Repainting Issue

[rjmarlowe]

I have just started repainting some baits and the paint jobs are looking pretty good. That is, until I start the clearcoating process. I am having issues with my paint separating from the bait. I have been using both clear laquer and d2t as clears with the same effect. To my knowledge, I have properly sanded, cleaned, primed, and heat set the paint job before clearing. Again, this is only happening with repainted baits. I must be missing something in the process.

[BobP]

I can't speak to using lacquer but have used D2T on a ton of baits. I think you need to further describe your repainting process to narrow down the problem.

Are we talking plastic or wood baits?

You say you sand the old finish. If wood, do you sand down to raw wood or just lightly sand the old finish?

Do you use a primer or undercoating? If so, what exactly is it?

Do you shoot water based or solvent based paint?

When you say paint is separating, is it coming off in sheets after fishing, or does it delaminate before they ever get wet?

Reading hundreds of TU posts, I think "primers" cause more problems than any other finish component. But you need to get into the details to really isolate and correct finish problems.

[rjmarlowe]

I can't speak to using lacquer but have used D2T on a ton of baits. I think you need to further describe your repainting process to narrow down the problem.

Are we talking plastic or wood baits?

You say you sand the old finish. If wood, do you sand down to raw wood or just lightly sand the old finish?

Do you use a primer or undercoating? If so, what exactly is it?

Do you shoot water based or solvent based paint?

When you say paint is separating, is it coming off in sheets after fishing, or does it delaminate before they ever get wet?

Reading hundreds of TU posts, I think "primers" cause more problems than any other finish component. But you need to get into the details to really isolate and correct finish problems.

Thanks for the follow up. Here are the answers to the best of my knowledge...

I am only having problems with plastic baits. Wooden baits have all come out fine.

I am sanding the baits down just enough to rough up the old finish well. Primarily, I work down until I start seeing some clear plastic.

I have tried a couple of bases but the Createx Opaque White (2 coats) is what I've been using.

Everything I shoot is water based. (I'm a little afraid of anything else right now working indoors)

The paint is delaminating as my clearcoat dries.

I have not had any problems once the clearcoat is finished using either Laquer or D2T.

I hope you can identify my screwups from this. Thanks again.

[RayburnGuy]

I like to sand the baits I'm repainting until all the old paint and finish is removed. This is not something that is required, but is just the way I like to do it. It gives me a smoother surface to paint over and I seem to have fewer problems this way. I also started using Mark Poulson's tip about giving my freshly sanded baits a quick dip in clean acetone. (notice the words quick and clean) This removes any oils that could have been transferred from your hands. Keep the acetone off the bill as even a quick dip can mess with the smooth surface of the bill. You shouldn't handle the bait with bare hands anytime during the painting or clear coating process either. Most folks use hemostats, hobby knife handles or even home made holders made from small clamps and a coat hanger to hold their baits while painting.

[rjmarlowe]

I like to sand the baits I'm repainting until all the old paint and finish is removed. This is not something that is required, but is just the way I like to do it. It gives me a smoother surface to paint over and I seem to have fewer problems this way. I also started using Mark Poulson's tip about giving my freshly sanded baits a quick dip in clean acetone. (notice the words quick and clean) This removes any oils that could have been transferred from your hands. Keep the acetone off the bill as even a quick dip can mess with the smooth surface of the bill. You shouldn't handle the bait with bare hands anytime during the painting or clear coating process either. Most folks use hemostats, hobby knife handles or even home made holders made from small clamps and a coat hanger to hold their baits while painting.

I guess I will start out by sanding down the baits to the plastic and take better care not to touch the bait during the painting process. I am planning on building a bait holder to hold the cranks while I paint them. As of now, I'm just propping them up using hemostats. My biggest obstacle of touching the baits comes when I'm wrapping them with tule for scaling. I guess I will just have to be more careful. I will try the acetone cleaning as well. Thanks.

[BobP]

I've done lots of baits just as you describe with no failures, so the solution doesn't jump out for me. I generally feel that if you can get epoxy on the bait and cured, any paint weaknesses underneath become moot. As long as the epoxy lasts, it's gonna be OK. If it doesn't, nothing underneath it will survive. A little oil from your fingers on the bait? To me, that seems more likely to result in an epoxy fisheye rather than delamination. I'm just spitballing here, but wonder how much heat you apply when you heat cure the paint? I use a hair dryer and hit it just long enough to dry the previous paint layer before shooting the next. If you hit it hard enough to make the bait expand, that would recreate your problem.

[Musky Glenn]

This may not apply to your problem, but here goes. We used to have a lot of trouble putting new lacquer over an unknown original finished piece of furniture. Lacquer that we used is not water based and it would quickly "wrinkle" the original finish. The original finish would be softened and could be scraped off easily in some spots. I would not think lacquer is compatible with water based paints. It had a lot to do with how wet the first coat of lacquer was applied. If it was thin enough to dry very quickly, few problems. But if the first coat was wet, then it took longer to tack off and the wrinkling happened more often. This was furniture quality lacquers we were dealing with. Maybe this will help. I'm sure someone on here has more experience with this problem than me. Musky Glenn

[Vodkaman]

A lot of builders use a rattle can spray paint for the first/primer coat. The solvents present will 'etch' into the plastic and improve the adhesion, which seems to be your problem. You will have to leave these to gas off for 24 hours or you will end up with another set of problems. I only do wooden baits, so I could be way off base here.

I also remember reading about a 'tack coat' primer, I think Rookie mentioned it.

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/17107-auto-air-waterbased-adhesion-issue/ This is the thread I was thinking about.

Dave

Edited January 5, 2011 by Vodkaman

[Rowhunter]

Vodkaman has your answer. White paint is not a suitable adhesion promoting primer.

Douglas

[rjmarlowe]

Thanks for the replies. I started off yesterday by sanding my baits all the way down instead of partially. I also performed the acetone dip and tried to avoid touching the bait. Finally, I monitored my heat better and tried to take my time rather than heating too much too fast. I'm not sure which of these helped or if I just got lucky but all 5 baits cleared out fine as of this morning. No cracking or delamination to speak of. I was very happy since I was trying my hand at my first craw pattern which I will post pics of in another post. Maybe I've fixed my problem, maybe not. Too early to tell but the initial results are positive. Thanks guys.