steve187 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 OK, today I began a new experience. I poured my first jigs. Much to learn. I read the entire sticky about fluxing but still don't really understand it or know how to tell what is or isn't happening when I do or don't flux. My primary concern this evening is related to the outer surface texture of my jigs. I thought they could have been smoother. Since I am such a newbie in all departments I don't even know how much of this will cover/hide with paint. Do the cavities sometimes need to be finely polished or am I just being overly concerned ? If polishing is in order do I do this myself of have it done by a more understanding professional? I can say that I poured a couple hundred jigs with fairly good success. Learned a lot today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cz75b Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) It would be interesting to see a picture but without that.....fluxing, learn how to do it, its easy and cleans and blends your alloy. Marvelux is an easy flux, the alloy has to be hot and for Marvelux, it melts when you add to the top of the melt. With a spoon, mix the melted flux into the alloy and you will see it turn black and do a couple of things, remove any impurities by attaching to them and floating them out and really mixing the alloy components (lead, tin, antimony) into a true solution rather than a mechanical mix. When you remove the used flux after stiring, your melt will look clean, and depending on the alloy (wheelweight, pure lead or linotype for example) will look like the surface of a mirror, linotype being the shiniest. If you mold is not clean of oil, you will get a rough or incomplete casting. If you mold is cold, same deal. You need a clean and hot mold to cast nicer jigs, a mold release helps a great deal too but you have to apply the release to a clean mold. Clean and hot for both the alloy and mold and your quality will be better. Paint can hide some roughness, especially powderpaint. But really, the fish don't care. Find a cast bullet list and see what the bullet guys talk about as far as alloys and fluxing to learn more about the various lead alloys and how to cast quality items. Good luck, and be safe, gloves and eye protection and keep water away from molten lead. Edited January 7, 2011 by cz75b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Do-it molds which most of us use have "orange peel" cavity surfaces, the only smooth cavities I've seen are on machined custom or modified molds. Arguably, a ruffer surface jig head might adhere paint better and look more natural. Interesting, I wasn't aware that fluxing affects the intermetallic bonds of a casting alloy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLT Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Don't worry, unless it's major casting issues, a good powder coating will make it look really smooth. Now if your talking the major "ripple" issues, that is a different story. With out a better understanding of what is happening, that is the best I can offer you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Steve, Alot of excellent information here. Like Hawn said, the only really smooth surface on jigs you're going to get is from a machined surface. All of Do-It mold are cast. So slight imperfections will be in the cavities. However like mentioned here powder paint will cover all of that. Unless you have a cavity that has a protrusion in it. I have a football jig mold, that everytime I poured the 1/2 oz cavity, a small gouge was on every jig in the same spot. I looked ihto the cavity and sure enough you can see the small protrusion in the cavity. With something like that you can take some jewelers rouge and a rubber pad and polish it out. I did and with the protrusion gone the jig now looks perfect. I also think like Hawn mentioned a rougher surfac gives for better paint grip. Don't sweat the little stuff, unless you are getting crevasses in your jigs from cold pours or stopping and starting a pour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkseyes Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 dO-IT mold do look like a cast tool but the cavities look like edm or sand blast finish. My buddies think I'm over doing it on my jigs but I polish my jig heads to remove gate sink and flash from parting lines. I use a brass brush on rotary tool. It gives the jig a smother finish that after powder coating looks like it already has a clear coat. I haven't had a chipping problem that i have noticed yet. One reason I polish my jigs is my football jig mold makes 4 different jigs. I have to trim off the parts I don't use for the different jigs. By no means is this a production mold but by spending time on trimming I didn't have to buy 2 more molds. Hawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have also noticed that the surface on some of my jigs is a bit rougher than I would like. as Cadman said, this is usually covered up by powder paint. However, I have also had a few that are a bit rougher than usual. i am thinking of polishing the inside of the mold cavity with my Dremel. Has anyone ever tried this? Does it work? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkseyes Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I have also noticed that the surface on some of my jigs is a bit rougher than I would like. as Cadman said, this is usually covered up by powder paint. However, I have also had a few that are a bit rougher than usual. i am thinking of polishing the inside of the mold cavity with my Dremel. Has anyone ever tried this? Does it work? Pete I polish and hand work mold for a living so know a little about it. You can polish aluminum but you have to be careful because its so soft you can take to much stock out real easy. You have to watch your parting lines so you don't change there location. If you do you will have to fix flash on jigs. What are you looking to fix? Its easy to polish lead jigs if its just a better finish your looking for. Hawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 dO-IT mold do look like a cast tool but the cavities look like edm or sand blast finish. My buddies think I'm over doing it on my jigs but I polish my jig heads to remove gate sink and flash from parting lines. I use a brass brush on rotary tool. It gives the jig a smother finish that after powder coating looks like it already has a clear coat. I haven't had a chipping problem that i have noticed yet. One reason I polish my jigs is my football jig mold makes 4 different jigs. I have to trim off the parts I don't use for the different jigs. By no means is this a production mold but by spending time on trimming I didn't have to buy 2 more molds. Hawk Hawk, I don't know if you would consider this polishing, but I do something similar. Every one of my jigs and I mean every one of them I take and clean off the sprue marks, parting lines and any other imperfections. I use a bastard cut file which makes quick work of this. This may be too anal for some but I will not sell a jig that has these marks on them. Nothing personal aginst anyone as the fish don't care. However I belong to a fishing club, and there is a guy that sells jigs. He powder paints right over the sprue marks and all. To me they look crappy. With that said many guys tell me how beautiful my jigs come out. It's all in the prep work. Is it worth the time to do all of this. To me, yes it is. I don't like buying crap that's why I got into making jigs in the first place. Keep up the good work. I have also noticed that the surface on some of my jigs is a bit rougher than I would like. as Cadman said, this is usually covered up by powder paint. However, I have also had a few that are a bit rougher than usual. i am thinking of polishing the inside of the mold cavity with my Dremel. Has anyone ever tried this? Does it work? Pete Pete, Pete, as I mentiond above yes it does work. There are different types of pastes and grits you can use to achieve this. These are used in polishing anything from copper, steel, brass to alum. The grittier the paste the faster it will cut. Naturally you don't want to start with a high lustre finishing paste, as you will be polishing all day. But you can look up on the i-net for polishing compounds and you will see what I mean. Also dremel speed will have a big effect on this as well. Naturally the higher the speed the faster it will cut, but also you can burn into the cavity. It will be a lot of trial and error, but it is not complicated. It's not like you're polishing a bezel on a watch face. Realistically, unless you get bad marks on your jigs, I would leave it alone. Let us know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Cadman, Thanks. I interpreted your mention of a small protusion to be much more than I am dealing with. I am talking about a surface that is just a bit rougher than on some of my other jigs. It can be smoothed out with an extra coat of paint, but then I would have a bit too much paint on the head. I have some buffing compound and I will use that to smooth out the mold cavity. I will keep you posted. Pete Pete, Pete, as I mentiond above yes it does work. There are different types of pastes and grits you can use to achieve this. These are used in polishing anything from copper, steel, brass to alum. The grittier the paste the faster it will cut. Naturally you don't want to start with a high lustre finishing paste, as you will be polishing all day. But you can look up on the i-net for polishing compounds and you will see what I mean. Also dremel speed will have a big effect on this as well. Naturally the higher the speed the faster it will cut, but also you can burn into the cavity. It will be a lot of trial and error, but it is not complicated. It's not like you're polishing a bezel on a watch face. Realistically, unless you get bad marks on your jigs, I would leave it alone. Let us know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkseyes Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 If all you need is to take a out little ruff spots just use 600 grit sand paper. Use a paper that you can use wet and use kerosene to keep the paper from loading up. cut it in small pieces and use a small stick to control your polishing to keep off parting line. Hawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Quote "cadman" 'but also you can burn into the cavity'... Yup, I did so with my first Dremel cavity mod and managed to create locked castings. So, now I prefer manual - I've found that ball or cylinder cutter Dremel bits held by pin vises are more controllable and cut aluminum efficiently adjustable by amount of hand pressure exerted. Messing with cavity surfaces can affect proper melt flow, so I only mod if necessary to address a functional problem like sticking castings in some Do-its. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve187 Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hey everybody, thanks a bunch for all the responses. That is great. It informed me much more and some of the comments here confirmed some of my musings. I spent the day painting and as a result I got some more education. LOL ! Yes the powder does cover a bunch but I also found myself doing some minor touch up filing on some pieces while waiting on the cure for others. I too want them to look as nice as possible. I appreciate the heads up regarding the concern on polishing cavity. I certainly don't want to create flash problems. A few of mine had a very small imperfect cavity or hole in the top of the ball head. Not sure how that happened. I'm getting there , slowly. I appreciate you guys on here chiming in on different threads. It has encouraged me to continue forth and I am enjoying this. Thanks Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Steve, Glad everything is working out. Join the nuthouse. Pretty soon you too will be dreaming about beautiful jigs and buying more molds and so on and so on. Edited January 7, 2011 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 The worst inperfection I get is wrinkles and that is from the mold not being hot enough of the lead or both. I use a small file to smooth the sprue area and clean up the parting lines so that there is nothing showing after the paint job. The little bit of "orange peel" doesn't come through the paint and I'm a believer that it helps hold paint, when I used to use vinyl I had to be careful with thinning it because it would run even on a little rougher surface so I could only imagine what it would be like on a super smooth surface but it's all in the past as I only use powder now. Good luck on your hooby, its fun and addictive!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Re: persistent repetitive flaws like holes in castings: I had a Do-it Walleye Jig mold that used to have a high percentage of bubble voids(holes) at the sprue break which required max purity soft lead to avoid, tho never 100% successfully. Changed to another mold and problem gone. Have another Do-it Trolling Sinker mold which 3/4 oz. size will always leave a nasty bubble void between sprue and sinker eye poured with harder lead. Tried smoothing the cavity surface to no avail. Same fix, got another mold. Been said before, every mold even the same model will pour differently, and it may be possible to get a lemon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
