FuzzyGrub Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Last season I made some 1 piece resin and water cured rtv molds with info provided by TU. This season I added 1 and 2 piece POP, 2 piece resin, and soon some 1 piece alumilite. I did my 1st test pour on the 2 piece POP last night. The horny toad type mold poured well, with one frog good, and the other with just a small (last tip) of leg missing. The 3" senko type poured well, with only minor flash on two of them. I think both can be corrected with just a little touch-up work. The top to my 2 piece resin wasn't successful on 1st try. Too much petro jelly was used for seperation and ruined it. I should be able to repour this weekend. The alumilite should be here so will probably pour my 1st with that on the weekend, as well. Thanks for all the tutorials and info provided by the TU members. I'm heavily addicted now. Edited January 6, 2011 by FuzzyGrub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Last season I made some 1 piece resin and water cured rtv molds with info provided by TU. This season I added 1 and 2 piece POP, 2 piece resin, and soon some 1 piece alumilite. I did my 1st test pour on the 2 piece POP last night. The horny toad type mold poured well, with one frog good, and the other with just a small (last tip) of leg missing. The 3" senko type poured well, with only minor flash on two of them. I think both can be corrected with just a little touch-up work. The top to my 2 piece resin wasn't successful on 1st try. Too much petro jelly was used for seperation and ruined it. I should be able to repour this weekend. The alumilite should be here so will probably pour my 1st with that on the weekend, as well. Thanks for all the tutorials and info provided by the TU members. I'm heavily addicted now. Why even spend the $ and time for less then perfect molds when precision,CNC injection molds are available and affordable? They save money in the long run for sure. I've personally made 60 + custom RTV molds over the years and would not do it again for all the tea in China! You just can't get the consistency and ease of a CNC injection mold .I've sold 90% of my old RTV molds for a fraction of what they cost to make. It was fun but cost mucho $. Trimming the flashes and over pours of finished hand-pours is not my idea of entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Trimming the flashes and over pours of finished hand-pours is not my idea of entertainment. I still hand pour everyday and might trim 1 bait out of 100. Hand pouring is an effective way of making great baits regardless of the availability of hand injection. I can again challenge anyone to make high quality Aaron's Magic or the variety of 3 color pours out there with a hand injection system consistently. I also have over 200 pop and resin molds that I use routinely. POP is inexpensive. Resin is inexpensive. Alumulite not as inexpensive. I like being able to create both with hand injection and hand pouring. As more move to hand injection, I hope the price of hand pours rebounds as it seems to doing due to the limited supply out there. They both have advantages for sure and to each his own. I can just tell you this though, the cost of 10 (1) CNC injection cavity molds @ roughly $50 each is $500. If you sell baits and get $5.00 a bag (most can't get this price), you still must sell 100 bags to break even, not including the injector, etc. 10 (1) cavity pop molds might cost $5.00. At the same price per bag, you are even on the first round. If you don't sell, then you eat the costs. For many that are just in this for the hobby, molds other than aluminum make sense. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) I still hand pour everyday and might trim 1 bait out of 100. Hand pouring is an effective way of making great baits regardless of the availability of hand injection. I can again challenge anyone to make high quality Aaron's Magic or the variety of 3 color pours out there with a hand injection system consistently. I also have over 200 pop and resin molds that I use routinely. POP is inexpensive. Resin is inexpensive. Alumulite not as inexpensive. I like being able to create both with hand injection and hand pouring. As more move to hand injection, I hope the price of hand pours rebounds as it seems to doing due to the limited supply out there. They both have advantages for sure and to each his own. I can just tell you this though, the cost of 10 (1) CNC injection cavity molds @ roughly $50 each is $500. If you sell baits and get $5.00 a bag (most can't get this price), you still must sell 100 bags to break even, not including the injector, etc. 10 (1) cavity pop molds might cost $5.00. At the same price per bag, you are even on the first round. If you don't sell, then you eat the costs. For many that are just in this for the hobby, molds other than aluminum make sense. Jim Jim , If I want Aaron's magic I'll call Robo Worm or his distributor and buy them wholesale-or a retail outlet and purchase them-plain and simple.Trying to duplicate fancy tri-colors for profit or what ever is a waste of time I.M.O.- unless you're one of the big boys set-up w/ custom injection machines costing 6 figures. You act like Aaron's magic is the end all,cure all bait - Please!Let's not take this any further BTW- you'll sell more one color baits and make a better profit vs. two and three color baits. Like we exchanged in our prior views on this subject before-drop your POP mold on the floor and it's game over. More down time making new ones- time is money my friend and I speak from 30 years in the contracting business w/ 5-10 employees. BTW- one of my customers in Ca. is personal friends w/ the owner of Robo Worm and gets many of them for free! He asked if I wanted some Aaron's magic and I politely said no thank you . They may work some of the time but I've learned through experience that watermelon and green pumpkin outsells all other colors nation wide. Long term-you can't beat CNC for precision, proficiency and durability. Edited for spelling Edited January 6, 2011 by smallmouthaholic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyGrub Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Why even spend the $ and time for less then perfect molds when precision,CNC injection molds are available and affordable? They save money in the long run for sure. I've personally made 60 + custom RTV molds over the years and would not do it again for all the tea in China! You just can't get the consistency and ease of a CNC injection mold .I've sold 90% of my old RTV molds for a fraction of what they cost to make. It was fun but cost mucho $. Trimming the flashes and over pours of finished hand-pours is not my idea of entertainment. This is a hobby for me, with no plans to EVER go into selling anything. Any volume over personel, family, and friends consumption, would become WORK, and would quickly loose its apeal. I do have some CNC pour and injection molds, and will slowly grow them. Modifying, or creating a new design CNC molds, or paying for that service, is not in the plan. POP, resin, and RTV are what is affordable for my hobby and expeirmentation level. I would think you would be proto-typing a bait with these, tuning and testing, before going to CNC, no? PS: Sorry that I missed your fire sales on your old molds! Let me know if you still have some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 . I would think you would be proto-typing a bait with these, tuning and testing, before going to CNC, no? I did that years ago. A good CNC machinist can take your custom ideas and put them into reality from a basic design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I just used Aaron's magic as an example, it is far from the best color out there for sure but if I have a customer that wants 1000 3 color baits, I certainly don't tell him to call Roboworm. I pour them up. I have always been about custom stuff that others won't/can't do. Gotta have something that seperates you from the others that are all pushing down a plunger. That is what makes business go around in my book. From the hobbyist stand point, it was a challenge to me to be able to pour 3 or 4 color baits like the photos I saw in the Gallery when I started on TU in 2004. Hats off to Nova and Chris (Al's Worms) for what they showed off. What about swimbaits? One bait is worth $5-$10 easy in a 3 color pour. Well worth it in my book. Single colored swimbaits will barely even sell. Guess we agree to disagree as I am all for making and testing out new baits with a cheaper alternative than aluminum. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyGrub Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I did that years ago. A good CNC machinist can take your custom ideas and put them into reality from a basic design. OK, from paper design direct to CNC, I'm surprised. I could see it once you got to the shape you want, but designing something "new" and determining how it will move through the water and what action would be provided, I would have thought was all of proto-type testing. I would have expected a few iterations on something new, that the cost of all the proto-type CNC would be high for small, niche bait companies. I assume you are using some simulation S/W with CAD to design then? or maybe you are just doing minor changes to existing design? If that is cost effective, works and is successful for you, that is great. At my stage, if I had to pay myself minimum wage, this hobby would be bankrupt! Even keeping some semblance that the materials cost is less that buying off the shelf, is just to keep the wife happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Guess we agree to disagree as I am all for making and testing out new baits with a cheaper alternative than aluminum. Jim Jim, Just ask yourself why the business models of Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's are so successful. They don't pour their own baits- Again- Precision,Proficiency&Durability PP&D = CNC Aluminum Injection Molds Granted ,the California boys w/ their x-laminated swim baits have it down to a science and are well established. That's their niche-not mine for sure.If I wanted to sell them and make money,I'd buy them wholesale and sell them retail for a 20+% mark-up. I'd waste more time and money trying to emulate them for sure. It's always exciting disagreeing w/you- Happy New Year! Al Hopefully,I'll be introducing an injected swim -bait for river smallmouth bass in a couple of months. They'll have a max of 2 colors and the single colors will sell just as well. You see,smallmouth seek faster moving water during summer time and the bait color only has to be close w/ size and action most important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I think their is something regal about having an idea, whittling something in wood, making a mold and casting a few for the overwhelming approval of our scaly friends. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) I guess that the whole thing is not about the money really to me. I like the ability to create baits and colors that are not out there or can't be created by others. I also like to be able to sell 4 baits for $7 instead of a bag of 12 for $3-$4. My business model tells me it takes a shorter time to do 4 than 12 and I make $3 to $4 more each time. And yes, my small swims that I sell in Canada, all 50 states and France, Sweden and other countries are made from pop molds because the small baits are not as durable hollow or with a hook slot. So I made my own. (for free) Jim addtl info Edited January 6, 2011 by ghostbaits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBaits Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 That's part of the deal, not all of us sell the baits. If you are pouring for your own, then POP is a great way to use all kinds of baits and copy and make the colors in a specific bait that you want. I have POP molds of baits I have copied because I couldn't find the right color in the store anymore, plus I can make a ton of them! I do inject and have several CNC molds, but still have several POP molds that I really like. It's not about making money to all of us. Like others have said, if it starts to be work, I won't enjoy it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 The other issue with the hobbyist or pour for money guy is when you realize that the mold you have you don't want anymore. As you can see from every single CNC mold maker's molds out there, you don't get a big return on your money. I can/have bought aluminum CNC molds (1 piece and 2) at 50% off and more from all manufacturers in recent months. It is a lot easier to set aside a pop or resin mold in the shop than give half (or more) of your investment away when you (or your customers or the fish) decide it is time to change things up. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 PS: Sorry that I missed your fire sales on your old molds! Let me know if you still have some. I'm not Thanks again Al! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
