it would take you longer to clean out three parts especially if they are hot. I dont use thick gloves, so I dont loose my sense of touch. But then I do know thin wall injectors get hot real hot and my gloves might be lacking protection. Great mods on the block. Before it came out I told Bear to try and make the passages as large as he can. He had it at 1/4" and were already made. It may not sound like much but in there a little makes a huge differance. As you can see from your results it does. Tell me why you could not do these mods to The Twinjector? Frank

[Frank]

OK I watched my video again and see the temp gun I think you are missing the decimal point. Frank

[smallmouthaholic]

Frank-

I know you have a way of injecting and do not want to change.

This is simply not true. I want consistency in the safest and shortest amount of time possible. I will not have open and heated Pyrex cups emitting noxious plastisol fumes in my shop on a continual basis. I won’t use Pyrex cups period. I don’t believe it’s healthy to breathe hot, PVC vapors. I mentioned in my original post that all heating (in the microwave) and injecting is completed in an enclosed exhaust booth

I believe you injected 2, two cavity molds in your video. I did 12 tube molds and four,4 cavity -4 ½’’ stick molds, cleaning the blending block twice and the injector after all aforementioned molds were injected.. I will and can do more w/1 batch of microwave heated plastic. Just as you did successfully, I’m developing a system for my way also. I have asked Bear to make addendum/accessory parts that will enable me to quickly convert my 2 medium injectors into a fix and stable two color injector w/ a new blending block to my specifications. That will shorten down time even more I.M.O. I do not like manipulating two single injectors into a separate blending block then having to refill each injector separately.

Seems to me it would take you longer to clean out three parts especially if they are hot. That said how long do you have to wait to get the plastic out of the injectors and the block?

The blending block is lightning fast w/the hinged and pull pin. I do it immediately- in 3 seconds. I purged the injectors and then let the pressure pop off the tips after all molds have been injected.. Bear’s injectors stay hotter vs. Kevin’s - hence my recommendation for thinner aluminum on the injector walls.

Tell me why you could not do these mods to The Twin injector?

It was brand new and if I made modifications (good or bad) I owned it. I do not have the audacity to modify a part and then return it to the MFG. claiming in didn’t work and wanted a refund. That’s just not right to do to someone. Agree? It did an excellent job for one or two cavities and then clogged - both the block and injector. I also had Kevin’s single injector and found it too clogged easily compared to Bear’s. I worked w/ both for 5 days before contacting Kevin and spoke directly to him about some recommended changes

1- Narrow the distance between the injectors

2- This would enable him to somewhat straighten/enlarge and reduce/eliminate the angles and travel pathway of the plastic in the blending block

3- Use thinner gauge aluminum for the injectors

Kevin told me to send the injectors back for a prompt refund (which he did) and he would ‘get right- on” the modifications. I never heard from Kevin again and my e-mails /phone messages concerning the changes were never answered. I have nothing against Kevin except he didn’t do what he said he was and wouldn’t return follow-up e-mails and phone calls.

OK I watched my video again and see the temp gun I think you are missing the decimal point. Frank

DUH! I’m completely embarrassed.I ran out of salt and pepper to soften the taste of both of my feet in my mouth on that one for sure! My bad there Frank

This hand injection is a new deal for all of us. There is a big learning curve w/ 2 color injecting, The time frame can be shortened if we share out successes and failures w/ each other. I do not wish to put Kevin against Bear, but the manufacturer who is willing to make constructive changes will get the continued business - injectors CNC custom molds,plastisol and related supplies.

Thank you for keeping the discussion open and have a great holiday season.

Al

[GB GONE]

I ran out of salt and pepper to soften the taste of both of my feet in my mouth on that one for sure!

LOL!!!!

Made me laugh out loud on an otherwise frustrating day at work!!!

Jim

[Frank]

I knew when I posted my video I would get some criticizm on how I did it. And dont mind it but at least I had the guts to do it. But most people here dont have 12 tube molds and four stick molds. That is the reason I do it the way I do it. And many people do too now. The block is lightning fast because it is thick and sucks the heat from the plastic and cools it. Just like Basstackles. I posted before Basstackle has 2 blocks one narrow and one for the twin. My bet is your new one has the same specs as the narrow one from Basstackle. Could you post a pic of your injectors on top of the block. One thing that we have not discussed here is that the plastic you use has a big impact on how easy it is to use one of these units. I have tried some meduim plastic that is hard to get out of a single injector let alone two at the same time. I think your goal is to fill all the molds you have at one time an so is mine but you have more so there is the differance between my way and yours. Glad to see some one is listening to you on the mods. Hope it all works out. Frank

[GB GONE]

Frank... I am using all medium plastic, rarely super soft. I don't have issues. Get it hot and shoot my molds. I think the thicker walled injectors help hold the heat longer and keep my medium liquid long enough to shoot my molds. I am like Al, I'd like to shoot all my set-up molds vs having to keep opening and demolding. Not sure it is faster but it allows me to focus on just that certain part of that task at hand.

Jim

Edited December 23, 2010 by ghostbaits

[smallmouthaholic]

I knew when I posted my video I would get some criticizm on how I did it. And dont mind it but at least I had the guts to do it. But most people here dont have 12 tube molds and four stick molds. That is the reason I do it the way I do it. And many people do too now. The block is lightning fast because it is thick and sucks the heat from the plastic and cools it. Just like Basstackles. I posted before Basstackle has 2 blocks one narrow and one for the twin. My bet is your new one has the same specs as the narrow one from Basstackle. Could you post a pic of your injectors on top of the block. One thing that we have not discussed here is that the plastic you use has a big impact on how easy it is to use one of these units. I have tried some meduim plastic that is hard to get out of a single injector let alone two at the same time. I think your goal is to fill all the molds you have at one time an so is mine but you have more so there is the differance between my way and yours. Glad to see some one is listening to you on the mods. Hope it all works out. Frank

Frank,

Kindly open Kevin's mixing block for the dual injector and take a pic w/ a ruler . I wish to see if any modifications were made.The original had two distinct and sharp angles that i was not fond of for sure. I'll get a pic of the two single injectors on the mixing block later and post it for you. Order some Chemionics medium from Bear's- no smell, very little smoke and is a bit thinner/more flexible then the rest of the medium plastisol brands (3) I have injected.Very little settling in the bottom of the 2 1/2 gallon container that is easily shaken ed up in a minute or two.

Al

P.S. I mentioned the plastisol fumes and Pyrex use for safety reasons,not to criticize your successful method of two color injecting.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-06/961600694.Ch.r.html

[GB GONE]

P.S. I mentioned the plastisol fumes and Pyrex use for safety reasons,not to criticize your successful method of two color injecting.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-06/961600694.Ch.r.html

Does the MSDS for all the plastisol brands mention this? The MSDS should also have the air protection requirement spelled out plainly. I need to go back, find one and read it completely. I think the MSDS may be posted on each distributors site. OSHA REQUIRES that one be delivered at least with the first shipment of the chemical.

Here is link to M-F from their site:M-F MSDS I cannot find one on other distributors sites so may have to go to manufacturers site.

Scary stuff for sure Al!!

Jim

Edited December 23, 2010 by ghostbaits